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  #211  
Old 10-12-2012, 05:25 AM
Nathan Nathan is offline
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There is only four off us in our group. I'm mono, my girl only has sex with myself and her lover, his wife is the only one that goes outside of our group. She is very careful, and gets tested regular. She does not enjoy having outside relationships anywhere near as much as she used to though.

We don't really have rules to be honest, I don't think we need to. We do listen and respect each other though.

It would be very difficult for me to except my girls tummy swelling from her lovers seed. She knows this, and I think that is the closest thing we have to a rule. She must be very careful with her birth control!
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  #212  
Old 10-12-2012, 01:17 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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River is a man.
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  #213  
Old 10-12-2012, 01:51 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I wouldn't want rules micromanaging my behavior or my feelings. I don't think anyone does!

Whether people call it
  • rules
  • agreements
  • principles
  • code of conduct

...or whatever else they might call it? Most people just want to be treated nicely in relationship.

I want rights and responsibilities laid out and agreed to verbally when we start to date. That THIS is how we agree to be together if we agree to be in a romantic relationship. So we can be cool together.

Because in my experience? It makes calling each other into account a whole lot easier. Life is life. Conflict arises.

In a perfect world it would not even be needed ever. But world is not perfect. People are not mind readers. Not everyone comes from the same family background, culture, or even level of experience in polyshipping. Not everyone wants the same things from a romance, or even wants them to come in the same way. There must be a a time to sort all that out and "calibrate" the expectations, wants, needs so you can work together well.

My first relationship I thought
  • Do not lie to me
  • Do not cheat on me
  • Don't be a jerk to me

was enough. It wasn't! I might want those things done, partner even wanted to do those things. But he did not know HOW -- his skill set for interpersonal relationship was poor. He wasn't a major jerk or criminal or anything. He was mostly a nice person... with weak skills and he lacked self confidence. He had a hard time with articulation and this caused a lot of conflict because of his passive personality. He was afraid of conflict resolution and would avoid it -- just ugh. And small things add up. We were not in harmony. We broke up.

And over the years I realized -- you know what? It's a whole lot easier on me to weed them out if I just state from the get go some basic principles of HOW I want to be treated in relationship. What kind of behavior I expect here.

DH? 20 years in? We rarely pull it out. Gosh, not since we first moved in together. They aren't really needed for us on our tier. But dating a new person? Tell me how you work. I can tell you how I work.

So just easier to list and articulate how I want/expect to be treated from the get go. Ask the person to treat me like I want to be treated even if things that "should" be obvious. I want the verify. I do not want to assume. Are these things obvious to you?

Ask this person how they want/expect to be treated. Then treat them that way that they like. Regardless of who is the lover, the meta, the spouse, whatever. So we can be cool together, in harmonious relationship because we all operate on the same standard and we have chosen to be in relationship together.

Otherwise we just cannot be in relationship together. We do not see eye to eye.

Platinum Rule, not Golden Rule.

GalaGirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-12-2012 at 09:10 PM.
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  #214  
Old 10-12-2012, 06:10 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveBomb View Post
Agreements are made in response to the rules. For example:

Rule 1: Be Honest with one another
Rule 2: Don't keep secondary relationships a secret
Rule 3: Talk about your feelings, especially any jealousy
Rule 4: Maintain an open dialogue and strong communication
Rule 5: Respect each other's feelings and work together towards resolving issues
etc.
I'm flabbergasted that anybody would think something like that is necessary. Anybody who isn't automatically honest and communicative and respectful of others simply isn't ready for a serious relationship of any sort. I wouldn't think of offering that sort of basic emotional maturity up as a ruleset, though I suspect it would work well as a guage of how ready a new partner is for a serious relationship. Somebody who is *not* honest and communicative and respectful and so on isn't somebody with whom I'll stay involved.
__________________
When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
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  #215  
Old 10-12-2012, 07:59 PM
PipersGirl PipersGirl is offline
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Hi Vin,

Quote:
Is there no possibility for a closer association to grow? It would seem Ka is an SO to you and Ki also and really, all of you are to each other. You are intimate with them and have love for them so maybe Ka is struggling with this being treated like 3 straight mono women and one poly guy when that isn't really what is going on. Could it be she is wanting that kind of acknowledgement from all her lovers and not just D?
I’ve been thinking on this… the thing is, we are NOT lovers to each other; we are only lovers to D. We do love each other, but are not in love with each other. We are close friends and have intimacy with each other, but we are not romantic or sexual partners: nor do we desire this. So, I’m not sure how much closer we can get or what kind of acknowledgement Ka could want.

And I don’t truly think she struggles with any lack of acknowledgement from me or Ki; She does struggle with the lack of acknowledgement from D that she is “first”, because she isn’t. Again, we are not in a hierarchal structure so there is no number 1.

I believe Ka would be more comfortable in a relationship structure where she is clearly the primary and any other lovers are clearly secondary or tertiary. She wants first “dibs”, whether it is for time or attention or sex and she wants a say in D’s other relationships. I’m not saying that she doesn’t love me and Ki. She does. She also wants us to be happy, as a group and in our individual relationships.

As long as everyone is getting their regular date nights, things go smoothly. But, when that is disrupted and Ka clearly doesn’t get first dibs on what time is available, she gets bent. And that is the biggest issue I have with the whole situation. The sense of entitlement, along with a double standard and the desire for one set of “rules” for her and another for me.

I know at this point that I can’t fix it. I can only continue to deal with myself, D and her in a respectful, loving manner. She has to do the heavy lifting for her own stuff as I did for mine.

PipersGirl
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  #216  
Old 10-12-2012, 08:26 PM
PipersGirl PipersGirl is offline
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Hi SCat,

Quote:
Equal treatment is not always enough for everyone. A child with disabilities will get more special treatment from his parent, because he will need it. A more independent child might not mind letting herself in after school. Receiving the same treatment isn't the same as feeling the same pinch. You are more suited to tolerate a mono-poly relationship than Ka seems to be.
This is so true. I’ve accepted that she “needs” more attention and/or time than me and don’t have a problem with it. I am an introvert and enjoy and need alone time. Though I have trouble accepting that she “needs” more sex than me and struggle with inequity in this area.

After much hard work, I think I am better suited for this type of mono-poly relationship than she is. Like I said above, she would be more comfortable being a primary with any other relationships as secondary.

PipersGirl
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  #217  
Old 10-12-2012, 09:06 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
I'm flabbergasted that anybody would think something like that is necessary. Anybody who isn't automatically honest and communicative and respectful of others simply isn't ready for a serious relationship of any sort. I wouldn't think of offering that sort of basic emotional maturity up as a ruleset, though I suspect it would work well as a guage of how ready a new partner is for a serious relationship. Somebody who is *not* honest and communicative and respectful and so on isn't somebody with whom I'll stay involved.
@AT,

It's not a bad idea to state these things openly. It might see obvious to you, as it does to me too, but not everyone is on the same page in their ability to manage relationships, or has good communication skills yet, or even accepted the idea that, yes, one should be open, respectful, and honest to partners. And, yeah, maybe those folks are not ready for relationships. But maybe guidelines like these are a good first step, a reminder of how best to proceed.
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  #218  
Old 10-12-2012, 09:55 PM
Vinccenzo Vinccenzo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PipersGirl View Post
Hi Vin,



I’ve been thinking on this… the thing is, we are NOT lovers to each other; we are only lovers to D. We do love each other, but are not in love with each other. We are close friends and have intimacy with each other, but we are not romantic or sexual partners: nor do we desire this. So, I’m not sure how much closer we can get or what kind of acknowledgement Ka could want.

And I don’t truly think she struggles with any lack of acknowledgement from me or Ki; She does struggle with the lack of acknowledgement from D that she is “first”, because she isn’t. Again, we are not in a hierarchal structure so there is no number 1.

I believe Ka would be more comfortable in a relationship structure where she is clearly the primary and any other lovers are clearly secondary or tertiary. She wants first “dibs”, whether it is for time or attention or sex and she wants a say in D’s other relationships. I’m not saying that she doesn’t love me and Ki. She does. She also wants us to be happy, as a group and in our individual relationships.

As long as everyone is getting their regular date nights, things go smoothly. But, when that is disrupted and Ka clearly doesn’t get first dibs on what time is available, she gets bent. And that is the biggest issue I have with the whole situation. The sense of entitlement, along with a double standard and the desire for one set of “rules” for her and another for me.

I know at this point that I can’t fix it. I can only continue to deal with myself, D and her in a respectful, loving manner. She has to do the heavy lifting for her own stuff as I did for mine.

PipersGirl
I'm sorry, I guess I got the wrong impression from the threesome and foursome activities. :/

If she needs a primary recognition from her male partner then maybe when she finds one she won't vie for it so much with D and you all can have a smoother association. Hang in there and good luck!
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  #219  
Old 10-12-2012, 10:07 PM
LoveBomb LoveBomb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoringGuy View Post
River is a man.
Thanks for the clarification. It can be hard to tell on the internets .


Quote:
Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
I'm flabbergasted that anybody would think something like that is necessary. Anybody who isn't automatically honest and communicative and respectful of others simply isn't ready for a serious relationship of any sort. I wouldn't think of offering that sort of basic emotional maturity up as a ruleset, though I suspect it would work well as a guage of how ready a new partner is for a serious relationship. Somebody who is *not* honest and communicative and respectful and so on isn't somebody with whom I'll stay involved.
I don't mean to to insult you when I say this, but your answer sounds terribly naive. You're incredibly lucky to have such excellent communication with your partner and a lack of emotional baggage holding you back (and so am I), but there are a lot of people out there who have been burned multiple times for being honest with their partners, and thus find it very difficult to communicate openly. Laying out the ground rules of how you'd like to be treated is important in ANY relationship, if only because everyone has different ideas of how they would like to be treated. Even something as simple as "treat me with respect" has wildly different meanings to different people because the word "respect" has different definitions for everyone.

For example, I make a conscious effort to answer every email, phone call, and text message I receive in a timely manner, regardless of who it's from, because I would like the same courtesy in return. Do I get that same courtesy? Often times, no. It's actually a rarity that someone will get back to me in a timely manner (within 24 hours), especially in the business world. It bugs the shit out of me, but I don't hold it against the people that take a while to respond. I've learned that I have very different ideas of respect and how people should be treated compared to most of the rest of the world.

That being said, every relationship is different, which means every person will bring different expectations to the table. You would THINK that being open and honest is the course of action that everyone would naturally gravitate to in a relationship, but it simply isn't. Fear of being honest, as a result from past hurts, can cause someone to clam up. Likewise, fear of hurting the other person can also cause a person to be dishonest. "I don't want to hurt him/her so I won't tell her how I really feel" is so incredibly common. One of my best friends recently broke up with his fiance because he opened up to her about a girl he met at an event he attended, and mentioned how awesome she was. His fiance flipped out, assumed he cheated on her (even though he didn't) and demanded that he not have any friends he's attracted to. As such, they broke up. Sadly this is a pretty common reaction from people in monogamous relationships, and when you're burned for being honest, it makes it a lot harder to be honest in your next relationship.

You should really take a step back and understand that your wonderful, open, and honest relationship that you have with your partner is NOT the norm. You and I have very healthy relationships with our partners in that respect, but a lot of other people don't. Talking about the ground rules of how you expect to be treated is also a part of being open with your communication. So taking that for granted is not the best course of action.

From what I gather, here, it seems like a lot of people don't like the word "rules" when it comes to relationships. But every aspect of society is built upon rules. Rules are what define the boundaries of any given relationship and are extremely important. Rules are the very reason we draw up contracts in business. We can't assume that everyone involved in a business arrangement is going to see things the same way. That mentality just gets everyone into trouble and the whole arrangement will eventually fall apart. Everyone has different expectations and desires in ANY relationship. Simply saying, "I expect to be treated the same way I treat my partner" is a naive response. How you expect to be treated may be different than how your partner expects to be treated. Laying out the ground rules of how you expect to be treated is what ALLOWS for open communication.

P.S. GalaGirl - Great answer. Thanks
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  #220  
Old 10-12-2012, 11:14 PM
BoringGuy BoringGuy is offline
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So, an absence of rules specifying that you respect your partner and treat them well implies that it's ok to disrespect your partner and treat them poorly?

And, having rules specifying that your partner treat you well and respect you is supposed to PREVENT them from disrespecting you and treating you poorly?

I think this is how Autumnal Tone is saying such rules do not make sense.

If someone respects their partner(s), they can communicate about these matters AS NECESSARY and don't need to make "rules" about it. If someone disrespects you or treats you poorly, or responds poorly to your own efforts at being yourself and being honest, it is foolish and immature to project those issues onto other/future relationships.

My opinion is that all too often, people try to be in relationships with individuals with whom they are fundamentally incompatible. No amount of well-thought-out "rules" can compensate for that.
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