Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10-22-2012, 01:47 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,054
Default

I'm not arguing STD "seriousness level" here. I see that things are important to you. I accept it. So I'm coming from the place of -- alright. How can you get what you need when negotiating with DH so you you can come to compromise/agreement/agree-to-disagree?

I took the liberty of taking out extra details so I could try to get to the heart of the message. My apologies if I am not in the right ball park.

Quote:
Last night, we went out with the GF and it came out that they had had sex in front of people at a sex party. I am really upset by sex parties because it is really difficult for me to conceptualize that these parties are safe and innocent. My husband also lied to me and downplayed the party because he knew I'd be upset. So, he put me and his lover in an awkward position.
So that is 3 problems.

1) That he goes to places you think are not safe. What do you fear will happen to him? What do you fear will happen to you? Some kind of STD transmission? Something else? What does he need to do so that you can feel safe about his going there? Where is the happy medium? (more on that below)

2) He minimizes / lies to you to avoid your reaction. Why is he doing that? Do you have some responsibility there?
a) Is that a natural habit of his? To not tell the full truth?

b) Is it a response to YOUR natural habit thing of how you respond? Do you wig out at him and then he would rather avoid conflict in future?
How do you want to receive difficult information? Does he know your preference? Can he execute your preference in delivery of information?

3) Being the hinge person with the two ladies and not putting them in awkward spots. Is he aware he puts you in awkward? Does she feel awkward? How do you report awkward to him? How does he prefer to receive this information? Have you discussed his "hinge person" role?

Quote:
I like his GF a lot but I find her lifestyle immature. I care because my husband is so passive and so forgetful, that I feel constantly burdened by running things. I feel like his girlfriend is another person who benefits by me 'running things" i.e. she never has to deal with his messes and all.
What messes? Could you stop running things /cleaning up messes? Let husband deal with his own stuff more?

What is it that you have to run for him that you do not want to be running? Which parts could be let go of?

Is it really running things or could it be not receiving back support/nurture enough?

Could your husband be a better hinge? Does he spill TMI too much at you? Where is the TMI wall at?

Where is the happy medium there?

Quote:
I think I am very sexually conservative and very interested in intimacy without sex. My husband cannot relate to people in that way. He is very sexual and wild and I think he can only be close through a sexual relationship.
So you lean to the poly and he leans to the swing side? Of open relationship models?

Quote:
I guess what I am asking is 1. Is it possible for two people who are so opposite to stay together?
I have no idea. Are you thinking of breaking up?

Quote:
2. Can I be more accepting of sex parities? Are they really more benign than I imagine?
I do not know what you imagine. I cannot mind reader.

What do YOU need to be able to be more accepting of sex parties? Can you articulate these items so that DH can execute them?

What does husband need to do to assure you of sex party safety? You cannot control his behavior. You can control yours. You can ASK him to consider doing things but only after you articulate them. For example -- Are you no longer going to be fluid bonded to him? Wear condoms when you have sex? What needs to happen so you can feel mentally safe, emotionally safe, physically safe, spiritual safe with this?

Make a list --
you both attending these things and you are together
.
.
.
.
he attends these things and you guys break up on the other
Pin down the extremes and than color in all the in between places. Where is the happy medium you both can be ok at? And what needs to happen to park it there?

Or maybe the bottom line is that this is a dealkbreaker issue for you. No amount of anything would have you accept sex party stuff. Is that where you are at? (Every has a limit. Is this where one of yours is? Is DH aware?)

Quote:
3. How do I come to terms with not being jealous of the GF freedom?
What do you think the GF has that you do not? Her freedom from WHAT? His laundry?

What is it you want more of that you think she has? Try to elaborate there too. Maybe that could give clues to how to resolve that one.

HTH!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-22-2012 at 02:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-22-2012, 01:49 AM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
Default

I don't want to fight. I am wondering what makes you believe you have more experiences in the queer world than I do...OK I guess if you are a bi female - you definitely do - but that doesn't mean I have less experience being close to gay men. I would say that only experience I don't have is the actual sex act.

I don't see how our experiences are similar. Are you disabled? Do you know anything about that prejudice first hand? Have you studied disability studies? Are you friends with people with severe mental and physical disabilities? I am not sure how we have had silimuliar experiences.

The issues are getting muddled. YES, I admit I have unfair unrealistic qualifications for maturity. It is my believe that maturity arises from either intense relationships or intense spiritual journeys. Yes, I do believe that when a person lives alone, they are able to maintain a lifestyle based on "play." But that is an opinion, not a fact.

Yes. I am prejudiced against orgies because of what I have been through with my friend; the discussions of him telling me he had sport sex 24 hours. Yes. that is my issue and my fucked up prejudice.

I however do NOT think I am wrong in questioning when people do not take HIV absolutely serious and say there are "worse STDS" I am not familiar with anything worse.. maybe you can enlighten me. I'm sorry to bfe aggressive. I will say I'm a goof when I judge maturity and sex parities. But not taking HIV utterly estrous, no I won't back down and why would you want someone to?

Do you believe HIV is not worse than other STDs? Do you believe people should not take it absolutely seriously - that it a just a manageable disease ? What about when people (like my living friend ) can no longer afford the 100$ medicines? I don't know why this is something I would get attacked for.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-22-2012, 01:55 AM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
Default

Ok, I'm sorry too. I just want to know if you understand where I am coming from regarding HIV - it's not something that I feel shouldn't be taken seriously.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-22-2012, 02:00 AM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 109
Default

Vix,

I openly want to talk. I don't think we will agree on maturity - but I would like to hear your conclusions on HIV and how they differ from mine. Maybe I could learn something.

Also, and this is secondary, if you have been through sexual trama, how do you not feel uncomfortable with certain issues. I can't change who I am! If sex parities make me uncomfortable and my husband knows that so it isn't worth it to him , why is that wrong?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-22-2012, 02:01 AM
Vixtoria's Avatar
Vixtoria Vixtoria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 299
Default

I replied privately because the questions you asked me are divergent from this thread. I'm not ignoring them! But I dont' want to hijack this thread with another issue all together! Hopefully the PM will help answer questions!
__________________
Me: Late 30s pansexual poly.
DH: My husband of 19 yrs and father of 3 teen girls.
DC: LDR of +4 year
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-22-2012, 02:04 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 1,647
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
Ok, I'm sorry too. I just want to know if you understand where I am coming from regarding HIV - it's not something that I feel shouldn't be taken seriously.
I get the gist that you perceive that STD's in general and HIV in particular are CAUSED BY orgies and having sex with many people anonymously or indiscriminately.

I'm not trying to piss you off and someone else might have said this already - it's getting to be past my bedtime and I still have yet to fry my veggie burgers and take an aromatherapy bath - but all it takes is ONE PERSON to transmit a STD. It doesn't matter if people are watching, or being watched, none of that matters. Orgies and group sex have NOTHING TO DO with whether or not someone will get a disease or a drug addiction.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-22-2012, 02:09 AM
Vixtoria's Avatar
Vixtoria Vixtoria is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
Vix,

Also, and this is secondary, if you have been through sexual trama, how do you not feel uncomfortable with certain issues. I can't change who I am! If sex parities make me uncomfortable and my husband knows that so it isn't worth it to him , why is that wrong?
Sorry this one I didn't see and will go ahead and answer here. Yeah, I've been through sexual trauma. If you want details about how when and what, again PM.

Of course there are certain issues I am uncomfortable with! You can, however, change who you are. You are the only one that can! That's not here or there though. Through the years, there are things that I have become comfortable with. That has taken time, love, acceptance and major trust. Hubby and I have been together going on 20 years now. So there's a lot of build up into the trust there, and to be honest, there are things I am not comfortable with doing or experiencing with others. Just him. It takes me time to get comfortable with other people. No, that doesn't go away, you learn to live with it. Part of that is being honest with yourself and your partners.

You can't make anyone do anything, that's true, but you CAN tell someone what makes you uncomfortable and why! It can be something you slowly work towards getting comfortable with (baby steps) or something you just seriously can not handle. That choice is yours.

It's not wrong, and no one said it was. Only that what makes you uncomfortable isn't necessarily what makes others. So are you uncomfortable with sex parties for yourself, or for anyone? Or for any of your partners? Basically, it's up to you to think on it and learn where your 'squick factor' lies. Then communicate it, and you two negotiate what works for you. Maybe you are okay with him doing it as long as you know he's safe. Maybe you just don't want to hear about it but as long as ground rules on safety are followed. There are many possibilities and no one is saying you HAVE to accept or do anything. Just that it's your responsibility to learn what you are comfortable with and why. Then decide what to do from there!

For the record, I always tell potential partners about my sexual trauma before it gets really serious. It helps them as well to know that there are certain things that are just not good for me and might trigger responses.
__________________
Me: Late 30s pansexual poly.
DH: My husband of 19 yrs and father of 3 teen girls.
DC: LDR of +4 year
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-22-2012, 02:10 AM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 1,647
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
Also, and this is secondary, if you have been through sexual trama, how do you not feel uncomfortable with certain issues. I can't change who I am! If sex parities make me uncomfortable and my husband knows that so it isn't worth it to him , why is that wrong?
It is NOT wrong. Your husband needs to determine whether the enjoyment he derives from these sex parties equals or exceeds his willingness to watch a person he presumably cares for (you) go through the anguish of knowing he participates in those activities.

And you need to decide if your "comfort zone" (see other thread) is something you need to preserve at the risk of your relationship... based on how he values that as described above...

Sounds like he decided the pain it causes you is not worth the pleasure it brings to him.

there is NOTHING wrong with that at all.

ETA: I find it refreshing when one partner realizes that being in a relationship is not always about what's pleasurable or convenient for THEMSELVES.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-22-2012, 07:59 AM
SchrodingersCat's Avatar
SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
Ok, I'm going to get off because I am getting attacked.
You were not being attacked. People were just disagreeing with you. No one was calling you names or attacking your personal character. No one said you were stupid. I was very careful to not even imply that you were immature, despite the fact that your claim to the contrary flies in the face of my personal experience.

I'm sorry if you are not comfortable with my style of discussion, however you presented yourself as a mature adult so I figured you'd be able to handle it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
No one has died from herpes, ever that I know.
Herpes can be extremely dangerous. A woman with an outbreak can pass it to her baby if she has a vaginal birth. The infant can then contract the virus inside the throat, which is often fatal. My niece was literally the first child in Canada to be born that way and actually survive infancy. They used an experimental treatment that was so risky, they only tried it because they were 100% certain she would die otherwise. She had a tracheotomy tube for the first 5 years of her life and is still in and out of hospitals, 10 years later. She'll be on anti-virals for the rest of her life, just to keep her alive. She's got a compromised immune system to the point where even the flu can be life-threatening. This is all from herpes, not HIV.

Quote:
The vaccines are JUST being developed.
I wasn't talking about vaccines. I was talking about the various inhibitors that prevent the HIV virus from becoming full-blown AIDS. You can have HIV your entire life and not be "sick," though still infectious of course.

Incidentally, there is also a case study of a man who was actually cured of his HIV (link). They were able make his body produce antibodies for HIV. 3 years later, he still tests negative for any trace of HIV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
I was responding directly to someone's post who seemed to say that being HIV is no big deal. I know that it is.
I didn't go so far as to say that HIV is no big deal, but I do apologize for minimizing its severity.

What I meant was that there are effective treatments that prevent HIV from becoming AIDS. From what I've heard, people can live normal lives if they take the right medications and stay monitored.

Quote:
Unless the drugs have changed (maybe they have?) they do literally change the physical appearance of the body (on of my friends gets facial injections every six months to hide the creases in his face and many of his friends do as well (he's in the beauty business so he speaks openly about it).
My brief research findings are that the newer HIV medications are much less harmful than they have been in the past. Even the weight redistribution you mentioned has been eliminated in the newer medications.

I'm not trying to minimize your experience. Yes, people still die from AIDS. Yes, HIV is a very serious illness.

Incidentally, there are different strains of HIV. It's not enough to say "pos/neg" because two positive people could have different strains, one could be more aggressive than the other. Having one strain won't make you immune to a more aggressive strain. Someone who thinks they're safe if they already have HIV is playing with fire.

I disagree that not knowing "pos/neg" is a "hetero" thing because not only am I not hetero, but I'm also active in the local queer community. Is it possible that's more of a "gay man" thing? Because I'm not in the local "gay man" community, so I wouldn't know...

Quote:
I DO NOT KNOW if sperm carries over.
Sperm cannot carry HIV. I'm astonished that you can present yourself as an expert on the illness, coming across like you know everything there is to know about it, and then not know some basic facts about transmission and treatment.
__________________
Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-22-2012, 08:18 AM
Anneintherain's Avatar
Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 821
Default

I'm going to do a random thing and post a response without reading other responses.

To me the issue would be my partner lying to me, that would be the only issue for me actually. 1. why did he lie. 2. if he had been honest ahead of time, what would my response have been to his desire to have casual sex at sex parties, if he had told me after the fact, how would I deal with the issue in the future?

All the other stuff comes after the lying thing, so I can't see even dealing with it until the big issue of lies was settled.

So since I don't know why he lied since I didn't check any follow ups.. I'm going to just babble some thoughts (took a big dose of Nyquil awhile ago to deal with my head cold). My ex cheated on me when he could've honestly slept with any of thousands of women because we'd opened our relationship, however while he had liberal boundaries (use condoms, don't sleep with people who are cheating, don't sleep with 3 women who tried so sleep with you when they knew you were in a monogamous relationship) he broke all of those, and then lied about it for 9 months. The lying was the main thing, if he'd come clean ASAP..if this..if that...nevertheless the thing for me was that he lied, and looking out for me instead of my sexual health/safety had dropped from #1 on his list to #whatever. Therefore being in a relationship with him was no longer tenable. If you think your sexual health isn't up there at #1 for your partner, my suggestion is to think hard about the relationship.

Ramble #2. My current husband has had group sex a dozen or so times. Most of them were with friends, but I still have trouble wrapping my head around it, since it hasn't ever been a part of my life. I know I'm unlikely to have a 3some or 4some with my husband since his libido/attitude isn't "sex is awesome!" so group sex is likely out for anything that he is involved in, however I understand that in the future he might be open to it, and I know I might be open to it, but if it is happening with us at the same time or at different times, it just wont be happening without a discussion.

Nevertheless ...hmm, could I be not jealous of my husband having group sex with other people? If I had said I was fine with it yes, if it was a party and if I wanted to be involved in being there, but I wasn't invited and he wanted to do it anyway, probably not. For ME, I'd have already negotiated the FUCK out of any group sex situation before I had it, so my husband would've already had 30 chances to object.

If I was going to give my blessing for my partner to live his life as he saw fit and stay out of it (not my default for a marriage btw), if he wanted to be involved in casual hookups, because of STI risks (genital warts, extra high risk HPV strains) I'd still insist on condoms for intercourse, and I think if he was going to have sex with people he didnt know well enough to ask about last STI results with, would probably default to condom use with him regardless.

OK, now off to read through the entire thread and likely wish I hadn't said half of the stuff I did say
__________________
Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
addiction, discriminalization, herpes, hiv, marginalization, sex, sex addiction, sex parties, sex party, std's, sti's

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:29 PM.