Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 10-30-2012, 07:58 PM
Anneintherain's Avatar
Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 821
Default

Let's see..if I were in your place

If I didn't feel bad after her spending the night with her girlfriend, if she asked me to go spend some nights with her instead of me, and I am feeling fine about it, I might have us schedule 1 or 2 nights a week when she sleeps with her instead of me (while the gf is staying there only I mean, since its not a permanent move in, and hopefully it doesn't turn into that) If after a week or two I was comfortable with that and gf hadn't moved into a new place yet, I'd think about how I felt and be open seeing about a set 2 nights a week. (I would not volunteer this unless I was asked, its important that partners be able to ask for what they want, and it's easy for people to give more out of trying to be nice and then resent it) I wouldn't want to set the precedent to set that she spend more than a couple of nights a week with her, because after she moves out, well I wouldn't be OK with more than 2 date nights a week out with kids at home who need to be cared for.

I'd suggest not to negotiate things post sex or post argument however, and save those talks for early evening or weekends when your mind isn't being colored by being tired or overly relaxed.

I really hope the gf speaks with her husband and clears things up, it seems like you two are being put in an awkward position, and it sounds like something that could cause some problems for everybody.
__________________
Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 10-30-2012, 10:10 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraverySeeker View Post
. . . I do know he is understandably distraught by his wife leaving and demonstrably incapable of seeing her years of unhappiness with him as being unrelated to her new love for my wife.

I replied that I didn't think he was asking the right question; that it was probably too late for him to show a willingness to accept the relationship between our wives. The question he should be asking, I said, was not how to open their marriage but how to end their marriage as amicably as possible without scarring their two teenage boys.

I was under the impression that his wife had asked for a divorce. She has said that outcome seems inevitable - but she's said that to my wife, who relayed it to me, but has been much less forthright with him. So it looks like I spoke out of turn. "I guess you know much more than I, because she won't talk to me," he said.

Fuck.


That side of this situation is very unsettling to me, and I hate being pulled into the middle of it. Yes, he should know by now that his wife wants to end their relationship. But until she's unafraid to ask for divorce, he will continue to flail about, assume the separation is temporary, and say he'll try anything to get her back.
You should feel unsettled about this. Awhile back, I wanted to post something about the husband of your wife's now-gf, but internet connectivity issues prevented me from doing so. I just knew something like the conversation you described would eventually happen. Her husband has been a very convenient scapegoat. All along, he has been painted as the Bad Guy, a schmuck who made little or no effort to keep his wife happy. You and your wife eagerly hopped on that bandwagon and readily judged him. BUT ALL YOU HAD TO GO ON WAS HIS WIFE'S WORDS. People will twist a story any which way, when they want what they want. And this woman wants your wife's pussy.

She also wants out of her marriage, and found a way to convince you both what a bad dude she is married to, and what a martyr she was. Sheesh. But a marriage requires two people each contributing 100%, so it is never just one person to blame. If she wasn't happy, what was her part in it? She seems like someone who is avoiding any responsibility or taking a hard look at why she let her marriage fall apart, and now she only wants an escape into your wife's arms and into your happy home.

I have serious suspicions about this woman's ability to be honest about anything. I bet that, as long as she is involved with your wife, you and your wife will be fighting and at odds with each other more often. I would caution both you and your wife to keep more distance between you and her until her marriage issues are resolved and she is either in it and it is functioning and happy, or she is completely out of it. I think she is Trouble with a capital "T."

BIG RED FLAG!
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein

Last edited by nycindie; 10-30-2012 at 10:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 10-31-2012, 06:34 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: US
Posts: 1,305
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraverySeeker View Post
On another front, the estranged other husband called me out of the blue late last week to ask me when my wife and I decided to open our marriage. Truthfully, the thought never occurred to us before my wife and his fell for one another. But although I do not know him, I do know he is understandably distraught by his wife leaving and demonstrably incapable of seeing her years of unhappiness with him as being unrelated to her new love for my wife.

I replied that I didn't think he was asking the right question; that it was probably too late for him to show a willingness to accept the relationship between our wives. The question he should be asking, I said, was not how to open their marriage but how to end their marriage as amicably as possible without scarring their two teenage boys.

I was under the impression that his wife had asked for a divorce. She has said that outcome seems inevitable - but she's said that to my wife, who relayed it to me, but has been much less forthright with him. So it looks like I spoke out of turn. "I guess you know much more than I, because she won't talk to me," he said.

Fuck.

That side of this situation is very unsettling to me, and I hate being pulled into the middle of it. Yes, he should know by now that his wife wants to end their relationship. But until she's unafraid to ask for divorce, he will continue to flail about, assume the separation is temporary, and say he'll try anything to get her back.
I don't have the strong reaction NYCindie did about this part of your post. I don't see the red flags she does. It is unfortunate that you got put in the middle inadvertently. However, your wife's GF should have informed her husband she is filing or has filed for divorce and they are done. No hope. Kaput. She may have good reasons for not talking to him or she may be afraid for herself. But if she is only afraid of hurting his feelings by telling him they are done and that she is/has/will be filing divorce papers - that's not good. That may be a pattern of avoiding pain and unpleasantness. Her husband sounds completely clueless but she may not have wanted to rock the boat either. Or maybe not. But be aware.

As for you, I realize you feel for this guy and want to help all involved. But he is fishing for information - and that information may end up in the divorce papers. He may be looking for something to damn your wife's GF with. You can't help him at this point. It's too late and you've basically picked 'sides'. I would not talk to him again. Just tell him you wish him the best, he needs to contact his wife and hang up.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 10-31-2012, 07:08 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,029
Default

Quote:
I was under the impression that his wife had asked for a divorce. She has said that outcome seems inevitable - but she's said that to my wife, who relayed it to me, but has been much less forthright with him. So it looks like I spoke out of turn. "I guess you know much more than I, because she won't talk to me," he said.
Ugh. Back to the drawing board.

I go back to previous advice from post #2.


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
d) a postponement of a deeper relationship between these two women entirely until the other marriage is resolved or dissolved
Best and cleanest. Nothing wrong with being friends and her finishing up with the OLD romance configuration with her husband appropriately (monogamous relationship) before beginning a new one with the husband (open polyship or a divorce, depending) and THEN a new one with your wife (as girlfriends) and a new one with you (as metamour).

In those shoes? I'd hope my DH had some self respect. That he felt he was worth waiting for and dating nicely and appropriately. Tell the potential person something like

"I care for you too. But my wife and I have ethical agreements to meet before taking on new partners. So go home and sort your thing out with your husband. Patch it up to Open Well, or Break Up Well first. So things are clean. THEN look me up. Don't be involving me and my wife in drama if you claim to love me so. That is not loving behavior toward ME. That is also not respectful behavior to my wife, your potential metamour. Disrespect to my wife is disrespect to me. Love me and respect me enough to date me nicely and appropriately."
FINISH with the old before moving on with a new. So not cool.

GG
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:06 PM
BraverySeeker BraverySeeker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 22
Default

So my wife and I had our first session with the poly friendly therapist. I'm not sure how I feel about how it went. I sure was under the microscope. Was told that I was "a beautiful man" but one who may not be as OK with everything as he thinks/wants to be.

I challenged the therapist a few times, even questioning the evolutionary psychology stuff she was throwing out about men being wired with jealousy to preserve their paternal claims, which the authors of Sex at Dawn quite effectively call BS (which maybe I ought not to have mentioned in so many alphabetical letters). Althought I was trying to answer her questions thoughtfully and fully, nearly breaking down with tears at one point, she said she felt like she was "pulling teeth," told me to "bring it" with my questions about the process before she asked flat out, "Why are you in therapy if you think you've already answered these questions?"

I've never had therapy but push and pull like this, especially at the first session, is to be expected, right? She's looking to break me down, and while I expect and welcome that, I would prefer to have more say over the pace.

Among other things, the therapist extracted from me opposition to my wife spending nights sleeping with the GF and not me. Not that that was difficult to extract.

The GF left our house as scheduled, after spending five nights in the guest room, with my wife for one of them. Now this weekend the GF is moving back into her house with her husband and teen sons to at least see if the family can be kept intact. She reportedly doesn't have high hopes but doesn't want to one day regret not trying.

I expect that the other husband will welcome that but will also want her to stop dating my wife. Having just spent much of the past week uncomfortable and anxiety ridden in my own house when the GF was in it, I'm in so morose and pessimistic a mood at the moment I'm in danger of asking for the same. I just had an argument with my wife, in fact, about how the therapist may be right that I'm not OK with all this. It was really an argument about she and I not talking (or making love) in the few days since our therapy session.

I told her, like a whiny little bitch, how I see her "making time" for the GF while our time together only diminishes. Plans for a date night fell through for lack of a sitter, and her suggestion we watch a movie after the kids go to bed is unappealing, knowing she'll be asleep before the end of the opening credits.

All I'm saying is the GF is not the only one who needs to get her shit together.

They dynamics are about to change, I suspect. With the GF giving her marriage another go. She's apparently less sure that will work out than she is convinced her relationship with my wife will stand the test of time. I, however, have not heard directly what her intentions may be. She has not proven able to communicate with me about these issues, so I've had to rely on my wife as the messenger.

How do metamours best learn to communicate and tolerate one another? I expect I can trust this woman, I just increasingly feel she and I need to be able to talk frankly and work through some issues about our expectations.

That will likely need to wait until she and her husband can work on their marriage together and through joint therapy, which they've apparently agreed to do. No doubt she'll try to get him to accept her ongoing relationship with my wife, although the nature of that may need to change, too. Addressing my needs will drop down to a third tier of priorities for the GF, which is fine with me.

But if I think there are unresolved issues between me and the GF, why wouldn't her husband feel the need to hash out ground rules with my wife? I've been semi-sympathetic to his plight all along, but I've also been propagandized by the ladies into seeing him as little more than a condescending and vengeful prick. He may well be that, but at some point the GF chose him and stayed with him for some 20 years. All the same, I'm not eager to deal with him directly or see my wife have to.

This poly stuff is complicated. I'm starting to understand the attraction of emotionally detached swinging, although that's not my/our bag. I'd call it a "cluster fuck," but that sounds a lot more fun than what's actually happening.

Last edited by BraverySeeker; 11-04-2012 at 04:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 11-05-2012, 05:31 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraverySeeker View Post
But if I think there are unresolved issues between me and the GF, why wouldn't her husband feel the need to hash out ground rules with my wife? I've been semi-sympathetic to his plight all along, but I've also been propagandized by the ladies into seeing him as little more than a condescending and vengeful prick. He may well be that, but at some point the GF chose him and stayed with him for some 20 years. All the same, I'm not eager to deal with him directly or see my wife have to.
Because he's not in relationship with your wife! Why would either of you expect to approach and lay down rules for your wives' girlfriends to follow? They have their own relationship, you have yours, he has his.

You manage your marriage and set boundaries for yourself and your wife. He does the same for his marriage and his wife. These boundaries should apply whether your wife is involved with this woman or someone else. If your wife can have a relationship with someone and respect the boundaries she and you agreed to, great. If his wife can have a relationship with someone and respect the boundaries she agreed to with him, great.

Is it that you think it everything has to be managed as a group? Not unless you're all living together communally. But I would say you are all a very lo-o-o-ong way from that! I hope you do not intend to let the gf move in with you and your wife, as that will present a whole new set of problems and you are obviously not ready for something that! It's generally advised to wait at least a year before a secondary partner moves in and becomes part of a household.

You can only benefit from being very cautious. And perhaps it is quite reasonable to ask your wife to take a break from being with this woman (who, as I said, doesn't seem to be totally honest or very trustworthy IMHO) while you devote yourselves to therapy (whether with this therapist or another) and addressing issues.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 11-07-2012, 07:37 PM
MeeraReed MeeraReed is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: East Coast, U.S.
Posts: 351
Default

I would try to find another therapist. I know it was probably hard to find this poly-friendly therapist--but something about how you describe your first session with her sounds really "off" to me. Her approach and her attitude towards you sound wrong.

--Speaking as someone who spent several critical months with the wrong therapist, but felt too guilty to stop seeing her because I thought I was right to keep pushing myself and keep facing hard "truths."
__________________
Single, straight, female, solo, non-monogamous.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 12-18-2012, 01:18 PM
BraverySeeker BraverySeeker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 22
Default

Quick update, as I have not been on this forum for quite some time.

Things are good on the poly front here. A couple weeks back my wife's GF and I met one-on-one for coffee and to try to get to know/become more comfortable with eachother. I think we accomplished that. When it came to sharing our feelings for my wife, we both shed some tears.

It took some coaxing to get it out of her, but her primary concern was for what she perceived as my "veto power." When I asked for her expectations she said, "I don't think I can have any."

I assured her that I do not feel I have the ability or right to stand in the way of their relationship. I tried to impart how I have loved my wife since I was 14 (I am now 42) and how that love has changed; deepened and intensified in surprising ways. I am so grateful for her in my life that I can not imagine denying her what her heart desires, which is no longer only me. I told the GF I felt profoundly connected to her for her ability to see and love the qualities in my primary partner that I see and love.

I assured her that they would have the time together they both desire.

She's separating from her husband for good this time, which means she'll soon be in her own apartment where she and my wife can spend time they haven't had but want together. That will be a game changer, no doubt. But I think I'm ready to handle my wife spending a regular night or two a week away from me to be with her GF.

The compersion creature I am most of the time requires constant care and feeding, I admit, but it's getting easier.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 12-21-2012, 02:35 AM
MeeraReed MeeraReed is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: East Coast, U.S.
Posts: 351
Default

I'm glad things are going better. You sound like you are doing an awesome job with caring for your "compersion creature." Great image!
__________________
Single, straight, female, solo, non-monogamous.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:24 PM.