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  #11  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:49 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by Vinccenzo View Post
Someone who doesn't want to be involved with someone who engages in particular acts and those acts could be going on with one of his other partners. Do we tell that person its none of their business? That they shouldn't be able to ask for assurance that one of there partners is indeed someone they would have no qualms about being intimate with?
Ka is not asking whether they engage in particular acts, she knows they do. When and how often is absolutely none of her business. It only feeds her insecurity, and has absolutely no effect on her safety.

Clearly, she does have qualms about being intimate with someone who is intimate with others. Why she's still in a polyamorous relationship is beyond me, she doesn't really seem cut out for it.
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  #12  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:59 PM
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Ka is not asking whether they engage in particular acts, she knows they do. When and how often is absolutely none of her business. It only feeds her insecurity, and has absolutely no effect on her safety.

Clearly, she does have qualms about being intimate with someone who is intimate with others. Why she's still in a polyamorous relationship is beyond me, she doesn't really seem cut out for it.
I've noticed that there are some people who try to be "poly" as a test to see if their significant other really loves them. Like, they let them go to other people, but they are always the best and they always get the most time, and maybe their SO eventually decides that even after all that shopping around, there is really no one but them.

It is kind of an insecurity thing, and not a good place to start poly from. If you are being poly to play the comparison game and to prove how you stand up in comparison to others, you are setting yourself and your partner up for a lot of hurt and resentment, and should probably stick to swinging if anything.
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  #13  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:11 PM
Vinccenzo Vinccenzo is offline
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Originally Posted by PipersGirl View Post
I don’t believe it is ok for me to decide what information is important to someone else. HOWEVER, I do get to decide what information I’m comfortable sharing. Why does another’s need to know trump my need for privacy?
It is a conundrum and has me wondering the same. I'm in no way admonishing. Just that when it isn't something we need some times it is easy to consider it something no one SHOULD need. But needs vary from what I can tell.

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Originally Posted by PipersGirl View Post
I have conflicting feelings about this. If we’re talking about safer sex practices, I fully agree that every partner has a right to know. And I want to know who my lover is having sex with and would expect that his other partners feel the same. And all of us know who D is having sex with: the three of us and no one else as we are a closed group.
And for this I'd wonder if it compounds the problem coloring it as a get with it or get out angle for anyone. He is THE male source for all - FIN? No room for compromise on this? Or no want or interest presently but its negotionable?

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Originally Posted by PipersGirl View Post
If there is a particular act that someone isn’t comfortable with, they have every right to say so and to not engage in that act. I even agree that they can ask their partner if they engage in that act with others and then choose not to be with that partner; they don’t have a right to insist that their partner not engage in said act with another willing partner. And if they ask and are told, yes, I do engage in that act with my other partner/s, they have their answer and it is really none of their business how often said act occurs.
I have met a person who is completely squeamish about anything related to bdsm and wouldn't want to be with anyone who engages in it even with others.
As well there is another thread on here about kink waxing and waning with one partner who misses it while they know their partner participates in it with others. I just didn't know if that was an influencing part of this situation you're dealing with.

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Originally Posted by PipersGirl View Post
Maybe I’m missing something… Ka **knows** D and I have sex on a regular basis. What possible difference does it make if over any given time period, we have sex once, 10 times or not at all? Or if we have lights off missionary sex in the bed or swinging from a trapeze 20 feet in the air outside?
It could matter if the trapeze was Ka's favorite and now she gets none of that anymore while YOU do. I have no idea if that is what up but I could see how it might hurt if that was going on and she might ask about it trying to figure out why she isn't getting to enjoy it too. If it is just down to her wanting to know all intimacy acts - how often - just so she can tally it up and match it then I can totally see why it would be a big headache to deal with.

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Originally Posted by PipersGirl View Post
Whether or not I’m made aware of any disruption, I feel it. Problems between D and Ka spill over into my relationship even if he doesn’t say anything. And it boils down to this: she is asking about the frequency of our sexual encounters to keep score; not because she is uncomfortable with us doing certain things, but because she wants to ensure that I don’t get more or “better” than she does. I KNOW this because she said, out of her own mouth, “I get bent when I think you’re having more sex than me.” If she was asking because it turned her on or out of genuine curiousity, I would more easily give up some privacy.
Thanks for clarifying - its exactly what I was wondering. It does make me wonder though - you're all pretty intimate even with each other and not just with D. I wouldn't even begin to know how to have privacy without making someone I AM intimate with feel like a need, especially a new need for privacy isn't a rejection and personal. You can know this and this and every inch of my body but not how often I have sex? I'm not saying its wrong to try, I just don't get how it could be done without those moments of privacy feeling exclusionary and intentional. Maybe she can't either? It is a very interesting situation to me.

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Originally Posted by PipersGirl View Post
But, when she asks, doesn’t like the answer, gets pissy about it and then the fallout hits me, my instinct is to pull back, close up and say it’s none of your business! What D and I do when alone is between us. And I do believe that D and I should have things that are just between us; this applies to his other relationships as well. Ka wants to know EVERYTHING because she needs assurance that she is “special” and she seeks that by a) spending more time with him and b) getting more sex. She want to be most important, number one, QBIC and that irritates the hell out of me as we’ve ALL discussed and agreed that the relationship is not structured that way.
I'm starting to wonder if its not all down to some fumbling on D's part. Hes not living up to something with her and she is freaking out due to it? There something going on with them, some agreement or standard that he is telling her is okay but not cluing you into? Something seems amiss for sure.

[QUOTE=PipersGirl;158294]Yes, Ka and myself have regular scheduled one on one date nights with D; Ki doesn’t – they occasionally have one on one nights. And Ka, Ki and myself are not lovers to each other. We are not sexually or romantically involved with each other. We are all straight and only have sex with D. The three of us are close, love each other and are affectionate with each other, but we’re not in love with each other. I’ll going a little more in depth about our dynamics below and this is important to know.

I agree. She does know what happens with Ki because she’s there. I honestly believe that Ka wants to know and, to an extent, control everything about D’s sex life. She would gladly be there every time he has sex and still want one on one sex too.

Her jealousy of me has waned, but it’s still there BECAUSE she isn’t there for my one on one relationship with D. She still views me as “competition”. To be honest, there is some truth to that. Love may not be limited, but time is limited and so is attention and energy to include sexual energy. Any time spent with me is time not spent with her; any sex with me takes away potential sexual energy from her. And the same is true for me. Plus, Ka and I are very similar in our sexual tastes and appetites, while Ki is more vanilla and less libidinous. [QUOTE]

Perhaps D isn't being realistic in how much gas his tank can hold as the only male lover in the mix and she is feeling the pinch of it?

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Originally Posted by PipersGirl View Post
On to the more in depth (romantic/sexual) dynamics:

D-myself: regular scheduled one on one date nights
D-Ka: regular scheduled one on one date nights
D-Ki: occasional one on one date nights
D-Ki-Ka: regular scheduled date nights (they’ve been in this threesome for almost 2 years)
D-myself-Ka: semi-regular threesomes
D-myself-Ka-Ki: occasional foursomes
D-myself-Ki: haven’t done it and not forcing it
(Of course, there are the friendships between and among myself, Ka and Ki, but I’m only dealing with the sexual aspects of our dynamic.)

So, we are very comfortable with each other and pretty familiar with each other’s sexuality. Maybe that’s why some boundaries are blurred. And to be fair, I’ve never asked Ka not to ask about my private time with D, nor I have asked him not to tell her. Like I said above, my renewed desire for more privacy surrounding my sex life with D, is due more to the fallout from her reaction to his answers, than anything else.

And the only one of these dynamics that Ka has a real issue with is the one between D and myself for all the reasons outlined above. At this point, I’ve accepted that there is a problem and I’ve done what I can to be supportive and understanding, but it’s not my issue to resolve. I’m just trying to effectively deal with and minimize the impact on me, my relationship with D and my relationship with Ka.

Thanks again for the responses. They were great tools in helping me clarify what I’m feeling.

Pipersgirl
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  #14  
Old 10-08-2012, 01:23 AM
PipersGirl PipersGirl is offline
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Hi all,

Thanks for the responses.

Combining posts:

Quote:
with poly relationships everyone should look at their relationship as just them as the partner and do they get the emotional , sexual and loving needs out of that relationship, it is hard not to compare but you should never compare how d is with you and how different it is with her.
I strive not to compare and I usually succeed. However, there is no way for me not to notice how much more time she normally gets - I made my peace with that a long time ago. Luckily, I don't need, nor want, constant contact with a lover.

Quote:
another issue on time, the problem with having more than one partner is sharing them equal, can you have one weekend each and share the other weekend as a foursome? have two days on week each maybe but set days every week or set weekends so noone feels left out and hopefully everyone will be happy.
We have discussed that, but neither Ka nor myself want to only see him once a month one on one. And he doesn't want that either. We actually tried it when all three relationships were completely separate and it didn't work then, so it wouldn't work now.

Quote:
Do you ever feel like you're tip-toeing around her, altering your behaviour in order to appease her? If so, stop. You say that you've only gotten more time than her a few times in years... So be more assertive, and get more time with him. Then let her keep score, let her complain that you spend more time with D than she does. And then say to her: "So what? Deal with it. You're not #1, and you are not entitled to special treatment. Get over it, or find someone who wants a #1." The only reason she continues these outbursts is because they're working for her. The only way to make them stop is to quit allowing them to work for her. Even that doesn't guarantee they'll stop, but you can be sure they won't stop as long as they're creating the outcome she desires.
I don't alter my behavior for her or tiptoe around her. I am honest and true to myself. I wouldn't say her outbursts have "worked" - there have been times when D wouldn't see her for weeks and/or limited the amount of time they spent together. I will agree that there haven't been any long-term consequences to those outbursts. The problem is she has been told she's not number one and never will be. That knowledge doesn't effect her desire to "keep score".

Quote:
I agree with previous posts that it's D who's dropping the ball here. After a certain point, the "he's new to this" argument stops holding water. You've told him explicitly what you want him to do: Stop sharing details about your relationship with Ka. There's nothing about being new to poly that makes that unclear or especially difficult. There is something about being a passive person that makes that difficult, and if that's how he is, then it's not likely to change. Don't make excuses for him.
D has dropped the ball, admitted that and made positive changes. And to be fair, I have only told D not to share "details"; I've never told him not to tell her if we had sex or how many times.

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Unfortunately, from what you've said, it doesn't sound like the situation is likely to change. You're doing everything you can to cope, and it's not enough to make you feel comfortable. You might need to consider that Ka's baggage is "the price of admission" for being with D, and then decide whether your relationship with D is worth that price.
I've thought about that a lot. Most of the time, I feel happy, content and comfortable in this relationship. Then wham! I get hit by the SAME issue that we've dealt with 111 times. That's frustrating. Being with D is worth it.

Quote:
Ka is not asking whether they engage in particular acts, she knows they do. When and how often is absolutely none of her business. It only feeds her insecurity, and has absolutely no effect on her safety.
I 100% agree with this. It's none of my business when and how often they have sex or engage in certain activities. If I'm dissatisfied with some aspect of my relationship with D, I address with him and I don't bring up what he does with Ka (or Ki for that matter).

Quote:
And for this I'd wonder if it compounds the problem coloring it as a get with it or get out angle for anyone. He is THE male source for all - FIN? No room for compromise on this? Or no want or interest presently but its negotionable?
There is some room for compromise. Speaking for myself, I have no want nor interest at this time.

Quote:
It could matter if the trapeze was Ka's favorite and now she gets none of that anymore while YOU do. I have no idea if that is what up but I could see how it might hurt if that was going on and she might ask about it trying to figure out why she isn't getting to enjoy it too. If it is just down to her wanting to know all intimacy acts - how often - just so she can tally it up and match it then I can totally see why it would be a big headache to deal with.
I can see this... sorta. But, like I said above, if I wasn't getting trapeze, I'd bring it up to D as to why we haven't done it, not ask if he's been doing with Ka and how often and then get made about the answer. What does that accomplish?

For the record, that isn't the case. It's not that I'm getting something that she wants and doesn't get - it's about the tally.

Quote:
Thanks for clarifying - its exactly what I was wondering. It does make me wonder though - you're all pretty intimate even with each other and not just with D. I wouldn't even begin to know how to have privacy without making someone I AM intimate with feel like a need, especially a new need for privacy isn't a rejection and personal. You can know this and this and every inch of my body but not how often I have sex? I'm not saying its wrong to try, I just don't get how it could be done without those moments of privacy feeling exclusionary and intentional. Maybe she can't either? It is a very interesting situation to me.
I've never told her when or how often D and I have sex. She has always gotten that information from him. I can see how it could be interpreted as a rejection; though given her trust issues, she would most likely take it as we were hiding something. And I think that is her biggest fear: that we're keeping "secrets" and in the end, she is going to lose D. Though, I do believe that D and I should have and need some "exclusionary and intentional" moments of privacy. Those feed ourrelationship.

Quote:
Hes not living up to something with her and she is freaking out due to it? There something going on with them, some agreement or standard that he is telling her is okay but not cluing you into? Something seems amiss for sure.
I don't think this is the case. If she doesn't get her "regular" time with D, she becomes clingy and needy; she has admitted this. Of course, D HATES clingy and needy and gets frustrated because if he doesn't spend time with her (or any of us), it's because he truly can't. And if I get my "regular" time, it compounds the issue and means that he loves me more.

Quote:
Perhaps D isn't being realistic in how much gas his tank can hold as the only male lover in the mix and she is feeling the pinch of it?
She doesn't feel the pinch any more than me. And we're all pretty realistic about the gas tank and know that choosing to stay in this relationship means that we won't get sex as often as preferred. I stay because there's more here than just sex. Hell, there would lots easier ways to get sex all the time!

Pipersgirl
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  #15  
Old 10-09-2012, 09:39 AM
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with poly relationships everyone should look at their relationship as just them as the partner and do they get the emotional , sexual and loving needs out of that relationship, it is hard not to compare but you should never compare how d is with you and how different it is with her.[/I]

Quote:
I strive not to compare and I usually succeed. However, there is no way for me not to notice how much more time she normally gets - I made my peace with that a long time ago. Luckily, I don't need, nor want, constant contact with a lover.
Quote:
another issue on time, the problem with having more than one partner is sharing them equal, can you have one weekend each and share the other weekend as a foursome? have two days on week each maybe but set days every week or set weekends so noone feels left out and hopefully everyone will be happy.

Quote:
We have discussed that, but neither Ka nor myself want to only see him once a month one on one. And he doesn't want that either. We actually tried it when all three relationships were completely separate and it didn't work then, so it wouldn't work now.
maybe not once a month then but equal time thoughout the month then, or when he is with the other person don't make a tally of how many times he sees one girl over the other.

right now are you happy with your relationship with him? and ask the other women if they are, if they are and you are then try to forget the outside negs on your relationship and get them to deal with it as it is not your fault x
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  #16  
Old 10-09-2012, 11:34 PM
Vinccenzo Vinccenzo is offline
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Is there no possibility for a closer association to grow? It would seem Ka is an SO to you and Ki also and really, all of you are to each other. You are intimate with them and have love for them so maybe Ka is struggling with this being treated like 3 straight mono women and one poly guy when that isn't really what is going on. Could it be she is wanting that kind of acknowledgement from all her lovers and not just D?
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:58 AM
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I can see this... sorta. But, like I said above, if I wasn't getting trapeze, I'd bring it up to D as to why we haven't done it, not ask if he's been doing with Ka and how often and then get made about the answer. What does that accomplish?
Well said. It accomplishes nothing.

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She doesn't feel the pinch any more than me. And we're all pretty realistic about the gas tank and know that choosing to stay in this relationship means that we won't get sex as often as preferred. I stay because there's more here than just sex. Hell, there would lots easier ways to get sex all the time!
Equal treatment is not always enough for everyone. A child with disabilities will get more special treatment from his parent, because he will need it. A more independent child might not mind letting herself in after school. Receiving the same treatment isn't the same as feeling the same pinch. You are more suited to tolerate a mono-poly relationship than Ka seems to be.
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  #18  
Old 10-12-2012, 07:59 PM
PipersGirl PipersGirl is offline
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Hi Vin,

Quote:
Is there no possibility for a closer association to grow? It would seem Ka is an SO to you and Ki also and really, all of you are to each other. You are intimate with them and have love for them so maybe Ka is struggling with this being treated like 3 straight mono women and one poly guy when that isn't really what is going on. Could it be she is wanting that kind of acknowledgement from all her lovers and not just D?
I’ve been thinking on this… the thing is, we are NOT lovers to each other; we are only lovers to D. We do love each other, but are not in love with each other. We are close friends and have intimacy with each other, but we are not romantic or sexual partners: nor do we desire this. So, I’m not sure how much closer we can get or what kind of acknowledgement Ka could want.

And I don’t truly think she struggles with any lack of acknowledgement from me or Ki; She does struggle with the lack of acknowledgement from D that she is “first”, because she isn’t. Again, we are not in a hierarchal structure so there is no number 1.

I believe Ka would be more comfortable in a relationship structure where she is clearly the primary and any other lovers are clearly secondary or tertiary. She wants first “dibs”, whether it is for time or attention or sex and she wants a say in D’s other relationships. I’m not saying that she doesn’t love me and Ki. She does. She also wants us to be happy, as a group and in our individual relationships.

As long as everyone is getting their regular date nights, things go smoothly. But, when that is disrupted and Ka clearly doesn’t get first dibs on what time is available, she gets bent. And that is the biggest issue I have with the whole situation. The sense of entitlement, along with a double standard and the desire for one set of “rules” for her and another for me.

I know at this point that I can’t fix it. I can only continue to deal with myself, D and her in a respectful, loving manner. She has to do the heavy lifting for her own stuff as I did for mine.

PipersGirl
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  #19  
Old 10-12-2012, 08:26 PM
PipersGirl PipersGirl is offline
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Hi SCat,

Quote:
Equal treatment is not always enough for everyone. A child with disabilities will get more special treatment from his parent, because he will need it. A more independent child might not mind letting herself in after school. Receiving the same treatment isn't the same as feeling the same pinch. You are more suited to tolerate a mono-poly relationship than Ka seems to be.
This is so true. I’ve accepted that she “needs” more attention and/or time than me and don’t have a problem with it. I am an introvert and enjoy and need alone time. Though I have trouble accepting that she “needs” more sex than me and struggle with inequity in this area.

After much hard work, I think I am better suited for this type of mono-poly relationship than she is. Like I said above, she would be more comfortable being a primary with any other relationships as secondary.

PipersGirl
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  #20  
Old 10-12-2012, 09:55 PM
Vinccenzo Vinccenzo is offline
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Originally Posted by PipersGirl View Post
Hi Vin,



I’ve been thinking on this… the thing is, we are NOT lovers to each other; we are only lovers to D. We do love each other, but are not in love with each other. We are close friends and have intimacy with each other, but we are not romantic or sexual partners: nor do we desire this. So, I’m not sure how much closer we can get or what kind of acknowledgement Ka could want.

And I don’t truly think she struggles with any lack of acknowledgement from me or Ki; She does struggle with the lack of acknowledgement from D that she is “first”, because she isn’t. Again, we are not in a hierarchal structure so there is no number 1.

I believe Ka would be more comfortable in a relationship structure where she is clearly the primary and any other lovers are clearly secondary or tertiary. She wants first “dibs”, whether it is for time or attention or sex and she wants a say in D’s other relationships. I’m not saying that she doesn’t love me and Ki. She does. She also wants us to be happy, as a group and in our individual relationships.

As long as everyone is getting their regular date nights, things go smoothly. But, when that is disrupted and Ka clearly doesn’t get first dibs on what time is available, she gets bent. And that is the biggest issue I have with the whole situation. The sense of entitlement, along with a double standard and the desire for one set of “rules” for her and another for me.

I know at this point that I can’t fix it. I can only continue to deal with myself, D and her in a respectful, loving manner. She has to do the heavy lifting for her own stuff as I did for mine.

PipersGirl
I'm sorry, I guess I got the wrong impression from the threesome and foursome activities. :/

If she needs a primary recognition from her male partner then maybe when she finds one she won't vie for it so much with D and you all can have a smoother association. Hang in there and good luck!
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