To Share or Not to Share?

[redpepper]

thank you NYCindie, I was waiting for someone to use the word "empathy"... I would add "compassion" and "consideration" to that... Mono likes to use "extended consideration" when it comes to poly dynamics as metamour love is sometimes the make or break of a dynamic...

To me, "empathy" is a bit different than doing "unto others as you would have them do unto you." It revolves around thinking how you would feel in the situation rather than doing what YOU would like or do in the situation. It takes the "I" "me" and "self" out of it for me and looks at it from "they" "we" and "us" instead. This to me is what builds strong community, strengthens communication, builds trust and quite frankly is what I think will be the only way to end wars, create peace and save our planet... just saying.

[Minxxa]

I liked that humanistic version NYCINDIE... thanks.

I agree empathy is totally important. But I'm realizing that different people have differing abilities to be empathetic. My hubs is not empathetic. At all. He can listen to what I say, and see how I'm feeling, but he doesn't "get" why, doesn't really understand, and cannot put himself in my position. I spent 10 years not understanding that. So for him, it's important for him to communicate with me and for me to lay it down exactly what's going on and what I need. I don't (can't) expect him to understand me, or know how I feel. But I can expect him to respect that I do feel that way, and for us to do things to correct whatever situation's going on.

If you take the I and me out of it, then you risk treating someone in a specific manner because that to you is respectful and empathetic and helpful, and having that be NOT what they want or need. Maybe that's just my specific experience in life (very possible), but what I want and need is not anything like what hubs wants and needs, and until we sat down and talked and communicated that we didn't know. We both thought we were treating the other one well-- and it was OUR definition of well, not the other person's-- and so we both felt not taken care of and misunderstood a lot of the time. Very frustrating experience.

What I learned from that was not to treat hubs like I would want... but to ask him what he would like in any given situation. I learned not to expect him to "understand" my feelings, but to listen and to work with me (if needed-- sometimes it's all me I just need him to hear it).

I'm really empathetic so it took me... um... 43 years to figure out not everybody is! Hubs and I had an argument (minor) the other night because he doesn't think it is possible to really "understand' someone's feelings unless you've experienced the very exact same thing. :-/ I had to explain to him that I got it that HE can't do that, but many people can. Just because he doesn't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But he really really doesn't understand that ability at all. Even his GF agreed with him that he doesn't have empathy. What he does have is the ability to accept people for who they are, listen to what they're saying, and to adjust to what they need. But you have to tell him straight up what that is.

[serialmonogamist]

Originally Posted by Minxxa

Hubs and I had an argument (minor) the other night because he doesn't think it is possible to really "understand' someone's feelings unless you've experienced the very exact same thing. :-/ I had to explain to him that I got it that HE can't do that, but many people can. Just because he doesn't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But he really really doesn't understand that ability at all. Even his GF agreed with him that he doesn't have empathy. What he does have is the ability to accept people for who they are, listen to what they're saying, and to adjust to what they need. But you have to tell him straight up what that is.

People learn to block various kinds of empathy for different reasons. The kinds of empathy that your hubs blocks may be something whose emotional effects you have learned to manage but he hasn't. Likewise, he may be able to empathize with some other kind of experience that you would resist. Personally, I have found that some women have trouble empathizing with the fatherly feelings of male authority figures. I think this is because they have devoted so much energy to liberating themselves from the feelings of oppression they get from dealing with such men that they develop a resistance to understanding such men's positions and what they're feeling when they are pursuing paternalistic goals. The same woman could easily identify with a mother's struggle with her children or with a partner but when it comes to understanding/empathizing with a paternalistic man, she'll shoot into opposition or just glaze over. Please note, I am not generalizing but just talking about something I've noticed in a few people.

[Dirtclustit]

and not too many things bother me more than others sharing about my private life with others. But in the situation of shared lovers I don't consider it a problem unless of course the other lover fails to keep that private information to their self. I strongly believe in full disclosure, without details, mostly because I have only met a few people that know what they're talking about when it comes to sexually transmitted diseases. If a girl friend of mine had vaginal sex with a condom, but let him penetrate her ass without one that is definitely something I want disclosed as keeping such info from another sexual partner is flat out irresponsible.

And only because there are some people who are ignorant enough or do not fully comprehend the concept of honesty, might get confused and after intercourse with a man that involved wearing a condom for vaginal penetration but no condom for anal and describe such an interaction as "safe sex" I need to know where the penetration was if any and whether or not there was a latex barrier at all times. I don't care if their partner was the worst or best lover they had ever had, but to me their is a difference between intercourse where a condom is worn at all times and sex where insertion and the first thrusts (ie: the latter should be stated as sex with a condom, however the sex didn't start with one )

I realize that everybody tells white lies or stretches the truth here and there, but when it comes to sex and people and care about everything regarding risks of contracting a disease is black and white for me. Full disclosure and definitions of exactly what constitutes safe sex is doctrine to me. People who do not share my views I have no time for in my life.

I know it sounds stupid, but I have been dumbfounded by people's idea of full disclosure and I as a result of having too large discrepancies in too many important words (such as "safe sex") I am no longer friends with those people, but I do not talk smack about them

I am very private but very understanding of the fact that people have some pretty freaky kinks, to the point where I don't mind sharing details about my life when I know that said details are not going to go any further nor will they be mentioned even anonymously because you'd be surprised how identifiable details are even when anonymous. They are esp identifiable to parties who participated, which evidently is a hard concept to understand for some third parties who were not present.

I realize that some people may not share my views and I have absolutely no rightful place in telling anybody what they can or can't do. I also realize I cannot hold other people responsible for my views on what constitutes sexual health and I cannot hold people responsible when they are not completely honest, esp when I am not the one engaging in sex acts but rather our link is just a person in common. However I do expect my partners to be not be naive and I do not take kindly to people who put me at risk. I have absolutely no respect for anyone that knowingly puts others at risk and does not disclose that they did so. Again I would never talk smack about such a person but actions like those are sure fire ways to immediately lose my respect.

Trust with me is huge, but at the same time so is being respectful of privacy. My views in regards to distinguishing right from wrong in matters of trust and privacy are for the most part set in stone. They are part of my core values and don't really offer any situational leeway or gray areas which for me means most if not all matters are either black or white.

[Anneintherain]

This has been an interesting read...I'm sure I read it last year - but since it got bumped I'm going to respond.

If a metamour is not my friend, I might not want to share with them things I would share with my friends. I DO talk about sex with my closest friends sometimes, but don't tell partner A what is going on with partner B or vice versa since I have not asked if they mind. I am curious about stuff that goes on with my lover's partners but unless I have been told otherwise it is NONE OF MY BUSINESS. It may be a shared partner, but that doesn't mean I'm in some hive mind. I don't expect what happens in the bedroom must be public domain just because everyone spends time with the same penis. I don't see a difference in a partner giving their other partners a play by play of our last date and them posting it on a forum frankly, neither is fine with me unless I've said it is.

If a metamour is not my friend, I don't imagine they want me privy to what they do when naked, unless they are doing it where I can see. I can only imagine the response I'd get if I started asking my bf for details of his sex life with his wife after she made it clear she thinks I'm a fine person but doesn't want anything to do with me... If somebody I date (including my husband Adam) starts sharing stuff with me that involves a third party, I do check in to make sure the other party is OK with it, and has been informed that it's going to be shared knowledge.

I am not ashamed of sex, but that just means I'm fine with metamours knowing I like sex, or I am noisy and worry the cops will get called on me some day - things that give a big picture idea of who I am as a lover for their partner, but not the details. It doesn't mean I want them to know that last night we did ________ or that I worked up my courage to ask their boyfriend or husband to do ______ to me and I loved/hated it. (Exception - if I brought up a subject that was new or had to be negotiated with a metamour - sex at an event, group sex, whatever - then I would expect it would be discussed.)

I know there are differences between people, I've had metamours that would not want me to know a damn thing about their sex lives, and ones who are turned on by the idea of their sex life being discussed with me and hopefully becoming wank fodder - but unless the other person tells me which one is its, I still file it under NOMB. I do not see how it benefits my life to know things that somebody else wants to keep private as long as it does not break any agreements I have with whichever partner, but I do see how it hurts somebody if I insist on having a right to know things that somebody else doesn't want me to know.

I think a lot of the people piping up for "of course you should be able to share" mean to share sexual successes and joys, but that can be conveyed with "I had a great time last night" and a big grin. I am ALL for sharing if all parties agree, but not sharing is not dishonest. If I get a bruise from one partner and another says "what happened?" I will say if it's from whatever general thing it was from, sex, elbows, biting, cats landing from space - but that doesn't mean it's secretive or shameful if somebody doesn't want me to know they have the most amazing orgasm if they get their nipples stimulated just like this, or that the last 20 times in a row they've done it in the missionary position cause it's easier on their low back... Really, different people do have different comfort levels, and I think that all parties involved should get a say in how information is shared in multi partner dynamics.

[Fiona]

Pretty much just nodding along in agreement with Anneintherain. My husband and I (and my partner and I) discuss safer sex practices and that sort of thing, but I don't want or need details of their sexual encounters.

[jones]

Originally Posted by Fayerweather

My bf, his gf and I recently got together for a "family meeting". There were some issues we were all having and we wanted to sit down and talk them out, and hopefully come up with some solutions/clear the air.

It went really well, but there was a particular problem that came up and I wanted to find out if any of you have had similar problems and how you dealt with them.

My bf's gf is a very private person and new to polyamory. She said that it made her feel unsafe and insecure to have my bf and I discuss his sex life with her when we were alone together. She said it made her feel excluded and she wanted to keep their sex life private.

To me, being able to ask my bf about his sex practices with other partners is essential to my feelings of security and safety. Also, I enjoy hearing about new and exciting things he is doing sexually. I was triggered by the thought of not being able to find out what I need to feel secure, and had a lot of trouble communicating that to her.

In the end, we worked out an agreement that if they did anything new in bed, that either he would ask her permission before telling me, or that she would tell me herself. Also, I would work on asking her directly about what they were doing (which made me uncomfortable, but I promised I would try.

Have any of you had issues with full disclosure? How did you deal with that?

I would say although I understand finding your partner's sex life exciting, I know I found it exciting with G's lovers however I will give my life atm, I am seeing A, we have sex most of the times but we also go out on dates etc I always tell G that we have had sex and he doesn't ask what we do, I don't explore anything than the norm with A where as me and G do but if I did explore something different or wanted to like fluid bonding or anal I would talk to him so I am saying if she wants to keep what she does with him private then I would respect that.

[Witch]

I like how this thread went from talking about sexual privacy to whole theories on sexual shame versus sexual privacy.

I hate it when my husband shouts out to his friend while we are all in the apartment "I DID THIS WITH MY WIFE"

His friends' girlfriend and I look at each other.. like ....."Omg... DId he really just go there."

I'm not ashamed about the sexual practices I do with my husband(the sexual practice in question in fact is something our couple friends do too.)

However, its more intimate when its kept private I think. I like it that way. Its something "we" share and not any one else. Now say my husband has another partner and they practice the EXACT SAME SEXUAL PRACTICES, if either my husband or his lover don't want me to know, then thats their business.

Its like the whole argument about anti gay groups going EWW WHAT YOUDO IN BED IS GROSS. You can't say thats sexual shame, thats straight(mostly religious people) acting like five year olds. Thats what makes my husband straight, the idea of having sex with a man completely does the opposite of arousing him. No shame in that, just not for him. So you can't link a need for sexual privacy with sexual shame 100% of the time.

I don't think the GF in question doesn't want you to know because she is ashamed with what she does, but because honestly... when it comes down to it. Its none of your business, if they choose to make it your business then okay, it becomes your business. I believe you have certain rights as a human being and having sexual privacy is one of them. The only thing I think multiple partners have a right to know about sexual matters with other parties is if it directly affects them, such as with safer sex. Do you use condoms or not? And thats about it.

The GF has a total right to her privacy.

Here's another analogy. A long time ago when we had our first roommate. The room mate did not have a computer and asked to use my husbands in the time being to help look for a job. He was fine with it, until he was leaving the house. He honestly didn't want her using it while he wasn't around. He wouldn't give her the password so she could get into it whenever she wanted. The same roommate also used my lotions, shampoo, and body wash when I didn't know. Said certain items were things I used VERYLITTLE, cause they were SPECIAL items I bought to pamper myself with, they weren't my normal shampoo and body washing items. However she seemed to have this thought, that because we were roommates, she should be allowed to use whatever was in the house WHENEVER, cause she would let us do the same with her stuff.

Can you see where thats wrong? My stuff is MY STUFF. No it doesn't hurt it much if you use it, but its STILL MY STUFF. Just because YOU have a way of thinking about the usage of it doesn't mean I have to be the same way. It's my stuff... It's my thoughts..

Its my... SEXUAL PRIVACY... NOT YOURS... The End.



PS: Said roommate lasted less than a year because of said problems... I think the same thing could reign true for your relationship if you're not more considerate of her needs as well.