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  #11  
Old 09-27-2012, 06:39 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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It's not easy to be called into account.

Either you calling YOURSELF into account.

You calling your partner and metamour into account.

Or asking help for others to help you to see the forest for the trees and help you to see from another perspective.

Glad to know you talked and they decided what they did. I am sure this helps you build trust with the metamour new person and reaffirm trust in your wife, and you are reassured in your own self too. Cupcakes for all!

So what could have gone real bad from the get go is on better footing. Not out of the woods yet, because the other husband has to be brought into the conversation. But is this a much better place from which to do that, right?

Shine on. Gotta love hot ethics.

GG
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  #12  
Old 10-03-2012, 02:07 PM
BraverySeeker BraverySeeker is offline
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UPDATE: As of two nights ago, the other husband knows. Apparently he and his wife first talked at length about what needed to happen for their relationship to improve, and since that conversation was going so well, she wasted no time breaking the news that she had feelings for someone else. When she said her feelings were for another woman, surprisingly he guessed my wife.

What he said and did next were hopeful, suggesting he can understand and accept nonmonogamy in their marriage. But it's early, and he only just got on the emotional rollercoaster I've been riding for a couple weeks now.

I'm relieved that she told him for several reasons. It demonstrates the seriousness of her feelings for my wife, which are mutual; that she respected me by abiding by my concerns that if he wasn't told and they cheated on him that that would make it difficult for me to trust them; and the correctness of her intuition that, if given the chance, her husband could handle the truth and come to the same conclusions I have reached.

In light of his nascent acceptance, I feel weirdly "not special" anymore. Until Monday night, I was the only one who knew of the budding affair between our two wives. I embraced that secret knowledge and tried to educate myself and them about what it may mean for us. I realized quickly that "us" had to include him; he needed to know what I knew, and sooner than not.

Now that he does know, and he is responding in an enlightened and accepting manner, I feel odd. I know it would have been a huge mistake for our wives' love for eachother (I don't know that he's yet fully aware that they've actually fallen in love) to go to the next level without knowing beforehand. I suspect all the relationships involved have been saved, or at least been given a fair chance to be saved and to grow.

A burden has been lifted from my shoulders, no doubt about it. But I feel much less worthy of my wife's previous characterization of me as an "astoundingly understanding" partner. If he reacts to the news like I did, then he's just as astounding. Maybe this is just what husbands do when confronted with their wives love for others.

I think not. More likely, he and I just know our partners well enough to recognize their capacity to love us and someone else at the same time. I hope he can feel secure in that new reality. It's getting easier for me to accept, anyway.

He and I haven't talked yet. I'm not eager for it, but I'm not afraid of that inevitable first conversation. I've let his wife know that if he has questions for me, I'm willing to answer them. But until now, I assumed I would be there to support him in his struggle to accept the situation. Now I'm thinking maybe I could use his insight and backing.

This is an amazing trip we're all on. As much as I've been unable to predict how it would unfold, I sincerely believe we've taken the right steps so far.

Last edited by BraverySeeker; 10-03-2012 at 02:25 PM.
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  #13  
Old 10-03-2012, 02:35 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Yay! Sounds SO much better! That's great.

Quote:
In light of his nascent acceptance, I feel weirdly "not special" anymore.
If you feel "flat" don't forget "hormone dump" consequences. Whether in general sex awesome, in kinky town, in tense business negotiations, in war even -- that hormonal "flight or fight" dump thing? (And you have been in tension rollercoaster recently -- do note that!)

When the dump happens you need a few days to clear the hormone soup from the body. It can feel like withdrawal. Clearing the adrenalin and all that other stuff out. It's exciting to be on a new adventure with your wife. Excitement as "stimulating things" is both good and bad. Stimulus is stimulus. Keeping you up on your toes. When the stimulus stops and you can catch a break? You can float on down or just clunk THUD!

It isn't that you are not special -- ANYONE who thinks they can hack polyamory is "special" in the sense that they want to walk a "different" path than the usual. And anyone who can do it WELL is exemplary!

Polyamory is edge play of the heart, dude.

It's the horrible-wonderful-horrible-wonderful thing.

The am I crazy? I must be crazy. I am NOT crazy. But I am crazy! thing.

Your willingness to extend a hand of friendship to your co-metamour is a nice gesture. Whether or not he wants to take you up on that is on him, but it is good of you to offer.

Hang in there, stick to your hot ethics as your guiding light. They are serving you well so far. Shine on!

Namaste,
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-03-2012 at 02:43 PM.
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  #14  
Old 10-03-2012, 02:48 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraverySeeker View Post
In light of his nascent acceptance, I feel weirdly "not special" anymore....

But I feel much less worthy of my wife's previous characterization of me as an "astoundingly understanding" partner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
Polyamory is edge play of the heart, dude.l
@BraverySeeker,

First good on you and your wife and her girlfriend and husband. It is so nice to see people pull back from the precipice. (Often folks post who have already leaped off that nice mountain.)

Also, dude, don't worry. You will soon have another situation in which to demonstrate your awesome understandingness. There is nothing like poly relationships to give one opportunites for growth.

@GG, Totally stealing that!
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  #15  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:53 PM
BraverySeeker BraverySeeker is offline
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I'm saddened to report that all is not well for the other husband and wife. Their marriage appears to be cratering, less because she recently fell in love with my wife and more because she has, for quite some time, been falling out of love with him. He is conflating the two realities, as would I in his position, but seems increasingly unable respond with much other than anger. But she hasn't given him much to hope for either, as she apparently has voiced her preference that they go their separate ways after nearly 20 years of marriage.

At one point he asked her to stop her affair (I call it an "affair" although it has not yet progressed from the emotional to the physical, but it has been the former for the past couple months now) until they can repair their marriage. She has been very firm that she is not willing to give up her relationship with my wife, although they are willing to keep it in its present holding pattern.

He has not sought help from anyone and has even rebuffed her suggestion that they see a marriage counselor. Even if they did, I'm doubtful he'll be able to a) change to the extent she needs him to, b) be able to accept that she can and does love another, and c) win back her affection. I really don't know him, I admit, but I still don't think he can do all that in short order.

Meanwhile, my wife and I just celebrated the 28th anniversary of our first kiss - when we were HS freshman in the back seat of a friend's car, parked in the school lot during a football game. Amazingly, we are kissing (and then some) more passionately, communicating more easily and regularly and connecting more profoundly than we ever have. And this has been possible largely because she's been able to share with me knowledge of her love for her friend. We've done the work and we're still doing it, and we don't fear losing each other as a consequence.

I really wish the other husband could be experiencing with his spouse what I am with my mine. Instead, he looks likely to lose her. This saddens me.

I don't think my choice to accept rather than prohibit the affair (a power I never had) would have prevented the dissolution of that other marriage. They were on a downward slide long before our wives met over a year ago. He may disagree and blame me nevertheless. I don't know if he does. But right now I'm not in a position to correct him and he's not in a place to hear me out or benefit at all from hearing my perspective. If he were to reach out to me, I wouldn't refuse to talk to him honestly. But presently we're on such radically different planes of understanding love. Yet we are undeniably linked by the love our wives feel for one another. It's ironic and tragic.

Apparently his outlook has changed almost hourly over the past few days, so maybe I shouldn't write him off. But as long as he refuses to accept outside help, I can't imagine him making the right choices for him and them.

Fight or flight: Fight for her and them to stay together or take flight from it all. The not being able to predict what he'll do has produced some scary moments, I'm told. I just hope he doesn't do something rash, something everyone will regret.

Last edited by BraverySeeker; 10-05-2012 at 08:03 PM.
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  #16  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:16 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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You might want to reach out to him as another guy and someone who has been successful in a long term marriage and just say, "Dude if you want to at least try and salvage your marriage, get your ass to a counselor". I say this as someone who early on was reluctant for years to seek counseling until our marriage was inches from divorce. Fixing a crumbling marriage will NOT be fixed overnight or even in a few months, it takes YEARS to rebuild. For some reason, this surprises people.
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  #17  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:17 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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She tells him the night of 10/01. It is only 10/5. It is Big News, and he could be emotionally flooded. Guys really do seem to shut down when flooded.

I would not make a rash decision about ending a marriage in a mere 4 days.

She is asking him to consider a huge paradigm shift in his belief system. And where you draw the line in the sand at a physical intimacy, you do not know if he draws it at emotional intimacy. So he could be feeling betrayed at a level you are not if he thinks his wife has been cheating on him emotionally in an affair of the heart (if not yet the body.)

Dunno if there is anything here that will help:

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/do...documents.html

I think his request for her to chill on seeing your wife is ok if he puts a reasonable, MEASUREABLE time limit. (ex: a month of limiting it to email or phone and not in my face-ness please so I do not emotionally trigger and flood while processing with you.). Saying to end it with wife is NOT fixing whatever is wrong with the marriage or working on whatever issues he has in his personal growth. It's just removing the flashlight thing (rship with your wife) so he doesn't have to look inward at himself or his marriage. The broken is still there whether we shine a light on it or not.

I think her stating she's not giving up her relationship with your wife is valid if she wants to be in relationship with her. But if her relationship with your wife can't hack a month of time out while she sorts out her marriage? What? Your wife isn't worth the wait? Her husband of 20 years isn't worth the courtesy of 4 weeks after dropping a bomb like that? I think she could reframe it and quietly and firmly say "No, I am not willing to terminate my relationship with (Your Wife.) I *AM* willing to dial the volume on that down to email/phone friendship for (time limit?) while we sort our own marriage out first. I want to see a marriage counselor to help us. I want to try to be in relationship with you and navigate new change if you are willing top try. Are you willing to try?"

I think her request to see a counselor to help them navigate the month of intense talk reasonable. Sometimes a mediator is needed. Things were broken before your wife entered the picture. So... let's get on with fixing the broken that was already there.

A month time out to digest the news is not that long. And the only question he needs to find an answer to inside himself by the end of the month is

"Am I willing to work on myself and on my marriage with my wife to embrace this new change or not? Will I go to a counselor to start that process with my wife?"

Is not willing, and it is a total dealbreaker -- move toward amicable divorce then.

If willing to try - then the next baby step to see if he can learn the skills needed / embrace being a mono V arm in a "V" thing with his wife as the hinge.

I don't know if that helps you guys any. Hang in there. It may not be fun to feel but at least it is open, honest, and trying to be as clean as possible. That's still a Good Thing.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-05-2012 at 08:27 PM.
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  #18  
Old 10-05-2012, 09:15 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
She tells him the night of 10/01. It is only 10/5. It is Big News, and he could be emotionally flooded. Guys really do seem to shut down when flooded.

I would not make a rash decision about ending a marriage in a mere 4 days.
It doesn't sound like she's making a rash decision. It sounds like she's been falling out of love with him for a long time, and has reached a point where she feels the marriage cannot be salvaged. She was "on the brink of calling it quits" before she ever told him about the romance.

I get where she's coming from. My husband works out of town and it's been getting really hard over the past year, as his work hours have been steadily increasing, while decreasing his time for me. It hasn't always been like that, and I've been telling him for months that if he doesn't change his work patterns, more like when we were first married, then it will wear down our marriage. We simply haven't have enough time to deal with the day to day business of a marriage, let alone the emotional requirements. This weekend, we hit an apex. We finally got through to each other about what the other has been neglecting. Already this week, there have been tremendous changes and things are looking up.

The difference is, we caught it before it was too late. We hadn't yet reached a point where we'd started falling out of love. I could just see that IF we kept down that road, THEN we would start falling out of love, to cope with the pain of feeling neglected.

I've had other relationships in the past where I was falling out of love and spending a lot of time thinking about breaking up. For me, it was never possible to go back after that. Once you get it in your head that your relationship is over, it's nearly impossible to change your mind. At least, that's how it is for me, and I'm guessing that's how it is for this other woman.

Then you add in the fact that he's not willing to seek counselling, and I don't blame her for feeling like he's not even trying to save the marriage.

PS I really like that article about emotional flooding. That's exactly what happens to my husband, and it will be useful for me to keep that in mind.
__________________
Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 10-05-2012 at 09:20 PM.
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  #19  
Old 10-05-2012, 09:50 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
It doesn't sound like she's making a rash decision
Yes, she's known about her feelings a long time.

But I meant him. He just learned of her feelings in a way he cannot deny or ignore. So him making a rash decision about his marriage while he could be emotionally flooded would not be wise if he ultimately wishes to engage with her and actually do repairs.

Acting out at her while flooded would only make it worse -- the weakened marriage takes even more hit points!

Better for him to take a time out to calm down first. I do not find him asking for some kind of a "time out" space unreasonable in that case. (Provided it has a time limit and doesn't get abused as a way to avoid the whole issue altogether. A "time out to calm down" and process this in a better frame of mind does not equal "shoosh it under the rug and never deal with it." )

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-05-2012 at 09:57 PM.
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  #20  
Old 10-06-2012, 03:44 AM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Fight or flight? .......not knowing the 20yr internals of their relationship and the effect this new relationship has had on their marriage that might be putting it a bit too simply.

Fight for what?
The argument might be fight for his marriage "back".....fight for his partner but that's not on the table. He's going to get some new dynamic ....a % of her time, focus and attention. Seeing their relationsip with in the past yr with new eyes an extrapolating that out....factoring nre, etc, etc ....it might look like a very, very up hill fight. He'd be fighting for an unknown quanity or worse be caught in some exercise in futility, and reluctant to be made a fool of.

And with all the damage they need to work through that might not be enough of a prize. Ripping this band aid off quickly might be good for everyone.

Are women happy they decided to hold off on the sex until he could be told?
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