Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 10-27-2012, 02:44 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 1,647
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lydia1 View Post
Oh! When you guys mentioned a blog post I at first didn't know what you meant. I thought you were saying something like - tell your story to livejournal. I didn't realize that was a whole category here on the Forum. If you guys think this definitely fits better there, I'll ask the moderators to move it.

I don't think THIS thread needs to be moved there. I think you should start a NEW thread there to continue writing things that you may not require people to pick apart and give you free advice about. I think it would be beneficial for you personally. You could have John and Sarah read about what's going on with you without it seeming like folks are ganging up on them. That's what tends to happen in discussion/advice threads, even though it's usually coming from a place of wanting to help whoever started a particular thread. Blogs are primarily for the purpose of reflection, identification, and neutral commentary.

That's just what I think, and you don't have to do it if you don't feel like it.

Last edited by BoringGuy; 10-27-2012 at 02:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-28-2012, 01:53 AM
Lydia1 Lydia1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 28
Default

New development.

So last night Sarah had a rough night, feeling like a stranger in her own home as Mike continues to not talk to her much, and she called John. They talked for an hour or so. Phone calls are totally cool, but afterwards while texting with Sarah I told her that both John and I love and support her, but there is a Mike-sized hole in her life right now, and I don't want her to fill it with John. She said she understood and agreed that wasn't what she wants to happen either.

Then today John tells me that the break he and Sarah planned to take after November 4th, they are now starting to think they shouldn't bother to take, because it won't help anything and it will only hurt Sarah, since she feels isolated.

So I said to John - exactly how did you and Sarah come to the conclusion, without talking to me or Mike about it, that a break wouldn't help anything? And also, Sarah has two close friends (other than me) and a mother she can call and talk to about all of this. She's not alone, and depending on John as her primary source of support isn't helpful. It is essentially John filling the Mike-sized hole.

Then (and here's the kicker) he tells me that because he has no one but Sarah and me in his support circle that HE can't go without her, and that makes a break impossible. Major red flag on the field. I was okay with him needing her to be a part of his life, but for her to be his primary source of support is totally not okay.

So I told him he needs to expand his circle of support, with a therapist, a friend he confides in, or some combination, because the break is no longer his call. It will happen, or we will get a divorce.

So now I'm sitting in a bar, drinking wine, and preparing for all possible futures over a cup of soup.

Am I being unreasonable?
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 10-28-2012, 02:27 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 1,647
Default

I think they're trying to steamroll right over you. Good for you for standing your ground.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 10-28-2012, 05:05 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,597
Default

A "time out" is NOT unreasonable in all this drama.

There is a difference between what feels "urgent" and what is "important."

GG
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 10-28-2012, 07:44 PM
Lydia1 Lydia1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 28
Default

Thanks for your feedback, guys.

When I came home last night, John told me he thought about it and agreed that a break should happen, but he didn't know when. I said - how about November 4th. But this can't just be a break from sexting and alone time, it needs to be a break from all communication so they can both develop coping skills and not be so dependent on each other for support.

Then I asked him to tell me exactly what his needs are, which he had never really done. He started by saying he needed his texts with Sarah to be completely un-limited (in frequency and type of content), and a couple of other things. And I stopped him and said - do you absolutely need to have a romantic relationship with Sarah - meaning that without that need being met, he and I would get a divorce.

He said he thought his answer was yes, but he's not completely sure.

So I clairified - so you mean that even if it we determine that a continued relationship with Sarah would destroy us, you'd choose Sarah over us?

He said he'd have to think about it.

I absolutely need our relationship to be our first priority - for no other relationship to come before ours. So right now we are on the edge of a knife for ending our marriage.

I was so upset and crying so hard that I couldn't breathe, and my limbs started to get pins and needles. John got me a bag to breathe in and helped me to the couch. Today we have plans with friends (including Sarah) so I'm just trying to hold it all together the best I can. I gave Sarah the short short version of what's happened, but with everybody around that's all I had time for.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 11-01-2012, 06:24 AM
Lydia1 Lydia1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 28
Default

I am so devastated.

It's been days, and he still can't decide if our marriage is his top priority. He says I'm being impatient and that I should wait for the break to happen on Nov 4th and for us to just take it from there. Maybe he's right. What do you think?

I think the break needs to happen regardless, but I also think he needs to determine what his absolute needs are. He needs to decide if we're his top priority - that if a continued romantic relationship with Sarah would destroy us that he'd end it. He says it's complicated. I don't think it is - I think it's just painful and difficult. He doesn't want to say he can live without Sarah, because he doesn't want to have to. And he knows if he says he absolutely can't live without Sarah and would choose her over us, that we'll get divorced. So I feel like he's stringing me along, hoping that there's some situation in which he can have us both, but where he doesn't have to say that our marriage is a priority.

How long should someone in his position need to know what they can't live without? Am I being unreasonable?
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 11-01-2012, 01:31 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,597
Default

I do not know what else is going on over there. But you just had this serious conversation...
Quote:
So I clarified - so you mean that even if it we determine that a continued relationship with Sarah would destroy us, you'd choose Sarah over us?

He said he'd have to think about it.
on 10/27/2012.

And you want him to make a major life decision in the middle of drama (the Sarah and Mike crazy), in the middle of NRE (John and Sarah) and in the middle of serious struggle but not as crazy sounding as the other people because you at least talk (John and Lydia) about whether to get a divorce? At nearly midnight last night/this morning on 11/1 when you last posted? When the break (John and Sarah) is happening on 11/4?

I would let the break come about, breathe. I think some of your "ACK!" is understandable but would YOU want to make a major life decision without sorting it all out? He's sounding like he's asking for air, clear space/time. That doesn't sound horrible to me.

I know you WANT a firm decision so you don't have to be in "Hang Time at the Forge" squirming with uncomfortable like fire is nipping at your toes while you hang in the air.

If it is that important to you to be free of squirmy --- YOU could decide to end it. Esp if you feel strong about stricy monogamy (ideal) or a strict primary-secondary polyship with you as the primary (what seems to be your ideal compromise.) That things are not ideal right now -- that's something else.

If you are willing to wait and see -- ask for reassurance that he's going to take it seriously, going to think hard, cares for you and is taking you into consideration. If he's still willing to be in romantic relationship with you even if he doesn't know the shape of it yet. A rough date for a serious talk if not final answer -- perhaps appt with counselor around then to help you guys sort. The bottom of November maybe? Those things you could reasonably ask for reassurance on.

It's not the ideal -- because I know you WANT a final answer. But perhaps that's a "could live with that much for now?" Right now you seem to want reassure/feedback.

I know this is a Time of Suckage. I know it is not like pick "win-lose" choices. It is choosing between "this sucks" and "this sucks." So which one is "this sucks but less because there's light at the end of tunnel eventually even if it sucks for now" and which one is "This sucks and it is just endless, ongoing, neverneding, suckage?" You are in a Time of Discernment for yourself.

But to ask him for absolute final answer? I dunno if that is reasonable. I do not know his personality or the circumstances. You cannot control another person's behavior.

You can only control yourself.

So it's kind of like you are at a place where you have to weigh out what you value most right now...

a) Your need to be comfortable and no longer "Ack!" feeling. The need to KNOW one way or another so you aren't hanging in the balance.

b) your need to be in romantic relationship to John.

c) your need to be in monoship or at least primary in a "V" situation in a romance

I know they are taking a break. Why don't YOU take a break? Everyone take a break? Each player off in their own corner to clear their head?

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 11-01-2012 at 01:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 11-01-2012, 01:47 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 1,647
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
I do not know what is going on over there.

(SNIP)

I know they are taking a break. Why don't YOU take a break? Everyone take a break? Each player off in their own corner to clear their head?

Galagirl
I think it's because she knows deep down that he's already made up his mind and it's not the answer she wants it to be. He's stalling around giving her that answer because he is hoping she will come around to his way of thinking. That would be the easiest thing, logistically speaking, for everyone.

We all know certain things deep down in ourselves, when we are still faced with choices to make externally. If John even felt a shred of possibility toward "a V with Lydia as absolute primary", he would be making sounds to that effect. He would be saying things like, "I really want to do whatever it takes to save our marriage, I just don't know if I'd be able to do it in practice because I love Sarah and don't want to see her hurt." Instead it's all, "I just can't decide, you're rushing me, my needs, my priorities, it's too complicated." Which is all grooovy and shit, but Lydia knows what the answer would be today, and it's the same one it will be next week or in two weeks or in a month, and she wants to get it over with. At the same time, both are holding out for the other one to change their mind.

This reminds me of another group on here from a while back, where the husband was pushing to have the girlfriend be a "co-primary", the wife wasn't having it, and now they are getting a divorce. I don't want to say who it is I'm thinking of, but if Lydia wants to know, I will PM her and tell her which thread(s) to read.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 11-01-2012, 05:14 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,597
Default

Quote:
I think it's because she knows deep down that he's already made up his mind and it's not the answer she wants it to be. He's stalling around giving her that answer because he is hoping she will come around to his way of thinking
That's what it sounds like to me.

Which is why I advise everyone take a break and time out all by themselves. So they can listen to the quiet inner voice. Get clear on what they are willing/not willing to do/accept. And find the courage to SPIT IT OUT. Otherwise it is going around in circles like everyone is "No, YOU go first." Nobody wants to go first and own their own wants, needs, and limits. Everyone wants to go second and be all "What I want depends on what THEY want."

John seems to want a polyship with Lydia and Sarah, but does not seem to clearly want to articulate "end of monoship." He may or may not want it ALSO to mean end of marriage. But he seems fearful to state "I want end of monoship" because Lydia feels strongly about monoship. Has stated as much -- even up to it is divorce if she cannot have monoship or at least primaryship.

But I don't hear she's particularly enthused with that "hybrid option." If you can't go there with enthusiasm, don't bother. Throw that option out. That's why I put it grey. There is nothing wrong with wanting monoship!

Lydia gets to make a value call -- value being with John, even in polyship more? Or value monoship more? It's a call that is hers to make.

Otherwise time keeps on ticking by. And sooner or later another player explodes like Mike did/does from the pressure. Then that solves things another kind of way.

Sigh.

I feel for you Lydia -- but seriously. Take a time out. Decide what YOU want MOST here.

a) Your need to be comfortable and no longer "Ack!" feeling. The need to KNOW one way or another so you aren't hanging in the balance. (ex: You break up with John. There. Sucks, but suckage with an ending in sight so you can reach for your next happiness. No more "ack, hanging in balance feeling.")

b) your need to be in romantic relationship to John. (ex: then you serve hang time while he sorts his shit out. Even if it feels yucky. Give John a deadline to present you with his offer. THEN you listen and discuss the offer he brings you. You may or may not accept the offer. But at least you know the suckage of hang time has an end in sight. No offer by deadline? You check out toward your next future happiness. Walk away from drama crazymaking things.)

c) your need to be in monoship or at least primary in a "V" situation in a romance (You could choose to get real clear on this (with John or future partner) and do NOT swing again knowing that emotions can throw a monkeywrench in there. You have learned something about yourself in a swing situation. )

It's hard to feel. But options seems pretty straightforward to me.

1) You decide you are done and get out NOW and leave crazymaking behind you. You move it toward your next future.

2) You decide how much more you are willing to hang around waiting. Giving John to the end of November to give you an offer to consider is not unreasonable to me. Accept, adjust and accept, or decline offer -- and you leave crazymaking behind you regardless what you pick. You move it toward your next future.

Move it forward. Step away from the crazy.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 11-01-2012 at 07:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 11-01-2012, 05:52 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 1,647
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
No more "ack, hanging in balance feeling.
Ordinarily, I don't care to use these emo-esque expressions, preferring to use words that have explicit definitions - but what you are referring to is definitely more of an "ugh" than an "ack".

"Ack" is something that applies when one is reacting in the acute sense to an unexpected unpleasant discovery and/or relatively short-term circumstance. "Ugh" is something that applies to the day-to-day disgust surrounding a denial of reality and/or enduring of an untenable situation over a relatively long-term period of time.

I just wanted to set you straight on that. Sorry to interrupt the flow of topic.

As you were.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
best friend, monogamy

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:16 PM.