Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Life stories and blogs

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #371  
Old 10-09-2012, 10:35 AM
midnightsun's Avatar
midnightsun midnightsun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: In the deep wilderness next to the man I love, raising a few wild animals some might call children.
Posts: 64
Default

So yeah... I have been to the poly board once in about a year or more. I'm sure most of the people on here now likely have no idea who I am or forgot about me if they ever knew in the first place. No matter, the short version is I'm friends w/LR, Maca, GG and the rest of the peas in their pod. I've been watching all of this from the sidelines for the most part but after BSNG (Boundary-Stomping New Girl) *giggling* announced their boundaries were "too complicated" to discuss, I felt compelled to post this on LR's main blog:

I think the issues go far deeper than just one person’s self-centered lack of interest in putting time and energy into a relationship she doesn’t deem worthy of the effort.

Boundaries in any relationship are more than just a set of rules to be jumped through like hoops. When a monogamous couple makes a commitment to one another, they establish compatibility by discussing their values, expectations, needs, goals etc. If they decide to commit to the relationship long-term, they exchange vows as well which are intended to symbolize the covenant and “contract” of sorts between the couple.

In a poly relationship, those values, expectations, needs, and goals have to be discussed between EVERYONE involved with the dynamic in order for this mutual compatibility to be established. Anyone who doesn’t grasp this concept, or isn’t willing to put in the extra effort it takes to accomplish this basic foundation of ANY relationship, has no business being involved in a poly dynamic. Particularly when the person in question claims to be experienced in “poly” relationships.

It’s my impression that she actually has NO experience in polyamorous relationships. There is no question she has experience in OPEN relationships. According to her own accounts, her spouse is OK with her seeing whomever she wishes, but her boyfriend is NOT. Despite this, she actively pursues other relationships which has resulted in at least one physical altercation. This communicates to me that what she actually desires is to have a relationship WITHOUT boundaries of any kind. She can’t be bothered to sit down and go over “complicated” lists of rules and boundaries, not because she doesn’t value this potential relationship, but because she doesn’t value rules and boundaries PERIOD.

She’s already demonstrated she does not respect her current SO’s boundaries and they are less important to her than her desire to be able to do what she wants. Furthermore, she’s demonstrated it’s not important to her to learn what the boundaries/rules are in Maca’s dynamic. She has learned from Maca that he broke his own rules and violated his covenant with LR. The reason this wasn’t significant to her is because she doesn’t value rules and boundaries, not because she values the relationship with Maca. The reason she wants him (and LR) to make exceptions to the covenant they made with each other on her behalf is not because she thinks THEIR rules shouldn’t apply to her. It’s because she thinks rules shouldn’t apply to her PERIOD.

Personally, if I were in LR's shoes my terms for BSNG and Maca pursuing a relationship of any nature from this point forward would be very simple. There would be only one requirement: ABOLISH YOUR ENTIRE BOUNDARY LIST. If he and she wish to pursue a relationship without boundaries or rules, then that goes both ways. He needs to decide exactly how important rules and boundaries are to HIM.

The reason behind my statement is simple. It's unreasonable and unfair to expect other people to know when it's ok to toss the rules out the window and when it's not. If the rules are arbitrary depending on who they're applied to, then the rules are pointless and you may as well not have any.

Furthermore, I'm well aware that Maca & LR sit down yearly and made adjustments to their boundary list. As many of you noted, their boundaries are very well defined, extremely detailed and considerably limit the relationship between LR and GG. Guess who is missing from this annual negotiation of boundaries that govern and define his rights within his family and his primary and ONLY partner? GG. He has absolutely ZERO right to give input to the rules that he's expected to follow in explicit detail, despite having put in YEARS of work and effort within that family and poly relationship. He's not even poly!!! But this Boundary Stomping New Girl comes sauntering into the picture and the rules are supposed to bend for her because they're "unreasonable and complicated?"

Tough. Seriously... too f@!#%$ bad!! How many hours and hours have all of you put into being on this message board, trying to learn what you can from each other in the interest of making things work within your poly situation? You're here now, following LR & Maca's situation, evaluating their boundary rules, offering advice and considering how to apply some of what you've learned to your own relationships. Yet, she finds it "too complicated" just to sit down and let someone explain all this to her... for her own benefit. If you don't want to play by the rules, you get sent to the penalty box. Continue not to play by the rules, you get ejected from the game. That's simple reality.

I won't pretend to know all that much about poly, but one thing I DO know about making it work is this: everyone involved in the dynamic MUST be capable and WILLING to ensure that ALL the other people connected to the dynamic are getting their primary needs met to the greatest extent possible. If any single person in the relationship is hyperfocused on there OWN needs to the detriment of anyone else involved, and they refuse to re-direct their focus outward, it's only a matter of time until the whole thing implodes.

Maca's actions and attitude regarding this entire situation have been so clearly self-centered that it shocks me he can't see that THAT is what prevents him from finding a long-term secondary partner. The best advice anyone could have ever offered to him was given to him years ago by his & LR's son: "Dad... get over yourself."
__________________
"Life is too short to always sit around worrying about the bad shit that could happen. It's a lot more fun to go start some shit of my own. "

Last edited by midnightsun; 10-09-2012 at 10:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #372  
Old 10-09-2012, 11:10 AM
Phy's Avatar
Phy Phy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 602
Default

Thanks for this comment from the sidelines. Most of your points regarding the gf are exactly what came to (my) mind when reading about LR's situation and problems with her.

What I find most disturbing is the love-hate element I found whenever LR told us about Maca. I discussed this with my partner today and he said what I was thinking: "Did Maca ever overcome any of the negative things that happened in their marriage and with the cheating incident? If they got passed it and decided that this was cleared and over, some of his actions simply don't match that fact/agreement."

I really hope that you will be able to solve this mess LR and that some peace will come out of it finally and back into your homelife. Very sad to read about so many negative developments
__________________
Facts: 30, female, bi, v-type relationship with Sward (husband, straight, mono) and Lin (boyfriend, straight, mono), poly-fi and co-primary.

My Blog
Reply With Quote
  #373  
Old 10-09-2012, 11:21 AM
midnightsun's Avatar
midnightsun midnightsun is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: In the deep wilderness next to the man I love, raising a few wild animals some might call children.
Posts: 64
Default

Excellent observation Phy, and an extremely valid question. I think the unresolved negative events in their marriage absolutely play into the issues that are impacting them now. All three of them are acutely aware of it and with the awareness come the responsibility to take action to address the issue rather than holding on to the resentment like a worn out security blanket. Furthermore, some of the basis for Maca's negativity and the love/hate dynamic goes further back than his marriage to LR. He's aware of the impact of these unresolved past events too. He knows the steps necessary for moving towards improving his relationship(s) in general. But knowing the path we need to take is not the same as standing up and walking it.
__________________
"Life is too short to always sit around worrying about the bad shit that could happen. It's a lot more fun to go start some shit of my own. "
Reply With Quote
  #374  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:37 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,151
Default

Phy-
He SAYS repeatedly that he's dealt with it.
We're WELL aware that this is untrue.
The crux of the issue is that its impossible to MAKE someone deal with their shit.

So, it keep coming up, like the Garth Brooks song-We Bury the Hatchet.

Every time his world crumbles emotionally-he lashes back out at GG and I.

This time, it was 7 months of peace.


He says the primary issue is simply that he resents the 'inequality' that I have someone and he does not.

I could write for hours on the topic and get no where. He isn't interested in discovering how much more attractive he would be LONG TERM to others if he were to simply STOP.
Ironically, what she didn't say, is Midnight Sun was one of those people who was interested in him. But, she saw through the game more quickly, because she IS friends with EVERYONE in the family. So she was here watching the fallout and knows where the "volcanic ash" is REALLY originating.

I told GG last night, it's astonishing to me that I can run workshops helping people grasp basic tenets and steps in creating healthy polydynamics; but my own husband refuses to even consider doing them.
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #375  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:41 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,151
Default GG's needs/rights

I will add,
GG doesn't participate (any more) in the boundary discussions with Maca because he see's it as a waste of his time.

His boundaries and needs aren't of importance to Maca and he knows it.

But, he also knows that they are to me. He and I talk and we go over what is or isn't working for us and I keep those things in mind in terms of what MY needs are when going over boundaries with Maca.

Thus, the boundaries that exist do meet GG and I's needs. They could be much more ingratiating to the depth of our relationship. But, the bottom line is, we don't either one struggle with the insecurities and fears that Maca does. But, we were part of the creation of those insecurities and we are both willing to make allowances to our freedoms as recompense.

The STI rules and the limits on what level of commitment is necessary for family involvement are actually both boundaries that I have included on GG's behalf. Also, the drug use is on GG's behalf.
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #376  
Old 10-09-2012, 05:44 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,151
Default Maca-abandonment and insecurity

I forget sometimes that it's been over 2 years since Maca wrote here.

But, yes there is a long history of abandonment and abuse in his past.
His insecurities originate with the abandonment by his mother and they have been increased with every woman who has entered and exited his life. To include every woman he's dated in our poly dynamic.

Those abandonment issues and fears were compounded by my affair.

But, he has to choose to get help for that. I can't make him and I can't help him.
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #377  
Old 10-10-2012, 04:02 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,912
Default

Sigh. I am sorry you are enduring this.

Purple mine.

Quote:
But, the bottom line is, we don't either one struggle with the insecurities and fears that Maca does. But, we were part of the creation of those insecurities (No. His insecure is HIS feeling. You helped create the old situation making of the cheating start affair. Not his insecure.) and we are both willing to make allowances to our freedoms as recompense. (in the new situation making of being in trio in polyship... even at the expense of the new situation ever getting to fly straight?)
Have you done enough time served yet? When does "The needs of the many" in the polyship outweigh "the needs of the one" take effect? The need of the polyship to fly straight in harmony? Versus individual needs?
  • Maca's need to not make waves and need to not do personal growth work and not remove himself from the polyship for his own best health interest. He clearly wants to be more monoshipping and is under strain.
  • GG's need to not make waves and need to not deal in boundary patrol and perimeter walks and not deal in removing the polyship from Maca. Prob under strain.
  • LR's need to not makes waves and need to be the fix it all lady and not deal in removing the polyship from Maca. Def under strain.

It's like nobody wanted to make the waves before and here we are again. Nobody wanting to make waves now. Everyone wants to deal with their own need, but ignores their duty to serve the needs of the greater polyship they created. So it can fly well and fly straight.

Everyone endures a crooked polyship and polyship nausea because... nobody wants to reach out for personal harmony? Polyship harmony? Be free of strain? Baffling. Y'all sound depressed. Everyone been to check ups?

If this REALLY were a spaceship you all are crew members on... if it was going around flying in squiggles in the air... Ground Control would signal you and go "WTF crew!? Everyone ok? Is the ship broken? Do you need to land for medic/repairs? Is anyone at the controls? The mission is to go where you have not gone before in harmonious polyshipping trio -- not keep on squigglin' around here all the time in same squigglefest endangering yourselves, the ship, and others if you crash. How can we help you solve the prob? Hello? Hello? Is there anybody in there? "

Thing is, in polyshipping you ARE your own Ground Control. It becomes the greatest balancing act ever -- my needs, their needs, the great polyship needs... spinning many plates at once.

You are in a Time of Discernment for yourself if you are considering leaving (when?) or staying (for how long before next assessment? Or for final landing?) You have to make choices about what sustains your own health and well being.

And that's all we can ever do. Sigh. We cannot choose how we feel. We just feel it. We can only control our own behavior, and choose what the next behavior will be in response to our current feeling.

We choose who to be in relationship with or not and how. It is hard. I do not know what you guys want to pick for yourselves next. But my heart goes out to you all because you struggle so now.

Hang in there. But do choose. Even not choosing is a choice. Time does have a habit of solving things all on its own.

But then your choice on the table is "Do I have the Time to lose to solve this problem with the option of "choosing not to choose?" Is this the best way to spend the time of my life?"

We are always choosing and not choosing. Life Chess. Play well.

Let the board know what kind of specific support you are needing at this time if you know it. I'm willing to help give support. I cannot choose things for you. That I wouldn't be willing to do even if I could. Not my chess game to play.

So I'll just give the general support of the ministry of presence since I do not know your specific support needs:
  • Aye. My heart goes out to you. I cannot change a thing. I can only choose to dwell in your pain, if even for a moment, to write you a note you can see. And take on a bit of your burden so your load becomes a bit lighter. At least enough so you know you are not suffering alone and unseen. *hug*
  • Aye. I see you struggle in a Time of Suckage. I see your suffering. It does indeed suck.
  • I see you, though your inner light right now burns dim and not the brightest LR light it could be.

I do still see you.

I see you. Shine on!

Namaste.
GalaGirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-10-2012 at 06:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #378  
Old 10-10-2012, 04:54 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,157
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
I forget sometimes that it's been over 2 years since Maca wrote here.
It hasn't been that long. I've been a member for about two years and he participated fairly regularly when I joined. I recall the last time Maca posting here was around the time he moved out and got a place in town temporarily. Then you disappeared for a while to work on shit between you. I was glad to see you back, as it seemed you two had resolved alot, he'd moved back home, and you were happy.

I suspect Maca operates a lot out of fear of success, as well as his other issues. Nothing can be too great for too long, for him it seems. You stay strong. I do like MidnightSun's suggestion that if he wants to throw out rules for this chick, you can throw out rules, too -- but I remember you saying that before, as well. Hate to say this, but maybe it is just time to walk away for a while.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #379  
Old 10-10-2012, 06:17 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,151
Default

Galagirl-I will respond longer later. Have class today. But, thank you. I'm going to share this post with the guys tonight. I think it speaks a very important message for RIGHT NOW.

Nyc-you are right. But he's been avoiding the boards awhile. To the question of him coming and writing his side he replied 'I'm not going on the board. I'm not going to defend myself.'

I am kinda hoping that gg will come write a little. But we'll see.
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #380  
Old 10-10-2012, 09:53 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,151
Default Links to our start in poly

My intro to the board:
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...ghlight=Affair

A little History:
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...ghlight=Affair

How things were progressing: 1/2010
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...ghlight=Affair


Maca's perspectives:
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...ghlight=Affair

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...ghlight=Affair

About Maca's first date:
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...light=cheating

On GG's role in my life:
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...light=cheating

From my personal Blog:

About GG and I:
https://aafteota.wordpress.com/wp-ad...61&action=edit

My thoughts on relationship/ideal relationship:
https://aafteota.wordpress.com/wp-ad...41&action=edit
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
commitment, family oriented, love, lovingradiance, progress, v formation, vee dynamics

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:16 PM.