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  #51  
Old 10-19-2012, 05:16 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by playswellwithothers View Post
So I tell you all this--ALL this, sorry to go on so long!--to tell you I think I get where your wife's gf is. Once my eyes had been opened to what the possibilities for intentional, conscious, mutually supportive, and healthy relationships with actual grown-ups who talked about their feelings and their concerns and co-created their lives, I couldn't go back, any more than I could unring a bell. And my husband proved incapable of moving forward.
Very helpful and interesting story, thank you for sharing.
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  #52  
Old 10-20-2012, 12:37 PM
BraverySeeker BraverySeeker is offline
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Thank you, playswellwithothers and Vixtoria in particular, for sharing your experiences and insights about what my wife's GF is likely experiencing. You have helped me wrap my head around what she's going through.

I have my wife relaying pretty much blow-by-blow what steps her GF's taken and how her husband has responded and how much pervasive sadness there is in it all. But honestly, I still didn't grasp fully what motivated the GF to initiate the end of her marriage now and not years ago or months from now. Although I don't know that the GF consciously sees my wife and I as having the model relationship, she has acknowledged it stands in contrast to her own. I think it's really her discovery of my wife and how she feels for her that has opened her eyes to the lack of passion and love in her marriage she has passively accepted for too long.

As for me, it's another dawn. But not just another day. Thankfully it will be a busy one in which I will go to the gym, take my son to his soccer game, and help my wife entertain friends from out of town. At some point she'll prepare a meal for the kids and I tonight. She'll be absent as she and the GF go out before spending the night, their first together, at a nearby hotel.

My wife expects a lot of uninterrupted and unhurried crying and holding. I, of course, expect the intimacy will not end there.

I'm OK with this. I am, right? I mean, I intentionally bought the box set of the third season of Community to keep my occupied tonight. If that's not sufficient, I've got a well-stocked mini fridge of craft brew to help relax my restless and idle mind. The last thing I want to do is be back here tonight on this forum, inebriated and claiming this was all a huge mistake. There's no need for me to be crying, too.

No, I'm in as healthy a state of mind as I've been since this chapter in our lives started several weeks ago. I trust my wife that she can follow her heart and still keep me close. She was an amazing, gorgeous, brilliant and passionate woman when I met her, when both of us were merely teenagers. I couldn't have imagined then all that she would become, from a much sought-after healer, phenomenal mother to an incredible lover.

As I've watched her grow into an even more amazing, gorgeous, brilliant and passionate adult woman, it occurs to me that I've never had her all to myself. She's lived her own life, one of her choosing, and I've been so fortunate to witness it all. I've shared her with her mentors, colleagues, friends and family. She is now sharing herself with another love, another lover. That category is all that's new. I know this doesn't change the fact that she chose me as her life partner. She keeps reminding me of that and how much she loves me and "isn't going anywhere" without me.

I'm amazed and humbled by this woman. I always have been. I love her immensely. I do I do I do.

And I'm looking forward to watching Community tonight. 22 episodes, not counting the special features.

Bring it on.

Last edited by BraverySeeker; 10-20-2012 at 12:47 PM.
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  #53  
Old 10-20-2012, 05:12 PM
playswellwithothers playswellwithothers is offline
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Brave, it's okay to be okay and not okay with it, you know? It's a new thing for you, it's a big deal. You sound like you're in a good emotional space with your wife, that both of you have put in a lot of work on YOUR relationship while she develops another with her gf. You've made plans to occupy and take care of yourself tonight. Your heart is in a good place.

AND. You could freak out. I'm not wishing it on you or predicting it, but it could happen. AND THAT WOULD STILL BE OKAY. It wouldn't make you a crappy husband or a horrible human being and it wouldn't mean you can't handle this or that your wife has to stop this polyamory thing immediately or your head will explode.

So if you have a hard moment--or several of them--just be with that. Be gentle with yourself--you've grown so much in such a short space of time! There are bound to be growing pains along the way. There may be "no need" for you to cry--but you might cry. Whatever feelings you have in the moment will have a beginning, a middle and an end. Ride the wave. Reach out to people here. Cradle and love your sweet self. Be the kind and tender companion to yourself that you already are to your wife.

And careful with the craft brews, hey? Alcohol and other depressants can add fuel to the fire if you get triggered.

Personally, I am fond of writing long email rants and screeds (IMPORTANT: without addresses, 'cause then I can't accidentally send them!). Sometimes I save 'em for a day or two, but mostly I delete them.

You may still feel like you're seeking bravery, but I see that you are already there, holding it in your open heart and open mind, cupping it gently in your hand. This is what bravery looks like in action. Allowing. Releasing. Letting go of attachments to specific outcomes.

Wishing you a peaceful night of self-growth, self-care, and restful, deep, healing sleep.
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  #54  
Old 10-20-2012, 11:39 PM
BraverySeeker BraverySeeker is offline
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Just saw her off. She said she'll be home sometime before noon tomorrow, which made me involuntarily swallow hard.

The kids made it difficult for me to properly or convincingly assure her I'll be fine in her absence tonight, so I just texted her "Worry not about me. Love her."

She responded, "Make me cry ..."

I'm heading into the evening properly exhausted by 90 minutes of pool running and stationary biking (I'm a self-rehabbing runner) followed by two hours of raking leaves. With any luck, I'll pass out soon after the kids are bathed and put to bed. I'm counting on that actually.

Thank you, playswellwithothers, for "tucking me in" with your kind words. I sincerely appreciate you and all the others on this board who have chimed in with advice and support. As my wife and I have said to each other a couple times, "if anyone can make this work, it is us." Tonight I want to include all of you in the royal "us."

Thank you thank you thank you.
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  #55  
Old 10-20-2012, 11:50 PM
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B1 and I are a couple of discs into season 2 of Community. We'd both somehow missed it on TV and are loving it. I saw season 3 in the store last week and demonstrated great self control in not buying it immediately at full price.
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  #56  
Old 10-21-2012, 05:43 AM
playswellwithothers playswellwithothers is offline
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Hey, Brave,

Just wanted you to know I'm out here, and you can reach out any time. Here, email, whatever.

I think I'm so moved by what you're doing because my own husband wasn't able to do this for/with me. It doesn't make him a bad person, but it made me really really sad that I was heading full-heart into a way of living and loving that he simply couldn't accept. Still tears me up, even after three years of separation.

I couldn't convince him that my love for my partner wasn't going to take away any of the love I had for him. He saw love as finite; I didn't. You don't, and even though this first time, and others, may be hard, you already know what's true for you and your wife: you love her even more for all the love she has to give the world. And you know what? She loves you right back for just the same.

love,
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  #57  
Old 10-22-2012, 01:54 PM
LoveBunny LoveBunny is offline
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Braveryseeker,

I think you're pretty amazing.

I'm a married woman who recently fell hard for another woman, and unlike you, my husband has offered more resistance and resentment than support and understanding. Though after many tears and fights, he has "allowed" me to have a relationship with her, it is strictly DADT and she is not supposed to intrude on our life together in any way. Unlike your wife, I am unable to spend a night with my lady love, unable to talk about her with my husband (to whom I normally tell everything.) I am unable to be with her except during blissful, stolen hours while husband is at work.

So go easy on yourself, you are clearly an unbelievably generous, confident, and evolved human being, and I'm guessing your wife gets that totally.
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  #58  
Old 10-30-2012, 03:27 PM
BraverySeeker BraverySeeker is offline
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Update:

The GF, who recently separated from her husband, has been staying at our house since Friday. She was here through last night and may be back Wednesday night, after which she'll go back to staying with other friends. She and my wife spent a few hours over the weekend looking for a rental for her.

I was pretty nervous before she came Friday night, concerned about the sleeping arrangements. They were respectful of my squeamishness, opting not to share a bed. But two nights ago I asked them to stop acting like I didn't know they have been occasionally locking lips when I was in another room. It was awkward saying so, but I reminded them that no one here was having an affair and the sneaky high schooly stuff was starting to annoy me. I really didn't want to have to start stomping around my own house and clearing my throat before entering a room so they could stop doing what they were doing and pretend they weren't doing it.

Then yesterday morning I suggested to my wife that the two of them sleep together that night. This giving of "permission," like others I've previously "granted," was made in a post orgasmic state. I find myself soaking in compersion juices at such moments, so I tend to bring up brave and/or reckless ideas, usually to urge my wife to follow her heart and loins.

Honestly, I have grown more comfortable with the two of them together in the house. The GF is a cute, pleasant, sharp and rather shy person (much like my wife on all counts), who comes out of her shell on the rare occasions around me when she's not dwelling on the cratering of her marriage.

I figure the GF won't be in a place of her own for awhile yet, and rather than make them get another hotel room (where they spent their one and only night together so far a couple weeks ago) so why shouldn't they be together now?

But it raises a question: Do more experienced poly folk have rules/restrictions regarding one or the other primary partners having another sexual partner overnight at the primaries' house? Our kids are pretty little and clueless now (which could be dangerously naive of me to assume) so my wife and her GF can get away with it being in the downstairs guest bedroom together.

I'm being told that I may be too eager to please and that I may be sacrificing my own emotional well being. That could be true. But because I see their relationship as being a likely long-term thing, I guess I figure that we should all just try to get comfortable with that fact. Of course, we could be working toward that at a slower pace than we are.

In any case, my wife was noncommital yesterday morning. But when I got home about 9 p.m. last night from a meeting, the two of them were nearly asleep on opposite ends of the couch. Not long thereafter, I said goodnight and went to bed. Not until my wife came upstairs, brushed her teeth, kissed me and said, "See you in the morning," did I know she was spending the night with the GF.

Initially I was PO'd there wasn't a final conversation about it. But I had promoted it and even texted her late the previous morning to reassure her I was OK with them sleeping together in the house that night. Maybe it was better I didn't get much notice that it was really going to happen. Still, I was still up pretty late, reading and unable to sleep.

As I've told my wife, I think I'm less jealous than missing her in bed with me. Is that a fair distinction?

So this morning, everyone pretty much acted like nothing unusual happened. The GF even made breakfast for the kids.

On another front, the estranged other husband called me out of the blue late last week to ask me when my wife and I decided to open our marriage. Truthfully, the thought never occurred to us before my wife and his fell for one another. But although I do not know him, I do know he is understandably distraught by his wife leaving and demonstrably incapable of seeing her years of unhappiness with him as being unrelated to her new love for my wife.

I replied that I didn't think he was asking the right question; that it was probably too late for him to show a willingness to accept the relationship between our wives. The question he should be asking, I said, was not how to open their marriage but how to end their marriage as amicably as possible without scarring their two teenage boys.

I was under the impression that his wife had asked for a divorce. She has said that outcome seems inevitable - but she's said that to my wife, who relayed it to me, but has been much less forthright with him. So it looks like I spoke out of turn. "I guess you know much more than I, because she won't talk to me," he said.

Fuck.

That side of this situation is very unsettling to me, and I hate being pulled into the middle of it. Yes, he should know by now that his wife wants to end their relationship. But until she's unafraid to ask for divorce, he will continue to flail about, assume the separation is temporary, and say he'll try anything to get her back.

On another note, my wife and I are scheduled to see tomorrow morning for the first time a poly- and kink-positive therapist - a woman who told us on the phone that if we're "looking for someone to make us feel bad about what we're doing, then I'm the wrong therapist for you."

I'm a little scared. I'm a little excited. I've never had therapy, so I'm not sure what to expect from this first 90-minute session. Anything that helps keep my wife and I communicating and committed to each other I'm willing to try.

In that way, I'm like the other husband. Only having more success at it.
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  #59  
Old 10-30-2012, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraverySeeker View Post
But two nights ago I asked them to stop acting like I didn't know they have been occasionally locking lips when I was in another room. It was awkward saying so, but I reminded them that no one here was having an affair and the sneaky high schooly stuff was starting to annoy me. I really didn't want to have to start stomping around my own house and clearing my throat before entering a room so they could stop doing what they were doing and pretend they weren't doing it.
How I know this But from the other side. I was so uneasy around my men because I wasn't sure how to behave to not upset someone and don't hurt anyone's feelings. My husband was like you, he didn't wanted us to be on our toes all the time but it was a theme for some weeks/ months nevertheless because we simply needed to find our routine with each other and ease into what felt right or not that good when all spend time with each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraverySeeker View Post
But it raises a question: Do more experienced poly folk have rules/restrictions regarding one or the other primary partners having another sexual partner overnight at the primaries' house? Our kids are pretty little and clueless now (which could be dangerously naive of me to assume) so my wife and her GF can get away with it being in the downstairs guest bedroom together.
We live together therefore this plays into my answer here but we simply scheduled our nights. That worked well right from the start and we still stick to it. It prevents this 'Uh?! Was that tonight?' moment you mentioned. When you interact on such a close level with each other I guess you won't keep your kids out of it completely. It seems that kids are perfectly alright with the situation at home as long as it's stable and loving. They won't care if you don't. If you want to keep it from the kids, try not to use the house and not live together in the long run And even then they may notice when they grow up.

And regarding the 'getting away' thing: Didn't you say that you do not want them to tiptoe around? This sounds like you expect them to do so around the kids. You should be clearer about your expectations (if you didn't already talk about it with them).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BraverySeeker View Post
I'm being told that I may be too eager to please and that I may be sacrificing my own emotional well being. That could be true. But because I see their relationship as being a likely long-term thing, I guess I figure that we should all just try to get comfortable with that fact. Of course, we could be working toward that at a slower pace than we are.
Stop being told and stop listening to others. Just ask yourself: Are you feeling OK? If yes: fine! If not, search for the things that make you uncomfortable. I was really worried that my husband may overestimate his possibilities in this new relationship style and jump right in the middle of everything and not be prepared for it. Turned out that he knew well what he could or couldn't do. I learned to trust him, but I really got on his nerves the first few weeks when I constantly doubted his motives and the truth behind his words as I was worrying if he may just say so to please and ease me.

We jumped right in. I wasn't sure that this was the right thing to do, but all of us felt that we needed to. This was alright in the end. If you feel comfortable (besides from the nervous feeling of new-ness that should be there in general) you will be OK. Remember to check in with each other and stay connected during this phase of transition.


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Originally Posted by BraverySeeker View Post
As I've told my wife, I think I'm less jealous than missing her in bed with me. Is that a fair distinction?
Totally valid, I would say. I heard the same from my husband in the beginning. Our routine was slowly but steadily changed by this new person in my/our life and we needed to adjust to that.

Good luck with your first session and I think that you are totally right to feel uncomfortable with being pulled into the midst of the divorce. I would speak up about this and tell the GF what you think about it and how it upsets you. You don't have to be part of that if you don't want to, that's her thing to handle. But from my point of view the way she handles it would be of interest to me. Someone closely connected to my family and partner should behave in a way I could agree to. But that is up to discussion and a personal point of view.
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Last edited by Phy; 10-30-2012 at 05:47 PM.
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  #60  
Old 10-30-2012, 07:53 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Phy stole all the advice I was going to give, pretty much down to the letter! Ah, well.
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