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Old 11-02-2012, 01:50 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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And it definitely does not help that when John came home and I told him how upset and angry I feel right now so that he would know where my head is at, that his first reaction was to defend Sarah. Without even seeing the text conversation. Because it doesn't seem to matter that her feelings of resentment toward me are completely unreasonable. I asked her why she was mad at me, and she gave me an answer, so John and Sarah think it should just end there.
orange = lydia fear she is not primary / need to be primary / looking for primary reassure

green = John speaking to fear of losing sarah

bold = avoid relationship talk by cel phone text.

orange = when are feelings logical? Stop trying to get reassure from John by asking him to minimize or invalidate Sarah feelings. So you can feel triumphant like "Ha! See! She sucks!" Why are you asking for your reassure to come out of John's hide? Asking him to tell you his other Sweetie sucks? Is this kindness to John? Kindness to Sarah? Does this help him get over his fear? You say you won't ask him to give Sarah up but your behavior perpetuates a climate a fear for him when you act this way.

You ask for kindness shown to you but are not willing to give it in turn. It is very hard to want to give kindness first. Esp when you hurt too. But have we tried that behavior yet? Could see what happens and if results are better.

When you told him about feeling yucky after talking to Sarah, I think you were looking for reassure. You do not detail the conversation, but he seemed to speak from his fear place. Which to me sounds like you maybe did not preface with what you needed.
"I feel yucky. I want you to tell me it is ok for me to feel yucky and that you love me anyway and things will get better in time. Please reassure and "there, there" me right now."
Since he did not have instruction for what to do, he defaulted. And his default right now is "fear of losing sarah" so he's speaking to his fear rather than speaking to YOU.

Tell him HOW to speak to you by telling him what you need up front so you get more of the reassure you crave in appropriate ways. Then he can give you plenty of reassure (which you crave more of) without him having to throw Sarah under the bus to do it. You get more of what you want, he gets to start to feel less fearful. Sarah gets to have feelings and be a person rather than a robot.

Guard against dehumanizing Sarah, ok? She's your metamour right now. You SAY you want to still be friends and good metas, but your ACTIONS don't read as consistant to me. I know you are under a lot of pressure, but could be more mindful of your "talk" and your "walk" lining up.

But whenever Sarah asked Mike what he was feeling and he told her (and it was often unreasonable as well) - of COURSE she got mad at Mike and told him why what he said was unreasonable. But no - when I'm the one dealing with someone who feels put upon and resentful because I don't want my marriage to end, I should just suck it up and accept whatever answer I'm given.

Such complete and total bullshit. Total hypocrites.
magenta = sarah & mike stuff

How do you even KNOW all this stuff? From Sarah? Well, earlier you say Sarah "hasn't really talked with me since I made it clear the break is happening."
So more likely leaking from John. You think you deal with Sarah feelings, but really? You deal with John being a leaky hinge again. I don't think you see that, because you hang it on Sarah's head. I don't think Sarah see's that yet, because there IS the problem of you not giving that tier privacy yet. So she's quick to hang all probs on you without stopping to think which part John could own.

Why he does this? Probably him trying to deal with his fear of you making him dump Sarah by making you sympathize with her plight so you that you won't make him dump her.

Which really just feeds your need to assert as primary. And makes you resentful of Sarah, not sympathetic because you hang it on her head rather than recognizing it as a John hinge prob. Because what about YOUR plight? What you need is John reassure stuff. Not John hinge overshare stuff.

Does knowing this information about Mike and Sarah add to your emotional health stability? Or take away from your emotional health stability? To me it sounds like it takes away because it stirs other anxieties.

Could stop comparing your marriage to theirs. Let Sarah and Mike have their own polyship tier privacy. In this matter you are NOT the guy to give them support/aid. Too close for comfort. So you could stop John oversharing THAT information at you in its tracks and protect your own emotional health and well-being.

"No, do not tell me that. That is not my business. Knowing that kind of information only leads to upset for me."
YOU are responsible for your own mental health, emotional health, physical health, and spiritual health. Your partner(s) could aid in that, but the #1 guy doing that job is YOU.

Right now, even if temporarily, you are in a polyship with John and Sarah. Whether this continues or not is yet to be determined. But this is where you are right now. So...

How could you do a better job in emotional management to better care for your own healths? How could you do a good job of helping your partner(s) care for their mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual healths too?


These are things that are in your control. You could do these things if you choose to. You could think about it over your break if you are WILLING to do these kinds of things or not. Some repeats because it links to other colors. I color code, just to see where issues may lie and need strengthening. NOT to blame.

bold = You could ask yourself to stop using cel phone text to do serious relationship talks.

Could ask yourself to let go of need to know everything about John and Sarah.
  • Because it puts John in the middle and is not kind and does not respect their privacy.
  • It does not strengthen his hinge skills if you encourage him to leak.
  • It also feeds his fears of losing Sarah when you react badly to his leakage. You could ask him to tell you "No, that's is bumping a privacy limit" when you do it without noticing to help you learn. Tell him what to do INSTEAD of leaking.

You could ask John not feed your need to assert primaryship. You ARE primary. Don't have to defend that all the time. Ask he do this by
  • Not oversharing information with you even if you ask for it. Tell you when you cross privacy lines.
  • Not be indiscreet and spill Sarah & Mike Marraige status reports
  • Reassure you more often without your asking for it.
  • Could ask Sarah not to pin "Leak John Hinge Things" on your head. Park it in the right garage. Then she's not coming at you on the attack and then you don't have default to defensive.

Could ask yourself not to minimize Sarah feelings or otherwise dehumanize Sarah.
  • Making her "less" than you to assert primaryship is not actually alleviating your hackles being up or your reducing stress. Always "on" for "fight or flight" response is exhausting!
  • Reassure from JOHN does help reduce your stress.
  • Remember what tier you are on.
    • John: Remember he speaks from fear. Create climate of non-fear you will ask him to dump Sarah so he can let that go and you can be with non-fearful John.
    • Sarah: Focus on how to promote good metamorship with her when you talk to her. Not "top dog" her.

Could tell John you when need loving reassure and HOW you want it to be delivered right then.

Could ask him to ask you "Do you need reassure?" rather than launching in Sarah hardship stories. ALL of you have hardship right now.

Could match your "talk" and "walk" so you are not creating a climate of fear for John that you will ask him to dump Sarah. Ask him to point it out if you do it without realizing.

Could tell John to be mindful not to overshare things as the hinge person. Remind Sarah to do same and not blame you for John hinge problems.

Again, I apologize for the rainbow crazy. I just couldn't think of any other way to try to give you constructive feedback and keep up with all this whirwind.

Hang in there.


Last edited by GalaGirl; 11-02-2012 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:22 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 78

Very interesting thread, with a lot of good advice to think on.
Flaming wreckage
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