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  #71  
Old 10-23-2012, 04:17 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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I thought of something else to say after going back and re-reading this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
Agani, I so sorry. I should have never said that about maturity. It was flip and I am sorry.

I hope you guys don't kick me off! I am old (42) and not good with internet forums I am just trying to get my point across. Do you really think my marginalization of people who I call immature is a fair comparison to ableist??
I think your remark that 42 is "old" is a fair comparison to your marginalization of people whom you judge to be "immature".

As I mentioned, I am 42 and I don't consider myself "old". I know of individuals who are in their 50's and 60's who do not consider themselves "old". My own friggin' GRANDFATHER was a self-professed "young man of 90 years" when he died this past summer - he was crippled, with dementia (non-alzheimer's), in a wheel chair, couldn't dress or bathe himself, and he was a "STRONG, YOUNG MAN OF 90 YEARS OLD". So, I don't appreciate you MARGINALIZING me, my grandfather, or any of my YOUNG FRIENDS with your AGEIST use of words. How DARE you call me "OLD"!

Just because you go around judging people does not mean they are always judging you. Sometimes they are. But between the way you think 42 is "old" and your husband's girlfriend is "immature" because her priorities are not identical to yours - you need to GROW THE FUCK UP and examine your own shortcomings before you go around projecting them onto everyone else.

Last edited by BoringGuy; 10-23-2012 at 04:24 PM.
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  #72  
Old 10-23-2012, 07:19 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Ok, now I'm giggling.
I'm ONLY 37.
Sitting here with my oh so adorable grandson in my lap, giggling.
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  #73  
Old 10-23-2012, 07:54 PM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
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Ha! That was a joke!!! Some people I have met are wickedly smart at forums, and texting. Since, I didn't use a computer until I was 30, I find it nearly impossible to communicate (particularly with strangers) not face to face!

Geeesh lighten up! Hi to your grandson loving radiance!

Boring Guy: I have been critized here for offending people which if FINE. But when you are ABLEIST no one will step up against that.

I want to ask Vix (who I greatly admire) how do you fight for a political group without it sounding like you are making it into us and them? How can I speak out against ableism with sounding like it's a personal offense?

Gala Girl - your advice helped me so much. If you are not a counselor you should be!!

I believe overall that people here are choosing to pick what I said and make what they want of it. Things that I apologized for and tried to explain. I am also finding very little support as a person with a disability or people who are very liberal being aware that that is a civil rights issue.

I don't know why I keep trying: I guess I hope someone here will at least see my side
1. My comment about immaturity was not well put and unfair. I was talking specifically about one person, my husband's girlfriend, and my reservations with her.
2. i never did claim to be an expert on AIDS. I just wanted to point out that HIV is still very dangerous.
3. The healthy issue -I see as ableism not my personal problem.
4, the age thing was a joke about my own non-tech savvyness.
5. Sex parities don't even bother me. I just don't want the in MY life.

Please try to engage what I'm actually saying.
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  #74  
Old 10-23-2012, 10:17 PM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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Hi, thought I would chime in as an employment counselor for the developmentally disabled. I am sorry that you felt marginalized by Boring Guys's comment. I personally did not find it ableist, but I respect your right to feel what you feel. I think the problem here is that instead of owning your feelings and using non violent communication, you called him ableist. That was not particulalry endearing or constructive. Try learning about non violent communication. It may help with your husband as well.

As for the sex parties, you can have your opinions, but as far as not having them in your life, I don't know. Maybe for that one aspect you should have a DAT policy? Because as long as they are dating, it will be in your life, even peripherally and could come up in conversation. You cannot ask a metamour to stop participating in something you don't like just because your perception of it is negative. Your husband can choose not to participate but that does not change much since I am sure they will still talk about it. Also, he may grow to resent the agreement to box up his more adventurous sexual nature to cater to your sensibilities. I know Runic Wolf resented losing the bdsm aspect of his first poly relationship when I discovered his lover was a cowgirl and flipped shit. He and I have some different kink needs that overlap in some areas, but the situation tainted my perspective and desire to explore those areas for years.
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  #75  
Old 10-23-2012, 10:37 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
I want to ask Vix (who I greatly admire) how do you fight for a political group without it sounding like you are making it into us and them? How can I speak out against ableism with sounding like it's a personal offense?

Gala Girl - your advice helped me so much. If you are not a counselor you should be!!

1. My comment about immaturity was not well put and unfair. I was talking specifically about one person, my husband's girlfriend, and my reservations with her.

5. Sex parities don't even bother me. I just don't want the in MY life.

Please try to engage what I'm actually saying.
I only quoted what I was going to reply to.
I'm not Vix-but in my experience, and in my opinion on this blog-it's not a matter of you sounding like you have a personal offense per se that is the issue.
Anyone fighting an issue of discrimination has a personal offense, even if it is on someone else's behalf. That's not a bad thing.

The key is in recognizing that we ALL have these issues and therefore none of us is better than another, but we are in fact all capable of learning from one another.

Galagirl rocks. I'm so glad she appeared on the board!

Your reservations with your husband's girlfriend may be legitimate, but your explanations for why you see her as you do were not. That is why so many people have tried to press past those explanations. Maybe she is immature-but you gotta dig deep in yourself to find out why you care.
The key here is-you can ONLY CHANGE YOURSELF and no one else. So, the answer to any issue is deciding what change you need to make in yourself in order to be able to be happy in the situation (I'll leave the million examples of possible changes to others to describe).

Sex parties aren't something I want in my life either. Nor are fb's. But, my husband is interested in having a fb. SO-I have to decide what I am willing to accept in my life if I want him in my life.
In my situation, the deal is-he can have fb's if he wants-but he can't bring them home, or around the kids or I.
That's my terms.
He can choose to accept my terms or not.
If he accepts, we remain a couple and he schedules a 24 hour period a week to be out doing whatever it is he does with his fb's.
If he doesn't accept-we separate.

So-if sex parties are a no for you, you need to set your terms-and then lay them out in a calm and agreeable fashion for him so he can decide if he wants to accept or not.
THEN-you have to accept his choice and the consequences that come from that.

Which is not say that you two can't discuss myriad possible compromises.

I personally find it very helpful to figure out for myself what my soft boundaries are (ones I may compromise on given the right circumstances) and my hard boundaries are (ones that are non-negotiable). Before I try to converse. Then, I lay out for him my non-negotiables first-because those are deal breakers. Once we've concluded where things stand with those, then we can move on to the ones that may be negotiable.

For example, somewhat off topic-just to give you an idea of how you might go from here regarding the sex parties topic:

Not having fuck buddies brought around me and the kids is non negotiable.
But-him having fuck buddies is negotiable and what day or how often he see's them is negotiable.

My bedroom being off limits is ACTUALLY non-negotiable, because if I happened to become close friends with his girlfriend (he doesn't currently have one), then I might be ok with her being in our room. In fact, he did have a girlfriend who used our room when she was here with him-and that wasn't a problem for me.

However, not moving into our home without full agreement from myself, my boyfriend and my husband-absolutely non-negotiable.

STI testing done and shared before sex-NON NEGOTIABLE.

So, you don't want anything to do with sex parties-figure out what exactly it is you want to avoid.
Is it not wanting to hear about it?
It is not wanting to see it?
Is it the risk factor of STI's? (for me-this would be my concern and a healthy but heavy discussion of stricter safer-sex practices may be enough to allow me to compromise on his involvement with them and me.)

What exactly is the concrete issue that is bothering you? Then work your boundaries up from there.

For example, if my husband wanted to go-but wasn't intending to have sex with anyone but an already agreed upon partner-I don't care. I don't want to hear the details about it-but I'm not concerned about the STI issue. But-we have some pretty strict understandings regarding STI testing (ongoing) for partners as well as use of protection. If those weren't in place, we'd have issues with poly and sex parties wouldn't even be discussable!

Grandson is now napping. I LOVE that kid! Swimming when he wakes up with him and my two youngest (5 and 12 yrs) then he goes home to mommy-who will be thrilled to have been free to take a shower alone and wash her hair without him in the tub with her.
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  #76  
Old 10-23-2012, 10:57 PM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
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[I'm going to do just a couple of posts -

Boring Guy. I completely empathize with your anger over the blind guy's reaction. I have witnessed that situation too. My blind friends have told me that this anger derives from people constantly approaching them all in good spirits, but they are touched, even moved in unsafe ways by people who don't realize that blind people know what they are doing? It's a complex issue, because people TRULY WANT TO HELP. But blind people have told me they are coming from the perspective that they have been frightened, annoyed, and put into danger by people with good intensitions. I think the frustration merely comes from the fact that my blind friends have to me people think they are incapable.

In your post (tell me if I'm wrong) I felt that you felt people with cP are unhealthy and not in control of their bodies. CP is a neurological disorder causing different movement. It's not degenerative and not an illness or a disease. I have mild cP and therefore am in "full capability of my body" my body is just different from yours.

People who use wheelchairs tend to want to be called wheelchair users. There look at the wheelchair as something they use, they are not confined nor bound - they don't sleep, eat, watch TV, pee or fuck in the chair (unless that is their kink) Some people need their chair more than others - but a chair is a vehicle.

In the WIKI for disability terms it says this about lame

Lame. An antiquated reference to difficulty walking or moving.
The term has since been adopted into urban slang to generally refer to something or someone as "meaningless" or "without worth."
[edit]

The word has transformed into meaning "not cool" but derives from a put down to PWD, therefore "not cool"

I hope I have owned some of my own issues. I do tend to think of people with disabilities as more at a disadvantage. I own this. I can be silly making snap judgements on people that are unfair. I own this. Being here has reminded me that everyone is suffering and marginalized in their own way. Thank you.
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  #77  
Old 10-23-2012, 11:05 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Thumbs up.

My sister frequently uses a wheelchair due to issues with her feet (too complicated for me to fully understand, much less explain).

I don't know what CP stands for. Cerebral Palsy? I'm guessing out of left field.

But it sounds like some of the same complications that my stepdad deals with from his Parkinson's. His body sends the wrong messages-so his hands/arms shake at times and he has trouble gripping things that are small. The most frustrating for him is that he can't always get his mouth to move the way he needs to in order to make the words that he is thinking-but his brain is FINE and he gets SO frustrated!

My friend is deaf and has cerebral palsy. He doesn't use a wheelchair. He walks very differently-almost more like he's dancing-or at least that's how I've always thought of it.
We attended a dance together years ago when I was in college the first time around. He can't hear the music but he can feel the bass-so he LOVES songs that have heavy bass.
Anyway-it was interesting watching the difference in how people reacted to him on the dance floor-versus how they reacted when he was just walking through the halls.
The motions that left them feeling awkward around him elsewhere, were similar to everyone else's motions on the dance floor-and so they didn't bring a lot of attention his way.

Anyway, I never really thought much about his cerebral palsy outside of that reference and the fact that I learned sign language from him-and some of the things I took for granted, weren't actually part of the signs-but were extraneous motions his body makes that had nothing to do with sign language,
so when I was trying to communicate with other deaf people, they would sometimes stare at me in consternation as I signed-because my motions weren't making sense to them.
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