A valid reason for open marriage?

[thinker]

Originally Posted by opalescent

Or perhaps the person you see was always there but not obvious until your relationship. You seem to be feeling some sort of guilt over her changes and it may simply be untrue and unnecessary.

yeah i had some sort of guilt over the years over her changes

Originally Posted by BoringGuy

I would like to extend my appreciation for Thinker's sensitivity toward this matter. Recently, there has been a fair number of topics started by people with newborn babies. It's been either the woman whose partner wants to open the relationship and/or pursue other relationships, or the other partner who wants the mother of their child to accept non-monogamy in some way. These cases tend to feature selfish stubbornness in the non-mother partner, and a great deal of distress and anguish in the partner who is the mother.

It is refreshing to see someone who wants to do this for the other person, who is willing to listen to other people's advice without getting defensive, and is willing to let it go if the other person is not into it.

there people in the forum who rush through things? That's disappointing. And yeah since it is a Polyamory forum i really think that people in here are well minded people who had experienced different levels of open marriages. So it is just a compulsory thing to listen to people who are more experience in that field nothing hard really for accepting your flaws and see through your mistakes (you just simply bash yourself, magnify the problem and pin-point the problem easy! thats my way of course)

[thinker]

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

You got the feedback, you are reviewing your position. You have come to find that maybe you could adjust a bit. You are allowed to change your mind after seeking information, input, etc.

You have come to new self awareness -- that you have a habit of rushing into things. And there's the sense of TIMING and TONE in communication to consider. Not just the message but HOW the message is delivered.

That's good to learn. Nothing horrible there.

I'm a bit concerned by the HIGH and LOW thing -- the "volume" is up and down a lot. I'm not sure if it is your writing style or what? But if this is you in general way of going and not just the writing style? Try to see if you can be more even keel in your dealings and how you handle your feelings.

GL!
Galagirl

Yeah my writing style in the forums are as good as some 12 yros. Thanks for your input in your previous post i will just postpone it for a while until when it was a suitable time to tell my wife about it.

[thinker]

Quite quite in the thread ........... i guess thats it for it

Thanks for all the help btw you guys rock!

[Dagferi]

You are a one lucky wife Dagferi with a loving husband who had done a-lot for you. I know how he feels if his wife love her lover as much as himself, he must be pretty stressed up now. But i guess it might be because of the playing field between you and your H are imbalance or he is just being cuckold. Why wasn't so easy to make your H to find someone else? If my wife agrees with this i might be in a similar situation like him but not for long, before i go to Ashley Madison to have a network of friends-with-benefits and ultimately dating (if i m lucky since i m not good at knowing girls). Because i might be quite jealous on something like why my wife is enjoying her self while i don't have as much? I believe that both partners when engaging in an arrangement like this both of them should be enjoying themselves instead of one sided which has failed the purpose of open marriage in the first place.

Sorry life has been a bit busy the last two days..

I do not know if I would call myself lucky.. His opening up the marriage came at a price. He did so in order to trade for BDSM participation from me. Despite the fact that it creeps me out.

Dating as a married man is really hard. Not many women are open to the idea. Ashley madison is full of professionals, cowgirls, and fakes. Heck my boyfriend was freaked out at first. We met through mutual circles and we clicked. He wanted me in his life so he gave it a go and it is working well.

-how long have you been engaging in an open marriage?

I have been in an open marriage a year and a half.

-how did your H proposed open marriage to you? (timing, situation and etc)

We had a huge discussion about relationships and he pointed out I was probably polyamorus. I flitted from boyfriend to boyfriend before my husband no one man was ever enough for me.

-is your M your first bf? or your ?th bf since open marriage

I have casually dated others since opening my marriage. I am an INTJ personality. I tend to end relationships that do not work for me very quickly. Most lasted a few weeks. M has been with me 6 months.

-how did you arrange your time between your H and your M since it requires massive amounts of time management

We work mostly around M's schedule. He works 12 hour shifts with rotating days off. He is off every other weekend. Spend 2 weekends a month with M. And also one of his days off a week for an additional overnight stay. I go over there after work.

-how will you plan your time if one of them (H or M) wants to go to overseas with you (since i m foreign born it IS compulsory to go to overseas and also other places at the same time with my wife which can be like 100/0 for the next 1.5 months)

None of us are the type to go overseas...lol.

-financial arrangements?

My daily fiances are separate from M's.

-distance between your house and M's house?

M lives 30 minutes from my home and an hour from my work. It is like 20 miles.

-how bout the kids and family will they get used to it? (since my family especially my relatives comes from traditional background of monogamy i m -afraid they will disown me if they ever know it)

I really don't care what my family thinks. They do not pay my bills. My closest family is 9 hours away. My kids are 18, 9, and 5 all boys. My oldest doesn't car. My two younger kids enjoy M so far. They think he walks on water. My middle son loves music. M is a guitarist. They have the same taste in music. My youngest is a car nut. M races and shows classic American cars.

-did you try to separate them between primary and secondary partner? ( it will be my early arrangement where me and my wife's relationship is above all else -even if we had emotions to our respective lovers.

No I treat my husband and M equally. I love them both deeply. M understands the kids come first. If my husband D told me M would have to go all hell would break loose.

-what are your rules of open marriage?

Really do not have any. My tubes are tied due to my last son almost killing me. My husband trusts me enough not to run our relationship into the ditch, and M the same.

[thinker]

Originally Posted by Dagferi

Sorry life has been a bit busy the last two days..

I do not know if I would call myself lucky.. His opening up the marriage came at a price. He did so in order to trade for BDSM participation from me. Despite the fact that it creeps me out.

That's the price of freedom Dagferi,me and my wife had engaged in some "soft" (my our standards) BDSM which involves with whips and stuff.... its alright so long its not really harming anybody and we had a system of safewords too.... (its not creepy nor weird) your H sounds like a submitter one in BDSM. (i m one too btw and we enjoy it!)

Originally Posted by Dagferi

Dating as a married man is really hard. Not many women are open to the idea. Ashley madison is full of professionals, cowgirls, and fakes. Heck my boyfriend was freaked out at first. We met through mutual circles and we clicked. He wanted me in his life so he gave it a go and it is working well.

Interesting well..... if its hard to date for a married man then i would just have a string of friends-with-benefits then... because i don't really mind if i either physical or emotional attraction to others. So long my wife is happy....

Originally Posted by Dagferi

-how long have you been engaging in an open marriage?

I have been in an open marriage a year and a half.

That is really short and seems to be successful too

Originally Posted by Dagferi

-how did your H proposed open marriage to you? (timing, situation and etc)

We had a huge discussion about relationships and he pointed out I was probably polygamous. I flitted from boyfriend to boyfriend before my husband no one man was ever enough for me.

you are a polygamous material! interestingly some divorces can actually be solved by this kind of arrangement if either side don't take monogamous so seriously

Originally Posted by Dagferi

-is your M your first bf? or your ?th bf since open marriage

I have casually dated others since opening my marriage. I am an INTJ personality. I tend to end relationships that do not work for me very quickly. Most lasted a few weeks. M has been with me 6 months.

what is "INTJ"? you have been with M for only 6 months!? amazing!

Originally Posted by Dagferi

-how did you arrange your time between your H and your M since it requires massive amounts of time management

We work mostly around M's schedule. He works 12 hour shifts with rotating days off. He is off every other weekend. Spend 2 weekends a month with M. And also one of his days off a week for an additional overnight stay. I go over there after work.

i saw your more "detailed" time arrangements from your previous post....... seems like H/M had like 60/40 of your time. How bout the kids if you are living with M then......

Originally Posted by Dagferi

-how will you plan your time if one of them (H or M) wants to go to overseas with you (since i m foreign born it IS compulsory to go to overseas and also other places at the same time with my wife which can be like 100/0 for the next 1.5 months)

None of us are the type to go overseas...lol.

Ok..... i really had to deal with this since my marriage is an interracial one and my relatives are living overseas which our family had to go once once year).... i better think about it myself then

Originally Posted by Dagferi

-financial arrangements?

My daily fiances are separate from M's.

I asked this because if all hell breaks lose then my wife's lover will try to grab my fortunes (a worse case scenario)

Originally Posted by Dagferi

-distance between your house and M's house?

M lives 30 minutes from my home and an hour from my work. It is like 20 miles.

thats sounds really far for me ahhh well if you find another love you had to get use to it anyway...

Originally Posted by Dagferi

-how bout the kids and family will they get used to it? (since my family especially my relatives comes from traditional background of monogamy i m -afraid they will disown me if they ever know it)

I really don't care what my family thinks. They do not pay my bills. My closest family is 9 hours away. My kids are 18, 9, and 5 all boys. My oldest doesn't care. My two younger kids enjoy M so far. They think he walks on water. My middle son loves music. M is a guitarist. They have the same taste in music. My youngest is a car nut. M races and shows classic American cars.

The reason that i really care what my family thinks is not because they are my family (and relatives my closest ones live 9 hours away by plane.) and my traditional background is because i (cough!) may inherit their money or property (cough! ) some time in the future due to blood relations, if they disowned me i will be doomed..... I may sound really greedy but in times like this (the GFC, Euro crisis) everyone wants to have some extra cash if all hell breaks loose (economically).

Seems M is really compatible with your son so proud of you knowing a man that you loved while your sons liked him as an awesome person.

Originally Posted by Dagferi

-did you try to separate them between primary and secondary partner? ( it will be my early arrangement where me and my wife's relationship is above all else -even if we had emotions to our respective lovers.

No I treat my husband and M equally. I love them both deeply. M understands the kids come first. If my husband D told me M would have to go all hell would break loose.

Well i was planning to have a primary and secondary partner arrangement (for jealously sake) for a year or 2 (haven't tell open marriage to my wife yet and this is negotiable too!) but putting the H and lovers are equals!? I may accept this arrangement if i know that will make my wife happy but i need time to digest this.....

Originally Posted by Dagferi

-what are your rules of open marriage?

Really do not have any. My tubes are tied due to my last son almost killing me. My husband trusts me enough not to ruin our relationship into the ditch, and M the same.

you must have started on shaky ground because i know that there "must" be some kind of rules (i believe in rules maybe because i worked for the government.... ) if open marriage is allowed and also one main rule is "respect" is that H and M would not ruin either side's relationship because i heard that some immature bastards just simply try to stir some trouble between the husband and the wife.

thanks for your answers i can take this into consideration and make some kind of a summary within a few months and propose it to my wife (in professional manner)

[Dagferi]

Originally Posted by thinker

That's the price of freedom Dagferi,me and my wife had engaged in some "soft" (my our standards) BDSM which involves with whips and stuff.... its alright so long its not really harming anybody and we had a system of safewords too.... (its not creepy nor weird) your H sounds like a submitter one in BDSM. (i m one too btw and we enjoy it!)

Well I do not enjoy BDSM. It makes me feel dirty, objectified, used. I was physically abused in a prior relationship and BDSM triggers panic in me. It is the one rough spot in my marriage. My husband has my permission to find a play partner at anytime. But he is mono and has made no move to do so. He said he would like ME to find him one well sorry I am not his pimp.

Interesting well..... if its hard to date for a married man then i would just have a string of friends-with-benefits then... because i don't really mind if i either physical or emotional attraction to others. So long my wife is happy....

Good luck finding a FWB. I have known many who tried but few can pull it off. Surf some relationship message boards and you will find many horror stories. Someone usually develops deeper feelings.

Yes my relationship with M has not been that long. But I am one of those people who either likes someone or I don't. I do not waste my time with those who do not hold my attention.

I knew my husband all of 10 months when we were married. Have been married 11 years. My father new my mother 4 months when they got married and they have been together 39 years. I am my father's daughter.

you are a polygamous material! interestingly some divorces can actually be solved by this kind of arrangement if either side don't take monogamous so seriously

I honestly love both my husband D and my boyfriend M deeply. I love my children all the same, so I have a hard time understanding why society has an issue if you love partners the same way.

what is "INTJ"? you have been with M for only 6 months!? amazing!

INTJ is Jung personality type. I am highly independent. I like independent men, able to stand up the sometimes formidable strength of my personality. I know quickly--usually on the first or second date--whether or not a relationship has any future, and I will not waste my time on courtships that seem to hold little promise. Even in more casual social situations, I can appear cold and may neglect to observe small rituals designed to put others at ease. I do not enjoy idle chitchat, and thus people receive a sense of hurry or disinterest from me which is not always intended. I am hard to read, and I am not very outgoing or emotionally expressive. I have a strong need for privacy, and they do not enjoy physical contact except with a chosen few. M and my husband being the only few. Don't get me wrong I am deeply emotional even romantic, and once I have decided a person is worthy, I am passionate and loyal through the good and bad.

i saw your more "detailed" time arrangements from your previous post....... seems like H/M had like 60/40 of your time. How bout the kids if you are living with M then......

Currently the kids go home at night when I am with M. But M is redoing bedrooms for the two youngest boys in his house. At first I was going to keep the kids out of M's and I relationship. But my husband actually feels better knowing that is something happened to him M would step up to the plate and they would be taken care of.

I asked this because if all hell breaks lose then my wife's lover will try to grab my fortunes (a worse case scenario)

How do you figure?

The reason that i really care what my family thinks is not because they are my family (and relatives my closest ones live 9 hours away by plane.) and my traditional background is because i (cough!) may inherit their money or property (cough! ) some time in the future due to blood relations, if they disowned me i will be doomed..... I may sound really greedy but in times like this (the GFC, Euro crisis) everyone wants to have some extra cash if all hell breaks loose (economically).

Why not be true to yourself and live a honest full life. Money doesn't make the man. I feel for you that you are saddled by greed and the expectations of others. You can't take it with you and definitely doesn't make you happy.

Well i was planning to have a primary and secondary partner arrangement (for jealously sake) for a year or 2 (haven't tell open marriage to my wife yet and this is negotiable too!) but putting the H and lovers are equals!? I may accept this arrangement if i know that will make my wife happy but i need time to digest this.....

My personal belief is that a third person has no right to force their will upon a relationship between two other people. You have to let the relationships between your wife and HER other partner(s) take on their own shape. You can't shove a square peg into a round hole. Neither M or my husband sticks their nose in the relationships I have with either one. My husbands needs have NOTHING to do with M.

My husband does not keep score... Oh he wants to but has learned that sometimes M my get more of my undivided attention but things come back around in his favor other weeks.

you must have started on shaky ground because i know that there "must" be some kind of rules (i believe in rules maybe because i worked for the government.... ) if open marriage is allowed and also one main rule is "respect" is that H and M would not ruin either side's relationship because i heard that some immature bastards just simply try to stir some trouble between the husband and the wife.

Actually no.. there has been no shaky ground. My husband has trusted me from the beginning to do what is right. Using the gov't as an example probably isn't the best. From what I have seen gov't always tends to run things into the ditch. May take a few hundred years but the greatest civilizations the world has seen have fallen at one time or another.

[BoringGuy]

Good luck finding a FWB. I have known many who tried but few can pull it off. Surf some relationship message boards and you will find many horror stories. Someone usually develops deeper feelings.

"Friends-with-benefits" works when the FRIEND part comes first and the "benefits" (sex) way later. In my experience, these relationships started off with NO sexual intentions or expectations from the very start. I am recalling one particular case where I was roommates with a couple, and they broke up while we still had a few months left on the lease. For a time, one member of the "ex-couple" was having sex with both of us, then when the other member moved out, the remaining one and I continued to have sex off and on for the next few years, while becoming involved with other people. We did not go about it by LOOKING for a "friend with benefits". The adding of sex to our friendship WAS a form of "deeper feelings", but we never became an "item" or "partners" or whatever you want to call it.

I think if someone goes out LOOKING for a "friend with benefits", usually meaning "regular sex partner without the day-to-day contact", they will find that they got themselves into something other than what they had in mind.

I'm sorry to hijack the thread based on such a small piece of the OP's topic.

[thinker]

Originally Posted by Dagferi

Well I do not enjoy BDSM. It makes me feel dirty, objectified, used. I was physically abused in a prior relationship and BDSM triggers panic in me. It is the one rough spot in my marriage. My husband has my permission to find a play partner at anytime. But he is mono and has made no move to do so. He said he would like ME to find him one well sorry I am not his pimp.

Sorry to hear that you used to be abused in your previous relationship (but the thing is "there is no such thing as free lunch" everything has a price tag on it). I know BDSM are for people who had really kinky ideas but generally its not for everyone......... Also it seems your husband is either mono or just being lazy to find a play partner Well nobody is perfect.

Originally Posted by Dagferi

Good luck finding a FWB. I have known many who tried but few can pull it off. Surf some relationship message boards and you will find many horror stories. Someone usually develops deeper feelings.

Yes my relationship with M has not been that long. But I am one of those people who either likes someone or I don't. I do not waste my time with those who do not hold my attention.

I knew my husband all of 10 months when we were married. Have been married 11 years. My father new my mother 4 months when they got married and they have been together 39 years. I am my father's daughter.

Thanks i will try to get a few friends first (and yeah i know getting FWB is hard for married man since most of them are cheaters) and yeah i kind of expected that having FWB can develop emotional attachment. But i will simply think of this scenario later since its too early to discuss this...

Interesting you actually know your H for ten months before getting married for eleven years!? You are pretty amazing yourself, i heard stories that people who married after knowing each other for less than a year tend to either cheat on each other or just out right divorce...... And your father is even more amazing four months!?

Originally Posted by Dagferi

I honestly love both my husband D and my boyfriend M deeply. I love my children all the same, so I have a hard time understanding why society has an issue if you love partners the same way.

Well you can just simply blame monogamous marriage really a deal breaker btw.

Originally Posted by Dagferi

INTJ is Jung personality type. I am highly independent. I like independent men, able to stand up the sometimes formidable strength of my personality. I know quickly--usually on the first or second date--whether or not a relationship has any future, and I will not waste my time on courtships that seem to hold little promise. Even in more casual social situations, I can appear cold and may neglect to observe small rituals designed to put others at ease. I do not enjoy idle chitchat, and thus people receive a sense of hurry or disinterest from me which is not always intended. I am hard to read, and I am not very outgoing or emotionally expressive. I have a strong need for privacy, and they do not enjoy physical contact except with a chosen few. M and my husband being the only few. Don't get me wrong I am deeply emotional even romantic, and once I have decided a person is worthy, I am passionate and loyal through the good and bad.

If you are not outgoing how can you flirt with bf after bf before you get married with your H. And also this is not really healthy for you socially.... Before i know my wife, i was a similar person like you, as time goes when i start to notice i start to lose more and more friends. I really had to changed myself as an out-going person through changing myself by meeting and knowing more people, and during one of my bar "nights" i know a girl who is my future wife. So really that has changed my life afterwards......

Originally Posted by Dagferi

Currently the kids go home at night when I am with M. But M is redoing bedrooms for the two youngest boys in his house. At first I was going to keep the kids out of M's and I relationship. But my husband actually feels better knowing that is something happened to him M would step up to the plate and they would be taken care of.

You are really lucky in choosing a lover who impressed your kids and your H your poly relationship seems like a perfect scenario.

Originally Posted by Dagferi

How do you figure?

I will explain later (next line)

Originally Posted by Dagferi

Why not be true to yourself and live a honest full life. Money doesn't make the man. I feel for you that you are saddled by greed and the expectations of others. You can't take it with you and definitely doesn't make you happy.

Ok i had to be defensive on this(yeah........ i know it sounds bad). Firstly expectations are mostly coming from my ethic origins where elders must be respected and so on..... (don't really need details for this one) really i can't changed as much until in not so far in the future.

Secondly about greed, true, money doesn't make the man but without it your chances of having a lower standard of living in the future will be higher. That is one of my traits, if i haven't scrape as much cash from property, stock and mutual funds (or mortgage back securities) before the whole crisis came, our family wouldn't have floated and survive the whole thing while my friends just sink under the water of recession (or even depression). And yeah my friends are not the greedy ones too

p.s sorry for my ranting.... people had been arguing about my "immoral" greed in the past and i really had to rant it out for now.... and yeah money doesn't make you happy only provides security for the future

Originally Posted by Dagferi

My personal belief is that a third person has no right to force their will upon a relationship between two other people. You have to let the relationships between your wife and HER other partner(s) take on their own shape. You can't shove a square peg into a round hole. Neither M or my husband sticks their nose in the relationships I have with either one. My husbands needs have NOTHING to do with M.

My husband does not keep score... Oh he wants to but has learned that sometimes M may get more of my undivided attention but things come back around in his favor other weeks.

I can see your logic, but i said this is because during the first few months i may (or will) be worried that if my wife dates others, will she leave me and the kids? (Yeah i may be insecure about this) Like what your H worried and keeps wondering if you would leave H with M. But i know one of the rules of this arrangement is respect to each other's relationship and don't stick their nose into it. Yeah, sometimes you had to choose priorities between H and M since if you give more attention to either side the other will be jealous (another time management skills)

Originally Posted by Dagferi

Actually no.. there has been no shaky ground. My husband has trusted me from the beginning to do what is right. Using the gov't as an example probably isn't the best. From what I have seen gov't always tends to run things into the ditch. May take a few hundred years but the greatest civilizations the world has seen have fallen at one time or another.

Also (not base on govt) i know that before starting anything you need to have rules different rules in place to ensure jealousy will be as low as possible. Also honesty is also an important rule as well as respect too. (done some research a few days before)

*And for being completely off topic i think the purpose of government is to act as a stabilizer to the economy, if the economy falls the government spends, if the economy recover the government saves. So its not really like that governments tends to run things into the ditch. (I worked for the Australian Federal Government within the Treasury department thus i m really pro-government in managing the economy *i m left-leaning too!)

Btw i heard the US will have an election within 40 days, who would you vote for? ( i prefer Obama since Romney will ruin the world economy if he ever gets elected)

Originally Posted by BoringGuy

"Friends-with-benefits" works when the FRIEND part comes first and the "benefits" (sex) way later. In my experience, these relationships started off with NO sexual intentions or expectations from the very start. I am recalling one particular case where I was roommates with a couple, and they broke up while we still had a few months left on the lease. For a time, one member of the "ex-couple" was having sex with both of us, then when the other member moved out, the remaining one and I continued to have sex off and on for the next few years, while becoming involved with other people. We did not go about it by LOOKING for a "friend with benefits". The adding of sex to our friendship WAS a form of "deeper feelings", but we never became an "item" or "partners" or whatever you want to call it.

I think if someone goes out LOOKING for a "friend with benefits", usually meaning "regular sex partner without the day-to-day contact", they will find that they got themselves into something other than what they had in mind.

I'm sorry to hijack the thread based on such a small piece of the OP's topic.

Yeah you are so right about this one but since i haven't told my wife about open marriage yet, i think the FWB thing is just wayyyyy too far in the future right now.

And BoringGuy thread hijacking is a good thing since it can keep the whole thread alive and well for a very long time (unless i ask the moderators to close it)

p.s you are lucky to have those kind of experience (also i must admit having FWB is one of my kinkier thought deep inside my head but lets see how its goes)

[AnnabelMore]

For the record, I've had successful FWB relationships that started with the benefits and moved to friendship. My friendship with Harry was like that. We met at a kinky play party and ended up having (oral) sex that very night. A week later we met at his place and hooked up, then went out for food afterwards. We've always had a very sexually charged friendship, but it also really did become a friendship -- he lent me some great books, I helped him move, we watched Game of Thrones together, etc. When I started dating Davis, I told Harry that we had to take a break, and he was disappointed, but we've remained friends for the last year even though the benefits have been out of the picture. In the meantime, Harry formalized his relationship with the girl he was sort of dating (it was all above board, she's poly and she knew about me), and she moved in with him. I went to their housewarming party over the summer, brought my roommates along, it was a great time.

Just wanted to point out that it can indeed work that way.

[thinker]

Originally Posted by AnnabelMore

For the record, I've had successful FWB relationships that started with the benefits and moved to friendship. My friendship with Harry was like that. We met at a kinky play party and ended up having (oral) sex that very night. A week later we met at his place and hooked up, then went out for food afterwards. We've always had a very sexually charged friendship, but it also really did become a friendship -- he lent me some great books, I helped him move, we watched Game of Thrones together, etc. When I started dating Davis, I told Harry that we had to take a break, and he was disappointed, but we've remained friends for the last year even though the benefits have been out of the picture. In the meantime, Harry formalized his relationship with the girl he was sort of dating (it was all above board, she's poly and she knew about me), and she moved in with him. I went to their housewarming party over the summer, brought my roommates along, it was a great time.

Just wanted to point out that it can indeed work that way.

Well i don't really think that "far" yet but thanks for your kinky experience really interesting read (wish i could be in this kind of situation before i get married.......)