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  #11  
Old 10-03-2012, 06:55 PM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
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Thanks!

I understand. I appreciate the advice. And this is not the main crux of why I'm writing anyway. Nothing but interest has really happened with this person anyway. I'm more interested in find out whether others live with companions - not romantic and how that works.

That said, to me divorce isn't as easy as you point out because marriage (for me) is not about romance and sex. It's about companionship, friendship, and family. If I were just in love with my husband breaking up would be easier! But he's the only one who can assure me when I'm anxious, we have a child together, I consider his family my family - so breaking that apart just because I don't want to have sex or candle lit dinners with him seems silly.

But do I want to give up sex and romance entirely? Don't know. He seems ok. He would prefer we have sex, but he loves his GF and she's into his kink and she doesn't want more so...
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  #12  
Old 10-03-2012, 07:09 PM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
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GG,

Sorry. I was getting emails with only part of yr posts. The posts are very helpful and not judging at all! Thank you.

You ask what am I not getting that I want "to go all the way." Well, it's not kids (don't want any more) not finances or particularly living together.

I guess what I want is an intense romantic and sexual and emotionally intimate relationship. Supposedly, that CAN happen in poly, but I don't see it because I only meet guys you 1. are married 2. will evenly want to GET married or 3. want casual sex. I think it's hard (impossible?) to find someone who will ethically agree to be the 'little bit' on the side for a long time.

I guess I'm still wondering why be poly at all? If the sex and intimacy is very good in one del. - why look for more. I understand in a bi or kink situation, but when I'm in love, I just want to be with that person.
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  #13  
Old 10-03-2012, 07:55 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I have friends who are trying out being married in a "companionate love" situation and they each have a Spice.

In my own marriage there are periods where the sex waxes and wanes.

My parent's marriage is learning to deal with sex fading away -- Dad has mental health issues.

So... again. Sex can be a component of marriage. But marriage is not just about sex.

Try reading some of the blogs -- there are other poly people who have love/sex/romance and do NOT live or marry their people.

One of my old friends is that secondary guy -- he lives in his flat. His honey is married and lives with her husband. The hubby has his gf. They all do fine and have been this way (my friend and his married honey) and recently celebrated 5 years together.


Quote:
I guess I'm still wondering why be poly at all? If the sex and intimacy is very good in one del. - why look for more. I understand in a bi or kink situation, but when I'm in love, I just want to be with that person.
In general? Or for yourself?

Only you can answer what you feel wired for and what shape you want your relationships to come as for you -- monoships or polyships or some other thing.

In general? I feel like this...

1) Polyamorous people come wired with the desire/ability to love more than one partner at a time. They will go -- why NOT? I have this ability. I don't have to exercise it. I could feel polyamorous -- and choose celibacy! I could choose monoship! I could choose a polyship! I am still polyamorous! The relationship shape chosen does not define the ability, capacity, adaptability or wiring of me.

2) Monoamorous people come wired with the desire/ability to love one partner at a time only. They will go -- well.... WHY? I have this ability. I don't have to exercise it. Monoamorous me could still choose celibacy for myself! I could also choose a monogamous relationship for myself. Or choose to be one arm of a "V" shape polyship arrangement. Or something else! The relationship shape chosen does not define the ability, capacity, adaptability or wiring of me.

3) So why bother asking why? In the end to me? People want whatever it is they want from their Life. It is their own life to live. They are free to choose. Go live it then. Yay!

When you write this...

Quote:
But he's the only one who can assure me when I'm anxious, we have a child together, I consider his family my family - so breaking that apart just because I don't want to have sex or candle lit dinners with him seems silly.

But do I want to give up sex and romance entirely? Don't know. He seems ok. He would prefer we have sex, but he loves his GF and she's into his kink and she doesn't want more so...
It sounds like you are fine then in your arrangement with DH. Where is the problem? I do not understand what you are saying.
  • Are you saying that you are not sure you can hack an open marriage or feel polyamorous? (Based on what? One Opening experiment? Maybe that one guy just isn't a runner. That's what dating is for. To find the match.)
  • Are you saying you feel like if you love someone it must come in the monoship shape, and with DH in the slot of legal husband that prevents you from seeking what you want? A monoship shape because he's in the slot? He's ok with you dating? Do you need to be legally divorced to feel ok to date? So... get one? Then live together and coparent still. While you each date.

I guess I don't what sort of question you are asking so I don't know how to give feedback on that angle.

Please elaborate? What ARE you asking? Struggling with there?

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-03-2012 at 08:29 PM.
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  #14  
Old 10-03-2012, 08:03 PM
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Vixtoria Vixtoria is offline
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As far as your question on if someone else is in your situation I know there was a thread recently. http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26159

It is about a man who is his wife's primary relationship in all ways but one. The sexual. If that is what you and your husband want then that's working for you and fine.

As for 'being a piece on the side'. Why would you think it would be like that? I am married, more than 17 years, bf and I have been together now just over a year. It's a long distance relationship but I wouldn't classify it as 'a piece on the side'. For me, at least, I don't quantify the love. We are in contact every day, face time, IMs, texts. He knows of my kids and they know of him, he's talked to them and they've talked to him, but my home life is me and my kids and hubby. We aren't considering bf to move in or become a 'primary' in that way, but he is far from a piece on the side.
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  #15  
Old 10-03-2012, 08:23 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
However, I do have sympathy for people who are unhappily married and CAN'T be poly - and don't want to get divorced. I am not saying it is right. I am saying I have empathy - because I am somewhat in that situation too - except (luckily my husband is open minded). What does someone do if they are unhappily married but can't get divorced either- ?
I have incredible amounts of sympathy for those that are unhappily married and can't be poly, but that doesn't mean that I am going to have a relationship with them.

And there is no such thing as "can't" get divorced. It *is* a choice. It may well be that they have evaluated the consequences of getting a divorce and that it would make their lives worse, but it is still their choice.


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Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
It seems to take a lover was the common thing for centuries.
So was slavery - didn't make that right, either.

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Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
I guess in my mind our polyamoury was the honest version of take a lover instead of being add more love.
If everyone involved (which includes his wife) was not informed and consented to it, then in my mind it's not a truly ethical situation and is therefore cheating. You may be in poly relationships, but he is cheating, and you are enabling that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
I know that people tend to judge people who date mono people - PLEASE don't judge me. The internet is a scary place and I truly am just looking for support.
Most poly folks don't judge those that date or are in a relationship with a mono person - there is a whole sub-type of poly called mono/poly which covers that (and I am in one). But in this version everybody is fully informed and consents to it. That is the difference.

There are those that say that what their partners do is none of their business - if they have a spouse and are cheating on them then it's not their concern, but that's not something that I could deal with in my life.
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  #16  
Old 10-21-2012, 04:30 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Quote:
If you don't sleep with your primary is that even a poly relationship?
Yes.

Quote:
I love my partner dearly and don't want to lose him, but I think I'm...just interested in house holding with him more than being in a love/sexual relationship -- but that seems to limit what relationships I have outside the primary one.
Life is full of limits. Every choice we make limits other things we might have done.

Quote:
I know people tend to judge people who date mono people - PLEASE don't judge me. The internet is a scary place and I truly am just looking for support.
I'm going to give you some straight-forward answers, and it's not out of unkindness or judgment. It's about the kindness of telling someone upfront where the cliff is BEFORE they walk off it and hit the sharp rocks 30 feet below.

This is not about dating a mono; it's about cheating.

Your entire quote is written as I'm just a poor little girl, be niiiiiice to me, I'm soooo scaaaaared. I'm asking you to think about this man's wife. Does he have children who will be harmed when she finds out? (Because I can assure you, she will.) What about the scary place of finding out her marriage is a lie and she may be on her own, to support herself and children when perhaps she has never had to do so? FINDING YOU ARE THE SPOUSE OF A CHEATER IS A SCARY PLACE. You are putting someone else in that scary place.

Why should anyone support you in an action that is bound to inflict great pain and damage on another human being?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy View Post
I know this is [wrong], and I feel terrible, but he's truly unhappy in his relationship and I have a hard time connecting with people.
The word BUT, as used here, is a way of explaining why you are above normal rules governing decent treatment of other human beings.

What if you were in a marriage with someone you loved dearly and trusted entirely and found out he was lying to you and cheating and telling people how miserable he is with you...and his girlfriend who had conspired behind your back explained to you that she knows it's wrong BUT he's miserable with you and she personally has a hard time connecting so she feels entitled to your husband, behind your back, despite the fact that it hurts you...

...would this be okay with you?

Please...treat others as you would like to be treated.

I would strongly suggest you do extensive reading on an infidelity forum to see the total devastation a woman suffers when she finds out the husband she loved and trusted is cheating on her. Find out how she feels about the woman involved.

My ex-husband was involved with at least a dozen women, most of whom were quite okay with being part of lying to me (by omission). I have nothing but disrespect for their character. They have none.

By contrast, one 23 year old girl, when she realized where he was leading, telling her his sad little stories about how unhappy he was, told him firmly and politely, "I'm uncomfortable with these conversations. I don't want to be in the middle of your marriage problems. Please don't contact me in private again." This girl is going places because she is strong, she owns herself, she knows right from wrong and does what is right regardless of how she feels. She will always have self-respect. She will never have to use the word BUT, or beg people not to judge her--because she is confident in her own character and how she has behaved.

You can ask, all you want, for people not to judge you, because it's all so scary and you're entitled to her husband, and he's so unhappy, blah blah blah, but the cold, hard fact is that everybody has their opinions, and MANY will have a low opinion of what you are doing.

Again, I say this NOT out of unkindness or judgment, but out of the deepest compassion for what lies ahead: Do you want to see this cliff and the rocks below before or after you walk off it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
As far as seeing someone who is cheating, I have a slightly different feeling than most poly people might. Yes. I agree it is unethical. Yes. I agree that it is unwise and I probably will get out.
However, I do have sympathy for people who are unhappily married and CAN'T be poly - and don't want to get divorced. I am not saying it is right. I am saying I have empathy - because I am somewhat in that situation too - except (luckily my husband is open minded). What does someone do if they are unhappily married but can't get divorced either- ?
You can have sympathy and empathy and still not be part of hurting another human being (his wife.) If it is unethical, don't do it.

When I was unhappily married but felt I couldn't divorce, I made a decision I was going to honor my marriage vows, because my character mattered to me, regardless of what choices XH made. I went to al-anon and learned a great deal about focusing on my own choices, not his. I made a decision to take responsibility for my own happiness. I pursued a hobby I'd always loved, went out and met new friends in that field (including my current married, poly friend) worked hard at it, and built it into a business. I focused on being the best mother and employee and teacher I could be because that matters. I focused on my relationship with God, because that matters.

The end result is that my children are not happy about the divorce (I finally filed because XH was now stealing money from me and running us so deeply into debt we would have lost the house--I did it to protect myself and my children financially, to keep a roof over their heads.) BUT...I am at peace with myself and my choices. I have no fears of them finding out anything I've ever done or blaming me for the divorce. I stand blameless before God, regardless of the lies my xh and even my own family are telling about me, and that gives me peace. I never have to use the word BUT.... If my current boyfriend is ever a part of my children's lives, they will have NO cause to think he had any part in breaking up their family (because he didn't--he was 120% honorable and didn't so much as flirt with me until the divorce had been FINAL for several months.)

The end result is that those who know me KNOW that I live with integrity and honor and honesty and I have their respect.

We don't need a boyfriend/girlfriend to be happy. We don't need other people to change and be what we want to be happy. Happiness comes from being happy with who we've chosen to be, from doing the right thing.
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  #17  
Old 10-21-2012, 04:42 PM
nondy2 nondy2 is offline
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[QOk this is harsh. And has made me think. Thank you.

As far as ethics- Is lying the only unethical thing? I'm just curious. People can go to orgies, do meth, have random sex with hundreds of strangers- and that is ethical and moral if no no one lies? Am I being unethical if we are just friends? What should the boundaries be? No sex? No communication? Should I insist he tell his wife we are friends?

I am also guessing your 23 yr old was not in a ten year complex marriage. Right? My issue is that I am not entirely happy either -and need someone to relate to...so how does that fit into things?

As far as ethics, why is lying the only litmus test. I can't have aq drink with some I CARE about because it's lying. But people can go to orgies every week because they are Honest?? Hmmm
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2012, 05:59 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nondy2 View Post
[QOk this is harsh. And has made me think. Thank you.

As far as ethics- Is lying the only unethical thing? I'm just curious. People can go to orgies, do meth, have random sex with hundreds of strangers- and that is ethical and moral if no no one lies? Am I being unethical if we are just friends? What should the boundaries be? No sex? No communication? Should I insist he tell his wife we are friends?

I am also guessing your 23 yr old was not in a ten year complex marriage. Right? My issue is that I am not entirely happy either -and need someone to relate to...so how does that fit into things?

As far as ethics, why is lying the only litmus test. I can't have a drink with some I CARE about because it's lying. But people can go to orgies every week because they are Honest?? Hmmm
Lying is not the only litmus test. I agree with you, there are many things that are unethical besides lying. I also see some major problems with weekly orgies, meth, and random sex with hundreds of strangers.

Yes, you should insist he tell his wife what's going on. My 23 year old was not married, but I was in a 20+ year marriage, I was in a great deal of pain, I was unhappy with how he was treating me--and I would have told a man the exact same thing as the 23 year old.

You can still find people to relate to without stepping into a situation that will harm someone else. What hobbies or interests do you have? Join a group, take a class, go to a forum, and you will bit by bit find people with whom you can relate.

What should the boundaries be? That depends on what his wife is comfortable with. Maybe if it's all above board, she'll be fine with you having coffee and personal conversations with her husband. I know for me, my ex was in a sense 'just friends' with many of these women. It wasn't that he talked to them, even about personal things, that was a huge problem. It was the lying, sneaking, me being the third wheel in my own marriage, the only one of the three who was treated as unworthy of knowing what was happening in my own marriage that was a problem (a real spit in the face) and it was the back-stabbing and telling them I was making him miserable.

I truly do not mean to be harsh. I didn't have a boyfriend when I was still married but I did things in my own pain that maybe I could have done better. I did one thing that I feel in retrospect was a little unfair to someone else. It's my only regret in how I dealt with all my husband's infidelities and lies, and had I been on the infidelity forum sooner and said my husband is telling me to do this, they would have pointed out where I was heading and the ramifications to others, apart from calling my husband's bluff. So thank you for being willing to see past what might feel harsh. It truly is not intended to be.
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