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  #21  
Old 10-31-2012, 11:40 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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This is your blog so I'm only going to comment once. (Blogs are not generally supposed to be for feedback or commenting upon by others.)

You and Airyn have been played from my perspective. There are two ways people get away from bad situations. One, they figure out what they need to do to survive and how to get what they need to live on their own. Then they work hard to make that happen. And they leave. They know they can manage their own life. Or, two, they figure out who can help them leave, glom onto them, and trade whatever they've got to get out. These folks don't know how to be independent, they only know how to manipulate, charm and trade to get what they want.

Of course she initially presented as being into you. Not because you are not attractive but because you and your husband were a package deal at the time. To get out she had to be into both of you. She's not a lesbian, she's not even bisexual or biamorous. Did she become not into you once she moved in? I bet she did. She realized that she could stay if she wasn't dating you because she is still seeing your husband. Who has lost his mind and all perspective over a 21 year old body.

She is employing the same tactics as her abusive, manipulative mother. It takes work and self-awareness to not repeat what our parents taught us. She does not give the impression that she is willing to work or particularly self-aware. She is a prime emotional manipulator. She can read you and Airyn like a book. (Manipulation does not require self-awareness beyond a baseline 'I do this so they do that.') That whole "Love ya!" business is another way to get a hook into you. As she doesn't want you sexually, then maybe she can give you a taste of emotional connection and keep you hooked that way. It is no coincidence this happened after your husband's mom gave him an earful about Chipmunk. He may not listen to you but I bet his mom got his attention, at least somewhat. She needs to keep you off-balanced enough so you don't connect the dots and fully realize how destructive she is to you, Airyn, and your marriage. And to herself.

She is terribly needy. WAY WAY more than even your typical self-involved early twenties woman. She is a black hole of need that cannot be filled by your or Airyn or anyone else. Don't excuse this by blaming youth. Yes, of course, she is immature. I was too at that age. You were too. But you cannot help her. Airyn cannot help her. There is something terribly awry with this woman beyond the normal growing pains of young adulthood.

I know you made a promise to her. But you are not actually responsible for her. You may feel responsible but that is not true. It is not real. Airyn is not responsible for her wellbeing either. She is an adult.

You also made a promise to Airyn and a promise to the marriage both of you share. You have invited a toxic cowgirl into your midst. If she does not leave your house, your marriage will implode. Get her out of your house. Give her money for an apartment first and last payment if you have to. (Don't pay her rent!) If Chipmunk and Airyn want to continue their relationship after her moving out, more power to them. (This won't happen-once she doesn't get what she wants from you two, he will be the next to be dumped. Don't believe me? Try it.) Help her move. Wish her well. But get her out.

I'm sorry to be so harsh about someone you like and want to be happy. It's not something I want to write. But it's what I see from the outside. I don't think she is evil incarnate. But she is toxic and will take down your marriage with her if you are not careful.

Good luck.
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  #22  
Old 11-01-2012, 06:27 PM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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I just started reading your blog last night, and wanted to wait until I was finished until I commented. I'm not clear on if Chimpmunk has her own room? I really get the feeling she doesn't. To me it seems like many of the issues are from you not having your own space anymore. From being forced to share a bed with somebody you want to date, but are not dating. Spending most of your social time out as a triad, or as BFFs, when you aren't the first and still too raw over it to be the latter. I can't even imagine coming home from work and not being able to go in my own bedroom because I want to be considerate. In my case I'd probably knock on the door and say I'm home, and then let them come out whenever they were done, but if I didn't I'd be getting increasingly frustrated (and getting mad at myself for not acting) the longer I waited patiently, and I think in your case, this might be why you ended up mad at Airyn?

It seems like the three of you are seriously deep in each others pockets, reading through what you have to say, it sounds like each of you could use some more private time in your dyads, Chimpmunk make herself scarce a couple nights a week (regularly scheduled), you and Airyn make a couple nights a week scheduled where Chipmunk isn't joining you in that day or in bed at all, even to sleep. You getting the bedroom to yourself at least one night while Airyn and Chipmunk are elsewhere. All this togetherness just seems suffocating, and it seems to be taking a big toll on you. Of course you haven't really stated this, so I may just be projecting, but I wonder if because you had one boundary and it was broken, you just gave up trying to have any others for yourself?

So if she doesn't have her own space, Id suggest you get her to be friends with the sofa sometimes, and first decide in your head what you want to do about housing, make up your mind, THEN have that discussion with Airyn about if you're all moving into a bigger place, or if you want your house back just to yourself and Airyn or to move to a bigger place with just Airyn (and I'd factor in the fact that you want to date too at some point here, and so to me the third option would be what I'd go for) where you had an extra bedroom where just him and Chipmunk could be, or for you and your gf (or hopefully someday bf?) to use, so both you and Airyn still have a private bedroom for just you two to retreat to and sleep in.

Ok, thank you for writing your story, I hope blogging is helping put your thoughts in order!
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  #23  
Old 11-02-2012, 01:53 AM
Numina Numina is offline
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I have really taken some time to think about what you have to say. I can't say I'm surprised, or that I feel completely different, but neither do I completely agree. Remember that this blog has mostly come from a place of sadness, angst, with a lot of feeling of being trapped thrown in. Also there have been many,many good times, days, events. What I am focusing on here, what I am trying to purge from myself are the bad times as I see them. I acknowledge that my view of each situation is not the best, and that it can/has/does change as time goes on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
You and Airyn have been played from my perspective. There are two ways people get away from bad situations. One, they figure out what they need to do to survive and how to get what they need to live on their own. Then they work hard to make that happen. And they leave. They know they can manage their own life. Or, two, they figure out who can help them leave, glom onto them, and trade whatever they've got to get out. These folks don't know how to be independent, they only know how to manipulate, charm and trade to get what they want.
You may be right, but not necessarily. Chipmunk has grown up in a very conservative Christian home, and moved in with her biological mother about 3 years ago. This was the first time that she had to deal with some one who is verbally, mental, and emotional abusive (and yes manipulative). Everyone manipulates situations, and people to meet their needs. In this case I do not believe that Chipmunk is manipulating things in a malicious fashion. As I have told Airyn multiple times I don't believe Chipmunk even realize what she is doing. I know for a fact that she has said things to me that were personally hurtful, and that she did not do so on purpose, or realize how I would react to what was said.

And I can be just as hurtful/manipulative at times as well. For instance. Chipmunk and I had a conversation (I've talked about it in this blog before) about porn, watching it together. Her ultimate response was that she does not watch porn with other people. She said this directly to me, no one else in the room. She was very serious, and somewhat uncomfortable. But this statement left no room for, "I'll consider it", or "I'd being willing to try". So from my perspective she was telling me, "No I will not watch any porn with you ever". Recently Airyn asked to use my computer, and I made a joke. I said ok, but let me close all my porn first. I wasn't watching porn or anything of the kind, both Airyn, and Chipmunk knew this. Chipmunk suggested that I watch on the bedroom computer. She was in bed with her computer messing around on the internet (facebook). My response as I left the room, "You don't want to watch porn with me." I left the room as I said this because I KNEW it would be hurtful for her to hear, and I knew she would say something about it to Airyn. Which she did. She told Airyn that she never actually said she didn't want to watch porn with me. He and I talked about that a little while later, and I explained that sure she "literally" did not say that, but what she did say left no room for possibility. And since she never came back to me to say anything to make it sound like she would consider it, for me, that says there was no chance.

What was the point of this? Well to show that she is not the only one who has manipulated a situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
Of course she initially presented as being into you. Not because you are not attractive but because you and your husband were a package deal at the time. To get out she had to be into both of you. She's not a lesbian, she's not even bisexual or biamorous. Did she become not into you once she moved in? I bet she did. She realized that she could stay if she wasn't dating you because she is still seeing your husband. Who has lost his mind and all perspective over a 21 year old body.
Well yes and no. She had never had any experience being with women before. She has attraction to women, crushes even and not just to me, but to another girlfriend of hers. She found she wasn't into Girl on Girl sex about a month after she moved in. As someone who didn't recognize her own bisexuality right away I can understand this. I also realize that chipmunk may find that she is interested in sex with women later in life. Right now she is very inexperienced in general, not just with women. Initially Chipmunk knew that we came as a packaged deal, she would have to date both of us. It wasn't until after that first month that she and I talked about finding some intimate balance between us where sex would always involve Airyn, and it not be just girl/girl. It was also understood (originally) that if things didn't work between she and I there would be no Airyn and Chipmunk; like I said package deal. I'm pretty sure I shared all this, but maybe not, and since I'm purging myself I don't have much interest in rereading what I have posted here. I also know I talked about not being bothered by the two of them dating, only that having Chipmunk living with me. Living sleeping in our shared bed, that's what I am struggling with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
She is employing the same tactics as her abusive, manipulative mother. It takes work and self-awareness to not repeat what our parents taught us. She does not give the impression that she is willing to work or particularly self-aware. She is a prime emotional manipulator. She can read you and Airyn like a book. (Manipulation does not require self-awareness beyond a baseline 'I do this so they do that.') That whole "Love ya!" business is another way to get a hook into you. As she doesn't want you sexually, then maybe she can give you a taste of emotional connection and keep you hooked that way. It is no coincidence this happened after your husband's mom gave him an earful about Chipmunk. He may not listen to you but I bet his mom got his attention, at least somewhat. She needs to keep you off-balanced enough so you don't connect the dots and fully realize how destructive she is to you, Airyn, and your marriage. And to herself.

She is terribly needy. WAY WAY more than even your typical self-involved early twenties woman. She is a black hole of need that cannot be filled by your or Airyn or anyone else. Don't excuse this by blaming youth. Yes, of course, she is immature. I was too at that age. You were too. But you cannot help her. Airyn cannot help her. There is something terribly awry with this woman beyond the normal growing pains of young adulthood.
Since the manipulative mother didn't come into Chipmunks life till Chipmunk was 18 this is off base a little. Again I do see many of her actions as manipulative, but I don't see them as intentionally destructive, or vindictive. Part of Chipmunks problem is that she can't let go. The fellow J that she was pursuing she had only kissed once, and she held on to this relationship for a long time even with him repeatedly turning her down. So her sudden interest in more intimacy with me is more her want to hold on to me even though I've let her go. She and I shared a MUCH more intimate relationship then just one kiss. Same with the, "love ya" comment. She wants the relationship to continue, but right now I want no relationship. In a few weeks, or a month who knows I may be up for a platonic girly flirty relationship with her again, but for now I have all these "we aren't dating" thoughts/feeling/ect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
I know you made a promise to her. But you are not actually responsible for her. You may feel responsible but that is not true. It is not real. Airyn is not responsible for her wellbeing either. She is an adult.

You also made a promise to Airyn and a promise to the marriage both of you share. You have invited a toxic cowgirl into your midst. If she does not leave your house, your marriage will implode. Get her out of your house. Give her money for an apartment first and last payment if you have to. (Don't pay her rent!) If Chipmunk and Airyn want to continue their relationship after her moving out, more power to them. (This won't happen-once she doesn't get what she wants from you two, he will be the next to be dumped. Don't believe me? Try it.) Help her move. Wish her well. But get her out.

I'm sorry to be so harsh about someone you like and want to be happy. It's not something I want to write. But it's what I see from the outside. I don't think she is evil incarnate. But she is toxic and will take down your marriage with her if you are not careful.

Good luck.
When it comes down to it my marriage to Airyn will always be there. Sure things are hard, but they are actually getting better. It's slow and cumbersome, but I can see light at the end of the tunnel. It's just really really far away still. I told Airyn just today; after having our long mostly one side conversation last night, that I can still see a bigger place with Chipmunk in her own room working. Airyn and I have had a lot of talks about where we are going and how to make things work till we can move. No matter how anyone looks at it this is hard. We had no idea what we were really getting into. I say we and include all three of us. We are poly newbies, and are sadly learning things the hard way. I still see poly working for Airyn and I. I just don't see a relationship beyond friends working between Chipmunk and I.

Thank you very much for your perspective. It made me think, and clarify what I see, and how to express that. I hope my response to you explains my situation a little better.
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Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #24  
Old 11-02-2012, 02:05 AM
Numina Numina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
I just started reading your blog last night, and wanted to wait until I was finished until I commented. I'm not clear on if Chimpmunk has her own room? I really get the feeling she doesn't. To me it seems like many of the issues are from you not having your own space anymore. From being forced to share a bed with somebody you want to date, but are not dating. Spending most of your social time out as a triad, or as BFFs, when you aren't the first and still too raw over it to be the latter. I can't even imagine coming home from work and not being able to go in my own bedroom because I want to be considerate. In my case I'd probably knock on the door and say I'm home, and then let them come out whenever they were done, but if I didn't I'd be getting increasingly frustrated (and getting mad at myself for not acting) the longer I waited patiently, and I think in your case, this might be why you ended up mad at Airyn?
Yes we all share one room, and I may not have clearly stated that before. This is the biggest part of what is making things difficult. Like I told Airyn (actually just now) What I want is for her to have her own room. I have said that I do not like not having a space that is mine. It is something we all have to work with. Chipmunk is also wanting her own space. We are doing what we can with what we have. It's just hard. When this lease is up we will be looking to rent a house. I have been avoiding buy a house here as I really want to move north, but since we've lived here like 9 years now It's probably silly of me not to just buy a place. I still don't want to buy anything though. *shrug*

Yes some of my anger at Airyn may have been my waiting. Not all of it is from that. It's a series of events that started with our instant messaging dwindling, and Airyn not saying "good night" when he's no longer at the key board, and then messaging Chipmunk before we are out of bed and getting dress. Then telling me he's staying up late, and not checking for messages before going to sleep. Especially after my saying I'd be on shortly, and him saying he was still up in the kitchen. 10 mins is not very long, and even just checking before closing his eyes for the night would have been nice. I've talked to him about his "disappearing" when we are messaging online. or how he'll send me a message, and I'll start talking to him, and not hear from him again the rest of the night. It would seem that unless I get angry, or make a BIG deal out of these things, he doesn't see that it's an issue he should do anything about.

It's really not even that big of deal. If we didn't have the dynamic to start with, or if he had never bother to give me some indication that he was going to sleep I'd think nothing of it, and would have handled the whole thing differently. Basically this is an issue that we created together, Airyn and I. He felt that he had often left me hanging before Chipmunk moved in, and feels that he has informed me he's done for the night since. I explained that it's completely reversed. Sure there were nights that I was left hanging before, and sure he has told me he was done at least once. The problem is that being left hanging should still be very rare, and not the majority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
It seems like the three of you are seriously deep in each others pockets, reading through what you have to say, it sounds like each of you could use some more private time in your dyads, Chimpmunk make herself scarce a couple nights a week (regularly scheduled), you and Airyn make a couple nights a week scheduled where Chipmunk isn't joining you in that day or in bed at all, even to sleep. You getting the bedroom to yourself at least one night while Airyn and Chipmunk are elsewhere. All this togetherness just seems suffocating, and it seems to be taking a big toll on you. Of course you haven't really stated this, so I may just be projecting, but I wonder if because you had one boundary and it was broken, you just gave up trying to have any others for yourself?
Yes we are very much in each others space. We each feel it differently. Airyn is the most OK with it, I'm the most unhappy with it.
Boundaries: The one boundary that I had didn't get set till after Chipmunk moved in, the boundaries that I want are not workable in our current living arrangements. These are things that I have started talking with Airyn about, and I have a planned outing with Chipmunk tomorrow to discuss a few things. For one thing she needs to start thinking about what she wants in her relationship with Airyn. As far as his time/attention go. Then she will have to consider how viable her wants are, and what she will be comfortable with if she can't actually get everything. as in she will have to decide what are wants and what are needs. She will also have to find a comfortable way to talk about her needs with me and Airyn. Once Chipmunk has these figured out we can talk about how to make her needs work with my needs, and talk about the possibility of getting the wants. It really depends on what she feels she wants versus needs.

Say she wants Marriage: that is not currently on the table, but in a few years (after Wolf is an adult) then this "want" can be considered.
Say she wants and entire week of just her and Airyn: that isn't off the table, but may be very difficult. Something that we could only make happen once every couple months.

I'm very open/willing to seriously consider everything she and Airyn want in their relationship. So long as they seriously consider my want/needs in my relationship with Airyn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
So if she doesn't have her own space, Id suggest you get her to be friends with the sofa sometimes, and first decide in your head what you want to do about housing, make up your mind, THEN have that discussion with Airyn about if you're all moving into a bigger place, or if you want your house back just to yourself and Airyn or to move to a bigger place with just Airyn (and I'd factor in the fact that you want to date too at some point here, and so to me the third option would be what I'd go for) where you had an extra bedroom where just him and Chipmunk could be, or for you and your gf (or hopefully someday bf?) to use, so both you and Airyn still have a private bedroom for just you two to retreat to and sleep in.

Ok, thank you for writing your story, I hope blogging is helping put your thoughts in order!
lol @ the couch comment. Chipmunk spent half the night on the floor. I didn't like that, and neither did Airyn. We have a "she is our guest" mentality when it comes to that sort of thing.
Besides we don't actually have a couch, the last one got thrown away when Either Airyn or I got sick of it. We live in a more Japanese style, think cushions on the floor. At one time I had a tatami room, but Wolf's cats destroyed the mats. Very sad. I plan to have a tatami room again, but not till we get a bigger place.

I can see moving Chipmunk into her own place making my life easier, but I do not want to build resentment. And I don't hate Chipmunk I just don't really want to have to see her everyday RIGHT NOW. Airyn knows and gets how I feel, but I don't think Chipmunk truly understands. Like I was telling Opalescent, Chipmunk is kinda clinging to a relationship that doesn't exist for me right now. Maybe once I have churned through all my angst over my failure (ok maybe not "my failure" but that is how I am currently feeling) with my first girlfriend things will be different. I'm trying not to project any expectations for the future.
I believe that a larger place where Chipmunk has her own room, and she and I can have space that is separate will work for us just fine. It's getting to that place that is difficult.

And yes blogging has helped me in a lot of ways. For one I'm calmer in general. My last unhappy conversation with Airyn was more me being angry with him, and less of me getting all emotional and crying. I even pointed this out to Airyn telling him that things are better in many ways. Airyn says he would rather me be pissed and angry then emotional and in tears, if he has to choose one or the other.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #25  
Old 11-08-2012, 07:28 AM
Numina Numina is offline
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So Chipmunk and I went for a long walk and had a little chat. Ok more like a big chat. She's still not big on talking with me about her feelings.

I spent some time talking to Airyn letting him know what I wanted to talk to Chipmunk about. He just asked me not to make things worse, and said to be careful how I phrase things. It's been a few days and since then so my memory isn't so fresh, but here it goes.

I started by explaining that my anger at Airyn the other day would have happened even if she was living next door. That the only reason it affects her is because she lives with us, but that her living with us was not the issue. I explained that it was about Airyn's messaging habits, and my frustration with him. That her telling him she was moving out only increases Airyn stress, and isn't helpful. I talk about how if she decides she wants to move out it should be because she WANTs to live on her own not because one of us got mad or upset.

She didn't have a whole lot to say. Just listened, you can tell she's filing things away and will look at it all later.

So I tell her that I don't want her moving out just cause I got upset with Airyn. I remind her that Airyn calls me "Hot Headed" for a reason. She response to this saying that Airyn calls her neurotic. Which I tell her he has reason for as well. I suggest that she and I both agree to be a little less hot headed/neurotic. Then I start talking about how moving in with a significant other is never easy. That it takes both parties working at the relationship. I tell her that Airyn and I had to work hard to have the relationship we have now, that we were both committed to making it work. Then I tell Chipmunk that I know Airyn is "pretty damn committed to making this work." I just kinda look at her sideways after saying that, her response, "what" So I tell her she needs to be committed too.

I tell her that I have keep my "hot headedness" mostly away from her. She has said that she doesn't handle upset people well. That she get emotional, and starts crying when people are upset and yelling at her. So I explain how part of my conversation/anger with Airyn went. How I very aggressively told Airyn that he needs to be telling her the same thing now that he has been telling me for the past few months. Deal with it, it'll get better soon (maybe not in those words). That Chipmunk needs to learn to deal till we get moved. I explain that I realize she can't handle that type of communication, and that I save it for Airyn who will let me get my anger out without reading to much into it. I asked her to at least give me credit for coming to her calmly and talking about these things. She smiled and let me know that she appreciates that.

Then I move on as she and I are getting a long nicely at this point. I tell her that she should start thinking about the things she wants versus needs in her relationship with Airyn. That once we do get a bigger place things will change, and she should start thinking about it. She tells me she doesn't know what she wants. So I tell her what I told Airyn, and what I have expressed her previously. That I want 2 days a week, and at least 1 weekend a month. That the longer I go without what I want the more weekend time I want. That at this point I'm thinking more like every other weekend, but that I am flexible. I'm not likely to expect my 2 days a week to be on her days off. That I figure she wants a lot of the same things that I do. We talk about our sleeping arrangements, and how she would like to wake up to just Airyn in the mornings. I agree that it sucks right now, and tell her that I don't particular like coming home 5 mornings a week to her and Airyn half naked, snuggled up together in my bed, that sometimes I just don't want to deal with that at all. And I tell her that there's not too much we can do until we find a suitable couch/daybed. That it won't be perfect, but that it should help some. I hope that Chipmunk hearing my base line (my starting place) will giver her some where to start as she considers what she wants from Airyn.

So basically I tell her that when things get difficult she needs to stop trying to bale and threatening to move out. I point out that we are working on find ways to make everyone more comfortable till we move into a bigger place. Yes I called her "I'm moving out" a threat. We've been living together for just over 3 months, and she has said 3 times in a 2 week period that she's just going to move out. I told her that we have all put a lot of time into making this work. That if I can wait it out, so can she. I reminded her that I went from have Airyn to myself 24.7 to just a few hours here and there and not over night time at all. If i can stay, and not "move out" she should be able to find a way for a few more months. This actually got a smile. i think this put things more into perspective for her. That some of my anger, and emotional issues are over the things I miss with Airyn, and that the amount of time she is missing out on this week is minor. I've been on vacation since Wednesday so home 24/6 for about a week and a half. She has not enjoyed having her alone time with Airyn disappear. I also acknowledge that I have been needy of Airyn's time. At the end of our walk I let her know that when I pick Wolf up from school Wolf and I will be going out for a few hours. That it's not much alone time, but it's better than none. That I understand how hard it can be when your privacy, and alone time with a lover gets cut off.

I asked Airyn the next day if Chipmunk talked with him about it. He said all he did was ask if she felt better, and that she does feel better. That she's still doing her "post processing" as he calls it. Over the next couple days he said he could tell she was less stressed.

Then her next day off came up, and I said I would go for a walk with Wolf and hang out at the library for a while after Wolf get home from school. Because this would put me and wolf walking home after dark Chipmunk suggest that Airyn and her come pick us up before the library closed (8pm). The next day I'm talking to Airyn and he tells me that Chipmunk has been being unreasonable about what she considers intimate time with him. I asked him about it and he explained that Chipmunk thought I was only walking to the library and back until I came into the bedroom and looked up the libraries hours. That she was being sad about how little time she expected to have. He also told me that she has only been counting the hours the two of them have with out Wolf present, but has been counting the hours Airyn and I have even with Wolf present as (intimate) time "alone". He told her that this is a double standard on her part. She said that it's different cause Airyn and I can lock the bedroom door and still have privacy. He explained that this is not entirely so. That sure we can lock the door, but Wolf is home, and awake and at the door. That when we do lock the door it's only for 30 mins to an hour. We can't ignore Wolf. He doesn't know if that helped, but feels it might bring her to a different perspective. Help her view things differently. Airyn also knows that I have very little sympathy for Chipmunk's lack of time. When it comes down to it I just don't see how she can complain. Untill about three weeks ago I was luck to get an hour of time at home with Airyn (and Wolf was always present) a couple days per week. And she's complaining about a week and a half, when I've offered to give them time on her days off? So I point out that my going out with Wolf to give them time was MY suggestion, MY idea. That I do not have to leave my home to allow his other lover intimate time with my husband in my home. That this is my home, and I DO NOT have to leave it. (It is my home, my income pays for it. My income pays for all the cost of living where we do.) Airyn is very capable of handling my initial negative reaction, and moving on as if I wasn't just being angry, and perhaps a bit unreasonable. I'm conflicted. Do I offer to go out tomorrow (Chipmunks next day off) and give them alone time at home? Or do I just stay home. It is my vacation time, I should stay home and enjoy being in Airyn company even if his company includes my x-girlfriend.

I tell Airyn that intimate time does not have to mean sex. That having time to chat privately between them can be intimate. That they can kiss, and flirt, and make out all they want with out me watching. Then I tell him that sitting together at the computer I count as private/intimate time with him. That it is nice to feel like it's my space for a while. I also reminded him that my going out to give them time was my idea, and suggestion. That I don't have to leave my home so his lover can have alone time in my home with him. (I am hot headed see) Really she should be seeing that I am making an effort to be fair, and understanding, but this is my home. It's my income that pays for it, and I DO NOT have to offer to leave it. Airyn can handle my negative initial reaction, or we wouldn't still be together. lol

Ok enough of that. Airyn told me a while back ago that having Chipmunk in his life has really shown him what he needs/appreciates about our relationship. So tonight I asked him what he meant that he never actually told me. He said stability. That he doesn't have to worry that I'm going to up and leave him. That he knows we will always have each other no matter how things turn out between him and Chipmunk. That he doesn't have to worry, or feel paranoid. I just smiled and reminded him what I have said before. "I'm still here, and I'm not going anywhere." Things many be hard, or rough, but they are not impossible.

Even better, This weekend I'm meeting a woman I have been emailing for about a month. And early next week I'm meeting with another woman I've been messaging for several weeks. I'm excited, and a little nervous. Airyn has been laughing/giggling at me over it.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #26  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:15 AM
Numina Numina is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default

So much is going on right now. I'm not even sure where to begin. And I had A GOOD day today. Laid back, quite morning with Airyn, and then a bit of errands with Wolf.

Everything was great till I get a message from Airyn telling me that nothing good is going on at home, and that I don't need to take my time. O.o

Where did it start. Let's see.
Well Airyn and I went to pick up Chipmunk. We got there early and went in for a drink (coffee). When Chipmunk got off she suggested that we come back together for happy hour. Sounded like a good idea. We go home, Airyn and Chipmunk talk about what they want to do/cook tomorrow night while I'm out with my friend. They will have Wolf, but she's self sufficient. So they will have plenty of privacy, and can lock the bedroom door for a while too.

A few hours later we go back up to Chipmunks job, and Airyn orders a beer, Chipmunk is asking about sweet wines, but they don't have any white, and she doesn't like the red they let her taste. So her mood gets sour. We decide to walk around some. Airyn ask Chipmunk if they should get the catfish they were discussing. She says she doesn't care. I have to pick up Wolf soon, and ask if they want to come with me, or if I should stop back by and pick them up. Since Chipmunk didn't get a glass of wine, Airyn says he'll finish off his beer, and they'll go with me. Chipmunk responds surprised when we get up to go to the car a few mins later. Saying she thought they were going to do some food shopping, I tell her that I have to go get Wolf, so we have to go now if they are coming with me.

Pick up Wolf, get home. Wolf gets in the shower, and Chipmunk is acting all moody, but not talking to anyone about it.
As Wolf and I are leaving Airyn follows me for kisses at the door. I whisper that Chipmunk is being pissy probably cause she didn't get the glass of wine she wanted. Airyn says he knows, and he'll see what's up. Then Wolf and I are out the door. Places to go, things to buy. Wolf is excited she like shopping even when it's just your average errands.

We get to our first stop (about 15 mins), and I message Airyn (as promised) where we are, and that I'll let him know when we are almost done. About 20 mins later I get a message from Airyn telling me "nothings happening here tonight, don't be taking your time." My answer to that: Wow, ok.

So something is up, and it sounds kinda big. Wolf and I are out another hour or so then I message Airyn letting him know we'll be home soon. Walk in, knock on the bedroom door and tell them we are home. They are obviously having a serious conversation. So I head back to the kitchen to put everything away. Chipmunk comes out a couple times to see what I'm doing, but I don't see Airyn. This is strange for him. Normally he comes to greet me with kisses when I get home, after being gone. So I get finished in the kitchen, and head to the bedroom, Chipmunk is in the kitchen. So I ask Airyn what happened. Chipmunk was pissed because she wanted to get stuff for tomorrow night right then, not tomorrow. And she was wanting to only get stuff for her and Airyn, and not include Wolf. I am very much offended by her wanting to exclude Wolf. If she wants to be just the two of them then they should go out just them. Hell on the date Airyn and I went on I bought dinner for everyone before we left. I get that it's more expensive to feed three then it is to feed two, but I'm feeding four now, and I'm used to only feeding three. Sure she helps once in a while, and I'm expecting her to offer to buy household staples more often now, but she tends to buy things for just her. And when she buys snacks for everyone, she get surprised/unhappy when they get eaten. Grrr.

I tell Airyn that Chipmunk has to realize that I will not be paying part of the cost every time they go out somewhere. That that will be coming to an end. She's not dating me I don't feel obligated to pay for her to date Airyn. He's a stay-at-home parent, this was known from the beginning. Doesn't mean he won't have money, and be able to take her out, just not every time they want to do something.

Ok, ok. So she's being pissy. Airyn goes to her and asks if everything is ok? She say yep, and puts her headphones back in and rolls away from him. Since she doesn't want to talk, and is obviously pissed, Airyn goes in the other room. Starts clean the kitchen. She comes out "for a drink" but really to see what he's doing. So Airyn thinks she's ready to talk and asks again what's up. She asks how long Wolf and I will be gone, Airyn says a long while. Chipmunk tells him he should have gone with me. This sets the mood to really shitty. So now Airyn is about to text me to come pick him up, but doesnt cause he's still trying to figure out what is wrong. So they are arguing, she goes outside and sits on the porch telling Airyn they aren't "doing" anything tonight. He sends me the message saying nothing is going on, and not to be taking my time. Then he grabs his keys and goes for a walk to the library, and right back. This pisses Chipmunk off even more. He tells her that they both left, she went outside to the porch, and he went for a walk. It's the same thing. She tells him going outside to the porch is different. They don't get to any resolution, Airyn tells me that everything he says to her just pisses her off even more. Eventually things get more calm, and Chipmunk starts getting suggestive. She asks Airyn to find out where I'm at and how much longer I'll be gone. He looks at her and says he told me to come home early after she told him he should have gone with me.

It's not long after that that I come home to a house of gloom. Geeze. At least it wasn't my fault. How many times do I have to tell Chipmunk that she has to ask for what she wants. If she doesn't tell me then I can't do anything. I'm not a mind reader.

And grocery shopping is an argument? Guess I can't be surprised Texting/messaging was an argument for me right?

So Chipmunk's next day off, she found someone to hang out with and will be going out. I asked if I needed to drop her off, or if her friend was going to pick her up. She didn't know. I asked what she was going to be doing? Movies, dinner, club, bar? She didn't know. Airyn tells me that she was messaging a couple people looking for anyone to hang out with other then him. She texted Guy (my friend) and he told her he all ready has plans. Which is true, but he also don't like how clingy/flirty she has been with him. *Shrug*. So now Airyn and Chipmunk aren't doing any fancy cooking tomorrow, and will have a longish evening to themselves with a lot less planned. Hmm wonder what they will do. Hopefully not argue. I plan to have a god time while I'm out and don't want to come home to a house of gloom again.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #27  
Old 11-13-2012, 09:25 AM
Numina Numina is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default Wolf: Chipmunk

Clarity:

I should be more clear I think.
When talking with Airyn last Friday, about Chipmunk not wanting to include Wolf in their at home dinner "date" plans.
1: I offered to have them drop me off so they could have the car and go out just the two of them. They opted to stay home.
2: I was offended that Chipmunk was basically wanting to cook a nice meal, and tell Wolf, "Sorry you can't have any".
3. I get that it is more expensive to feed 3 versus 2, but instead of choosing to exclude someone, choose a less expensive meal plan. Or go out to eat.
4: I would not do that to Chipmunk.
5: Wolf was part of the bargain when Chipmunk moved in. (And is not something newly sprung on her)

Wolf can be very self sufficient. She's 12, and is willing to make food for herself. However, when some one is cooking in the kitchen she won't attempt to cook for herself. She doesn't like getting in the way. I do not see including Wolf when cooking a meal at home as being unreasonable.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #28  
Old 11-13-2012, 10:47 AM
Numina Numina is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default Saturday: Meeting Boots

Had a good morning, chilling out with Airyn. Picked up Chipmunk after work. She was in a better mood, and Airyn was letting the upset of Friday go (mostly).

My Friend Guy invited us over to his place after he gets off work, but he knew about the drama from Friday. So i told him that I wouldn't bring Airyn and Chipmunk if there was still drama, but would be happy to come over after meeting Boots ( a lady I meet through an online dating site). She and I have been email, messaging (ect.) for over a month, and finally set up something to meet face to face.

I told Airyn about Guy's invite for Saturday night, and told him that when I'm done at the event I meet Boots at if things are cool between him and Chipmunk I'll pick them up and we can go. But that if there is drama, I'm not interested in walking into a house of Gloom after having a fun night out, so I'll go to Guy's on my own. He laughed and said ok, but that he expects things will be fine. Asked me to Call when I'm on my way home so that they can be ready to go.

I head out a little early (6ish, for a 5 min drive to meet at 6:30) so I can find parking, and text Airyn letting him know that I arrived, parked, and am sitting in the cafe waiting for Boots. No response from Airyn, but I'm not surprised by this as I expect they went straight to the bedroom for some loving privacy. I message Boots to let her know I'm there, and got a table for us. Tell her what colors I'm wearing, and that my almost tailbone length hair is down. I figure this will help her spot me.

I was nervous getting ready, and spent more time on hair, clothes, and even put make-up on. I very rarely wear makeup it's probably been about 10 years since I wore make-up regularly. Airyn was all smiles telling me to relax, it's just a couple friends getting together. So I'm dressed in some skin tight black not quite slacks spaghetti strap top with a red and dark grey shear knit top over it. Showing off my curvy form to good advantage. Don't get me wrong I'm pretty slender, and I have lots of curves. A large ass, narrow waist, and breasts size to match my ass (large). Think 50's pinup curves.

I really like Boots we've had a great time as pen pals up to this point, and have shared a lot of personal, and semi-personal information. So I feel like I already know her. I picked up some stone ground Mexican dark chocolate with a vanilla flavor to give her. She and I have both expressed our weakness for chocolates. And this stone ground chocolate is one of my favorites. Boots also shares my joy of Bubble teas.

So we meet at an easy to find cafe by the Music Awards event we are attending. We talk for a few minutes, but decide to walk over to a little Filipino bakery/restaurant a block over that serves bubble tea. The food there is always great, the portions don't look big, but they are very filling. We each get a bubble tea, and something tasty. The atmosphere is quiet with dim lighting. She and I are both introverts, and are both being somewhat shy. So conversation is slow, but there are no uncomfortable silences. Then we are off to enjoy the music. Walking between the venue's, and stopping at some of the out door booths. By 8ish we are conversing and sharing more information about ourselves. Generally enjoying each other company. She invites me to a join a local facebook Poly group. We notice an upcoming get together, and make tentative plans to attend. We are also talking about other events, and restaurants we'd like to visit together. We decide that 10pm is a good time to call it a night, and walk back over the the little cafe we started at. Her husband is picking her up from there. So we sit outside, and are very comfortable chatting. It was a very happy, pleasant, evening and I can't wait to do it again soon. We part ways with a hug.

Then I'm calling home letting them know I'm on my way. Everything seems cool, so I message guy telling him that I'm headed home to pick everyone up and asking if he's ready for us. After getting home I email Boots letting her know I had a great time, and am looking forward to next weekend. During this same few mins I'm writing my email, Boots is messaging me in Facebook saying pretty much the same thing. The next day she remarks on the timing of our messages to each other. I'm all smiles over here. Some time Sunday she emails me talking about how much she enjoyed the restaurant, and wants to go there again, and asking where I got that chocolate. She liked it a lot and wants to get more. lol. We are a good match for friendly hanging out. Not sure if we hit it off just right to be more then that. I'm not going to be quick to start a more romantic relationship considering how that went last time.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #29  
Old 11-13-2012, 11:14 AM
Numina Numina is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default Monday: Meeting History

Sunday was a sad day for me. More because my vacation time was at an end, and I didn't get any quality time with Airyn. He was busy working on his class assignment, so we didn't have time for anything before I needed to call it a night. And after having more time during my vacation I'm not looking forward to the reduction with my work schedule. Sure it wasn't perfect, but it was better. Having more then just a couple hours 4-5 days a week was a really nice change.

Monday I have Airyn drop me off at cafe Brazil on his way to class. Chipmunk is going with him, but she has dropped the class. So she brought her laptop to kill time. They plan to pick me up after class, and come in for a coffee, and lunch themselves. I ask them to message me when they are on their way so i can let them know if I'm still hanging out with lets call her History. I meet her on the same online dating site as Boots. She's not my type for a romantic relationship, but we do have several hobbies that are the same, so plenty to talk about. And she's more out going so there are very few silent moments between us.

Again I arrive early, and message History that I've gotten us a seat. I'm not as nervous getting ready to meat History. We've been messaging back and forth a few weeks less then with Boots. We aren't romantically compatible. So just friendship on the menu. It was still great meeting, and talking about our lives, she was very expressive, and lots of fun. She pointed me at a crafting blog that I'll like, and I suggested a couple place to find free/cheap knitting patterns, and science projects for her boys. We talked a lot about families, crafts, jobs, clothing, ect. There was lots of giggling, and laughter, time went by very quickly. I get a message from Airyn letting me know he got out of class early and is on his way. I let him know that History and I are still chatting. When he arrives he gets a table with Chipmunk on the other side of the restaurant, and messages me that they are here. I didn't see them arrive, but notice where they are sitting. eventually pointing them out to History. She has expressed an interest n the style hat Airyn wears. When I notice that Airyn and Chipmunk are done with their meal History and I wrap things up. She has to go and pick her boys up from school and has a few errands to run first anyway, so it's good timeing.

I join Airyn and Chipmunk at their table, and Airyn tell me that History doesn't look alternative enough for my taste. Which just makes me laugh. I tell him that I wasn't expecting her to be a good match for that, but that she and I have enough in common that i expect we'll be good friends.

When I get home I message History telling her i had a good time, and that we should get together for a crafts/arts festival sometime. She responds a while later saying that she too had fun, and that I've found one of her personal weakneses and Yes we should get together for a crafty festival.

So three days, two new female friends. One who is a good possibility for more then just friends. Both of these ladies identify as Bisexual, and will be fun and willing to go out to gay events with me. I see much fun times in my future with these ladies.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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  #30  
Old 11-20-2012, 10:35 AM
Numina Numina is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 139
Default Working on Communication

I've left off on my blogging recently. That's probably not such a good thing. I'll have to get back to it again, it really does help me keep clear. Even if I spend a lot of time rambling and writing in circles.

Yesterday was an over all good day. The only bad parts are my struggles with insomnia (or work shift sleep disorder which ever works for you).
The weekend however had some serious drama that was very disappointing, frustrating, and made me sad when I was having a good day/evening before the drama began.

Since this is where I often find myself when I'm feeling down, frustrated, or angry within my poly world I'm sure I will come back and write about what happen. On the plus side Airyn and I talked a lot about what happen, about communicating better with each other. This is what I would rather talk about. My suggested working on communication. I explained that often it is his word choice that gets my back up. That the activities we are talking about don't upset me, but the way he chooses to explain his communication with Chipmunk, or express his concerns/views that makes me back away from something that I am actually ok with.

For example:
1 - I am ok with Chipmunk and Airyn taking a shower with the understanding that Sex will occur while I am at home (in another room). The sex doesn't bother me, but making a joke saying that Chipmunk and I are demanding in the bedroom, when I have been very selfless recently is tasteless, and not going to make me feel very good about being compared to Chipmunk. She was taking a shower before going to work, on a day that she would also be having uninterrupted intimacy and sex with Airyn after I leave for work that night. Where as my physical need for intimacy (and sexual release) wasn't taken care of recently.

2a - I talked with Airyn several weeks ago about the possibility of getting a hotel room for a night. Specifically for his birthday. Originally I was suggesting that he and I get a room for the night. Before finishing the conversation I suggested that maybe I should put Christina up in the hotel room as Airyn doesn't care for Hotel sex, and We'd probably prefer to have our space for ourselves for an evening. Airyns response basically was a big NO. Saying that it would be unfair to Chipmunk for us to get a room and cut her out of his birthday like that. I explained that I was not intending to cut her out of his birthday, and that it was unlikely that I'd get a room for the NIGHT of his birthday, and more likely to be the weekend before or after. He was still disgruntled about the idea. It seemed to me that he would eventually come around to it being a possibility, but was uncomfortable with the idea that Chipmunk would have to find alternate transportation to/from work if she was scheduled while we are in a room.

2b - Two weeks later I'm on vacation, and Chipmunk is very unhappy with the lack of time for intimacy, and cuddling with Airyn. Airyn shares my hotel Idea (keep in mind he has not yet told me that he considers it a possibility). At first Chipmunk is adamantly against it. Saying that it will never happen, can't happen ect. Then a few days later she comes back to Airyn and is asking where he'd want to stay, and is generally more open to the idea. After a bit of looking at the local options she is seeing it as a real possibility. Airyn is telling me this secondhand so i don't hear exactly what was said. But he relates to me that while they are talking about it. He tells her that he and I have talked about it, and that if they are going to "get a room" that he will "HAVE TO OFFER THAT TO ME as well". He also explains that because Chipmunk has less bills (money going out) that the two of them will be able to do this before he and I will.

2b - DO WHAT? Airyn is going to OFFER me a night alone with him? Whose Idea was this? Why should I agree to let the two of them go off for a hotel night alone if I'm not going to be able to do the same? (my initial reaction is very negative, upset, hurt) But I calmly nod and say yes we've talked about this, and yes I expected he would want to do the same with Chipmunk. I also tell him that I had been thinking he and I could get a room in a little city a few hours drive from his mom's and stay there before picking Wolf up (or Dropping her off) for a week during her Winter (after Christmas) vacation. Again I get a very negative response. He tells me it is highly unfair to be out of town for 3 or 4 days and leave Chipmunk with no way to go. I tell him I was talking about staying a single night and being gone for most of 2 days with a portion of that being driving time. That it is not my problem if Chipmunk still does not have a car (since she isn't saving towards getting a car). She is an adult and is capable of using the transportation available to any other adult without a vehicle. As in walking, or using the busing system. We live within walking distance of her job. She can also ask for a ride to/from work from a co-worker. All of these are option I have had to use myself. By the next day when I had time to consider and process this conversation I am really pissed about how Airyn told Chipmunk that he'd have to offer me the same thing. And not happy with the suggestion that they will be able to get a room before he and I will, and following this to a larger conclusion I realize that he is also telling me that they will be able to do this more often than I will be able to afford.

Then things get full of drama this weekend (Nov 16th) and I tell him that after that conversation and the way he worded things with Chipmunk I no longer have any interest in offering this opportunity. Not because the sex, and/or intimacy is a problem, but because he'll be offering me something that should be available to me to begin with. That his word choice leaves me feeling as if I am not very important to him. He then attempts to tell me that what he actually said to Chipmunk is different. I tell him, but what you told me is this and this is what I have to work with. Changing how you explain yourself and your conversation with Chipmunk after I am upset with the wording and how that made me feel is too late. I can't see any new word choice used to express what was said as being anything but what I was told to begin with. I was using this as an example to Airyn of his issues with communication. I point out that I'm not the best either, but that I am making changes, I'm still working on it. That these types of communication from him just keep coming.

If his initial expression, "I will have to offer Numina the same thing" is true, then I have NO incentive to offer him and Chipmunk more time and space, and every incentive to get Airyn to work more on US.

One of the things I have started doing is to tell Airyn "I liked hearing that" when he says something that makes me feel good. So that there is less confusion on my verbal communication needs/wants/likes. Often I can not tell him right away what he has said that I do not like. Mostly because I am much more emotional these days, and I don't like getting upset. I would rather wait and become more calm before bringing it up. Something I do to help with calming myself is to write. Either in this blog, or in an email addressed to Airyn that I don't intend to send.

Another thing Reading these forums has helped in many ways. Even when the circumstances, or the reasoning behind advice doesn't fit. I have found many pieces of advice to be re-workable for my own life situation, and have begun putting somethings into practice. I was reading a thread about a disconnect between emotions and sex, and read a lot of advice that while I don't have this disconnect, and neither does Airyn. I can use to help repair the damage to my self confidence, and self esteem. These are things that HAVE to be fixed within ME and can not be fixed by Airyn. He and I have talked about it here and there. So he knows I'm still struggling, and that I would like him to keep in mind that these are still issue when we are all together. Because he can reduce my uncomfortableness, and can offer intimacy that allows me to feel wanted/needed/loved by him while Chipmunk is in the room. This way I feel less like our affection has to be hidden, and that therefore something is not right about it. So what am I doing? I have begun reaching out (Despite the fact that my lack of self confidence make it difficult) to offer Airyn small intimacies when WE are not alone. Like holding his Hand, or kissing his neck for a second. Small short piece. Making these little things something I aim to offer when they are really outside my current comfort zone should help repair my comfort zone so that these are more habit, and fun, then stressful, and scary. Less something for me to miss, and more something for me to look forward to.

I still have a lot of work to do for me. And I am starting to get Airyn to see that he has some work to do as well. That not responding is a lack of communication, where poor word choice is ineffective communication. We've agreed that when I'm venting and angry, but the issues I'm venting about are obviously important. Instead of Airyn just listening and not saying anything he should at least say that perhaps I have a point. That he needs time to consider it, and think about how he feels/ how it effects him/ how it might effect Chipmunk, and that he will talk with me about it in a couple days when I'm less upset and more calm. I also explained that this means he does have to come back to me and be willing to talk about the issues, that he can't say that and then just conveniently forget about it. I also asked him to think more about what he is saying and how it could come across as a negative to me in my more emotional situation. I told him I don't expect him to be perfect, but that it would be nice to see him obviously working to make this easier, for US.
__________________
Bi-sexual female

Married to my high school sweat heart (20 year relationship). Talked about Poly, but put the idea off and had a kid instead. Stumbled into an FFM (Vee) that became an FMF (Vee).

No longer dateing my husbands Girlfriend.

Airyn: My husband (Straight)
Chipmunk: My x-GF, My husbands GF (Straight)
Wolf: my Daughter with Airyn
Boots: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
History: Social/Friend dating (Bi) Married
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age difference, ffm, fmf, third partner, triad fallout, triads

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