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  #51  
Old 10-07-2012, 03:55 AM
happinesswins happinesswins is offline
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S.cat.....Thank you for your reply . Nice to get the details from your situation. I do understand your husband is not ployamorous, just enjoys the sex and wants to help a friend.I like your bug analogy.If she likes bugs ( at least wont squish them ) i wouldn't encourage that she take him along . I said your husband wasn't poly. I got that from your post . I get that he doesn't follow poly guidelines .I can see that he doesn't want to develop feelings with your friend and that you are both worried that she may , and that he cant mirror those. I too have a husband that works long hard hours , 2 states away, and barely has time to scratch, let alone spend enough time with us.I would not recommend that you husband "spreads " himself any "thinner ". ( a problem that none of you need ) There will always be a chance that people ( anyone ) could develop feelings for someone if they spend time together , let alone have an intimate or sexual relationship.No one is completely resistant to this , some sort of bond will usually form .( even clients fall for prostitutes and this starts as a business arrangement ) . This bond usually requires some nurturing and attention in order to keep the person with the feelings content.Sometimes the other party has no interest in doing this, therefore one or both end up hurt. Your husband expressed that he has no intention of dealing with another womans emotions, he is a smart man , i think he has enough to deal with by the sound of it . I feared that he was risking exactly this by entering into this arrangement, could be his "price of admission "! Your girlfriend entering into this arrangement could have her feelings hurt , her "price of admission "! No i wouldn't suggest my girlfriend have sex with a guy who just wants sex ( knowing her state and her likelihood of developing feelings ) This puts her at risk . Now its your husband , brother or friend , someone you know and trust , who listens to you and your concerns,that's now considering taking the place of the guy ( who just wants sex ). You discuss everything at the start and do your best to organize a situation that protect him and her and you.Great.........Now .. you know she is likely to develop feelings ( in her state) and the man you have set her up with ( safe and caring ) is NOT emotionally available ( any further than he was prior ).Yes he is her friend and is trustworthy, but he's not really any different than the other guy ??Neither wants to attach emotionally with her . The SEX guy may not even be her friend , you husband or brother etc will be , but aren't they that already ? The fear of her getting hurt is still the same .Only this time she could be hurt by someone who actually does care about her. Isn't this harder to deal with later ? I think you make a much better friend than match maker and she will benefit much more from your support if things go wrong, if you are more removed from the HURT.Your husband , brother or whoever,can also better support her if they aren't the ones hurting her. She needs all her friends doesn't she ? It seems inevitable that she will be hurt unless she invests her time and energy ( including sexual ) into people that are emotionally available and can return her feelings. There are no guarantees she wont still get hurt,but at least there is the possibility of a future ?I never thought that your Polyness was relevant in this situation , your concern for your friends well-being is ! TO IDEALIST .. your post is a perfect example of how our best intentions can blow up in our face . Thanks for your input ....
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  #52  
Old 10-07-2012, 06:24 AM
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Emm Emm is offline
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happinesswins, I honestly can't read more than the first line or two of your posts before my eyeballs give up. Could you please include paragraph breaks and try to put the punctuation where it belongs?
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  #53  
Old 10-07-2012, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by idealist View Post
I had a "best friend" like that for many years. I considered her 'like a sister" and I was the friend that was "always there for her". All of her other friends and family admired me for being so loyal. However- I finally realized that she was wreaking havoc in my life. I had to admit that I had outgrown her and that she was so dysfunctional and self centered that she was not really contributing anything to our friendship or to me. In fact, she began to sabotage my primary relationship and that is when I had my wake-up call. I had become her rescuer. It was one sided and had been for a while. I ended the relationship. I still think of her and I miss her, but I do not regret ended the friendship. I have moved on and I have made new friends with healthier people who respect me.
It doesn't sound like your friend is anything like my friend, but I can understand how you would get that impression since this thread only focused on her negative traits that were relevant to this situation. I didn't mention anything about how she's always been there for me when I needed someone to vent to or a shoulder to cry on, or just to shoot the shit. She has never once judged me for anything, which is more than I can say for pretty much anyone I know. She's not self-centred at all. If anything, she's guilty of putting other people's needs before her own. Even though she's dirt poor, she never hesitates to share what she does have when I visit. She supported me this August when I was in turmoil about whether to do my Master's, and offered to let me stay with her if I needed to move back to Winnipeg, and even to take care of my cats while I found a place to live. Bottom line, I certainly do not feel used or taken advantage of by her.

I don't look at friendships as business transactions. It's not all about me, or what you can do for me, or whether you're doing as much for me as I'm doing for you. There's give and take. At that point in her life, she needed to take a little more because she was going through hard times. I've had rough times in my life where I've leaned on her a little more. It all comes out in the wash. Assuming it goes both ways, you don't walk out on your friends when they need you most. Now, if all they ever do is need you, that's different. You did the right thing for your situation, absolutely.

She's by no means wreaking havoc on my life. There was this one little blip where something was contemplated and decided against. That happened within a week of my initial post, way back in June... The rest has basically been discussion about her situation in general and my motivation for behaving the way I did.

Sure, she's not perfect. Who is? And how boring would that be? But really, this is the biggest conflict we've had in 14 years of friendship, and it was resolved in a week with no hard feelings from anyone. Not exactly what I consider a toxic relationship.

Someone asked me earlier why we're friends, and I had a wibbly wobbly answer. My husband asks me, why do I love him? Both remind me of something I read the other day: "If you can answer 'why' then it's not love, it's like."

Quote:
Originally Posted by happinesswins View Post
I feared that he was risking exactly this by entering into this arrangement, could be his "price of admission "! Your girlfriend entering into this arrangement could have her feelings hurt , her "price of admission "!
Did you actually watch the video? "Price of admission" refers to the irritating little things you're willing to put up with in a relationship, in exchange for being with someone you love. E.g. my husband never puts his wash cloths in the hamper. I used to harp on him about it, now I just throw them in the hamper. It's faster than waiting for him to do it, and less stressful for both of us. Putting my husband's dirty wash cloths in the hamper is a "price of admission" that I pay for being with him. No one's perfect, you have to take the bad with the good. Risking your marriage or having your heart broken is hardly a "price of admission."
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  #54  
Old 10-07-2012, 10:40 AM
happinesswins happinesswins is offline
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Emm - fair comment ,wasn't considering the effect the hurried writing would have on readers, too busy picking up after family .Had other priorities. S.cat - I wasn't trying to imply that my friends were any better than yours.I'm glad to hear that she's there for you when you need her too . I never meant that friendships should be like a business transaction, where everyone gets equal benefit. Not even families work that way . Much of the time its one way or the other , but you're happy to make them happy. Of course you should never walk out on a friend in need , you can't call yourself one if you do . A friend doesn't have to be perfect , they just need to be good for your soul.If they make you happy , that's all that matters. My use of "price of admission " was not the same as yours. I used it in terms of - the price you must be prepared to pay if you take a risk , or gamble so to speak. Risking your marriage or having your heart broken are never to be taken lightly , that's why I made a comment on this thread in the first place. I wouldn't use the term "price of admission " to describe picking up after my husband and kids. Its just life . We all have shit things to do along the way'. Some more shit than others. Better to pick your battles , so we all exist happily in each others company, none of us are perfect.This is not something i see as a price to pay , it just is what it is. Wish you all the very best on your adventures, good luck to you all.
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  #55  
Old 10-07-2012, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happinesswins View Post
Emm - fair comment ,wasn't considering the effect the hurried writing would have on readers, too busy picking up after family .Had other priorities.
I notice when I quote your messages, there are lots of "spaces" but they don't appear in the posts... Just so you know, this forum doesn't post your message when you hit "Enter" so that's the easiest way to put white space in your messages.

Quote:
S.cat - I wasn't trying to imply that my friends were any better than yours.
I quoted idealist's message about her own friend and then put my response about my friendship directly beneath the quote. That means I was responding to her quote, and it had nothing to do with you.

Quote:
My use of "price of admission " was not the same as yours. I used it in terms of - the price you must be prepared to pay if you take a risk , or gamble so to speak.
I wouldn't use the term "price of admission " to describe picking up after my husband and kids. Its just life . We all have shit things to do along the way'. Some more shit than others. Better to pick your battles , so we all exist happily in each others company, none of us are perfect.This is not something i see as a price to pay , it just is what it is.
As far as you calling it "my use of 'price of admission'"... it doesn't work that way. In this thread, I used the term first, and defined it by way of linking to the video where I got the term. You ignored my link and chose to make up your own definition, creating confusion because we were using two definitions for the same term. Communication only works if people agree to use the same definitions for terms. I did a quick search, and previous uses of "price of admission" on this forum are consistent with my own.

Perhaps for you, picking up after people isn't a big deal, so it's not one of YOUR prices of admission. When my husband helps put away dishes, he never puts anything where it goes. Ironically, I find that endearing, and rearranging them isn't a price of admission for me.

But I'm sure your husband does at least one thing that drives you nuts, but you put up with it because you love him. Scratching his balls in public? Chewing with his mouth open? Taking all the covers in bed? Using too much salt in his cooking?

You say you "pick your battles" which implies there are potential battles that you choose not to fight. By definition, choosing not to fight those battles IS paying the price of admission. That's exactly what the term means.



In an earlier post, you said you found this site by accident. I noticed that you joined on the same day you first responded to this thread, and that this is the only thread you've participated in. I'm curious, what were you searching that brought you to this thread in particular?
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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  #56  
Old 10-07-2012, 10:41 PM
happinesswins happinesswins is offline
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S.Cat-Thanks for your "enter" tip.
I understood your use of "price of admission ",it's a common term and i was simply using it the way i have seen it used. Sorry for any confusion.
Yes, my husband and kids do have annoying habits, but i love them all the same and it's faster to do things yourself in the end (Rather than argue .Saving my nagging for the important issues = picking my battles ). My husband doesn't put the dishes where i put them either, but i am happy that he helps me with the workload.He doesn't put the pegs on the washing the way i like them either!
How did i find your thread?........Just finished reading Sex At Dawn, by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jetha...They show how far from human nature monogamy really is.This book is brilliant. I would suggest everyone read it .(you may have already ) The book contains many other references and while researching some of them i ended up on this site. Your story caught my attention and here i am .
Have been reading many other books on relationships and sex and am interested in real people and their stories. I have found the discussions here interesting and have enjoyed talking to you.
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  #57  
Old 10-09-2012, 02:45 PM
Stevenjaguar Stevenjaguar is offline
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@ SchroedingersCat: While it’s good that you have a forum to explore your feelings and It’s a bit of a puzzle to me why you’re seeking advice on a polyamory site.

You’re not polyamorous and it’s clear that you husband’s not either, nor are you down for it if he were.

By your statements you’re suspicious of his lying to you by omission and you’re suspicious of her lying to you to “tell you what you want to hear”.

In the beginning implied that you’re okay with his having your friend for a FWB as long as she doesn’t love him, yet you’re afraid of what will happen if they have sex.

How this is different from simple jealousy in a monogamous marriage?

While you’re deserving of all the respect, generosity and empathy that any human being is, and it’s good that you can talk to people on here about your feelings it may be more effective to deal with your feelings another way.

Now I expect you have may some angry things to say to me, so let fly.
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  #58  
Old 10-09-2012, 04:52 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Being poly does not mean one has to accept any and all sexual connections wanted by a partner. Not does it mean that feelings are not felt. SC was uncomfortable because of the specific circumstances of her husband's possible sexual connection with a dear friend - a friend going through a bad divorce, fleeing an abusive partner. I would have very similar concerns in her shoes. That has diddly squat to do with being poly. Also she has acknowledged that her husband is more poly sexual than polyamorous.

You don't have to accept SC's version of poly for yourself. But it is still poly.
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  #59  
Old 10-09-2012, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevenjaguar View Post
@ SchroedingersCat: While itís good that you have a forum to explore your feelings and Itís a bit of a puzzle to me why youíre seeking advice on a polyamory site.
Here's a typical example from our relationship:

Last year, we met a friend-of-a-friend who was on the rebound. After a night at the bar, and knowing we are non-monogamous, she asked me if I would mind her inviting my husband to come home with her. I encouraged it. I knew it would be exciting for my husband. It didn't even occur to me to worry that she could develop feelings for him. She was just a casual acquaintance and her heart was not really my concern.

The reason I needed advice is that this whole situation was completely unlike anything I'd experienced before. It's related to this forum because of my friend's potential to develop feelings for my husband. Anyone in a swinger forum would say "There could be feelings?! Don't do it!" People in a polyamory forum are better equipped to look at it from both sides and provide rational, non-judgmental advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevenjaguar View Post
Youíre not polyamorous and itís clear that you husbandís not either, nor are you down for it if he were.
I would be overjoyed if my husband were such an emotional person that he was capable of loving more than one person. But he himself has said he is not. In fact, every single time we have to work through a difficult spot in our marriage, he questions whether he's even strong enough for this one romantic relationship. So I work with what I've got.

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Originally Posted by Stevenjaguar View Post
By your statements youíre suspicious of his lying to you by omission and youíre suspicious of her lying to you to ďtell you what you want to hearĒ.
Who wouldn't be? I'm afraid I don't understand the point you're trying to make, please clarify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevenjaguar View Post
In the beginning implied that youíre okay with his having your friend for a FWB as long as she doesnít love him, yet youíre afraid of what will happen if they have sex.

How this is different from simple jealousy in a monogamous marriage?
Monogamous jealousy usually stems from a fear of losing your partner. There's nothing simple about it. My fear was of my best friend getting even more heartbroken than she already was. That has nothing to do with jealousy or monogamy, and everything to do with not wanting to see loved ones get hurt, especially if you can help it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevenjaguar View Post
While youíre deserving of all the respect, generosity and empathy that any human being is, and itís good that you can talk to people on here about your feelings it may be more effective to deal with your feelings another way.

Now I expect you have may some angry things to say to me, so let fly.
You amuse me. I don't allow my emotions to be governed by strangers on the internet. However, your deliberate attempt to incite such a reaction comes dangerously close to violating this forum's guidelines regarding trolling. I understand that I may have offended you with my response to your terrible advice in another thread, and I apologized for my brash words there. However this is not a constructive way to deal with your own anger.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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  #60  
Old 10-09-2012, 08:39 PM
Stevenjaguar Stevenjaguar is offline
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I apologize, too. I understand better now.
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