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  #1  
Old 09-24-2012, 02:55 AM
Invi Invi is offline
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Unhappy Girls cancelling dates on SO, he's upset, not sure how to comfort him.

I am very much monogamous.
He is very much not.

I don't like it, I'll admit it. It makes me all kinds of uncomfortable. I'm working on it, though. I love him, so I try.
He's not looking for other long-term partners, though. Just casual, short-term dating.

Earlier this year, he was seeing a girl for several months, maybe once a week if that often. Didn't see her for a couple months after our son was born. A month or two ago, she said wanted something more serious, he didn't, they stopped seeing each other. The end.

Since then, he's had first dates cancelled on him by at least 2 girls, seen 1 girl 3-5 times and stopped seeing her (I think she stopped contact? No idea. I ask some questions about those kinds of things, but not many.), and a week or so ago he went on a first date with one girl who.. I guess was a little too abrasive for his tastes.

He was supposed to go out last night, and the girl flaked out on him. Would have been a first date.

So, we cuddled up and watched a movie, and I thought everything was okay.
A few hours later, I notice it's late, he has to work in the morning, but he's on the other side of the room, super quiet, still on his computer. I asked him if he was okay, what was wrong, if I had done something, etc, and got a bunch of "I don't know"s.
That's frustrating. I can't hold that against him, though, really. I have all kinds of problems communicating, and a lot of the time he doesn't get much more than that from me until I am well past ready to talk.
But. He's not usually like that. And he was like that.. for a few hours last night.

I just let him know I was available to talk, even if it was other girls that were upsetting him.

Right before he went to bed, I asked him if any of it was something I had done, and he said "It's okay."

"It's okay" was not helpful, and led me to believe I had done something wrong, but I have no idea what.
(So after typing all this out, I recall after he told me his date had been cancelled, that the girl had flaked out on him, that he had his hand in the area of his man-bits, and this made me uncomfortable, so I moved his hand because we were cuddling. I think this may have upset him; he said it was something like swatting the hand of a child. It was bothering me because I was still in "He's going out with another girl tonight" head-space and it was making me uncomfortable. I realize this was pretty rude, now. I thought I had apologized for it last night, but I'm starting to think I just thought about it repeatedly and never did. Maybe that's part of the problem.)

Today we were texting while he was on lunch, and he opened up a tiny bit.
Told me it was flaky girls, finances, and some other things getting him down.
He did ask me why I would think it's something I did, and why I'd be upset about it now, but that doesn't help me at all as sometimes he asks me why or whether I think he should be upset when he already is.

He got home from work, put away some groceries he'd picked up, got on the computer for a while, came over and gave me a hug and kiss, then went to bed.
Rather, went to lay down. He doesn't sleep for long this early in the evening.

He's still feeling down, and I don't know what to do aside from waiting for him to come to me. He said maybe he needs to go out for a bit, or go to the gym. I guess maybe he just needs some time alone. It worries me, though. The last time he was this down that I am aware of was because someone he knew died suddenly. He was back to normal in a day or two, but he at least talked to me about that.

So I'm at a loss.
He doesn't like me worrying about our finances, because it stresses me out hardcore when I do, so I let him deal with it all, and I just hand in the rent and remind him when my phone bill is due since he pays that since I stay home with the baby. So we don't really talk about that.

We don't usually talk about the girls he dates because the topic is not a pleasant one for me, though I've been more inquisitive the last couple days, thinking maybe it would help since I've been pretty down lately. It did help a bit. I haven't been as negative about everything as I was. The world seems less dark and threatening, and a little more neutral, though it takes a lot of self-assuring thoughts which are not my strong point; I'm very much a pessimist.
It's a wonder we get along, I think. He's usually such an optimist.

I don't know what "other things" are, so I have no idea if we've talked about them or not. Other things could be me, how down I've been the last couple of weeks, could be the state of the apartment, could be work, could be politics, could be a show getting cancelled, or a product discontinued, or missing family and friends, or any number of things I might have no clue about.

But I would think we could talk about those things?
So I'm wondering if the main thing is the girls.
I just don't know how to talk to him about that.
I just told him I would, that I would listen, no matter what the subject, because I hurt when he hurts, and I worry about him, and I just want to help. :-/

I'm all kinds of open to suggestions from people who have experience in this arena.
Bonus points if you're a mono who is also uncomfortable talking to your partner about your partner's other partners. ._.
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  #2  
Old 09-24-2012, 03:52 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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This is going to sound like I'm completely ignoring your question, but bear with me.

You mention he pays the phone bill because you stay home with the baby. Does that mean you never go out?

You mention you've been feeling down lately. Do you have friends? Maybe a Mum's group? A life outside your SO and child?

Now you're wondering, what does any of this have to do with why my SO feeling down?

A lot, potentially.

I know that when my husband is down in the dumps, I feel like it's all on me to cheer him up. Most of the time, the reason he's feeling down has nothing to do with me, so there's nothing I can do to cheer him up. In your case, if your SO feels like he has to keep your mood up, to be the optimist in the family, that could get burdensome.

So although it sounds unrelated, my suggestion for cheering up your SO is to join a Mum's group, make some friends, and find ways to cheer yourself up outside of your relationship with him. I'm not saying it's your fault, not by a long shot. But it's amazing how much your partner's mood can affect your own. So while it's not your fault that he's feeling down, maybe making an effort to be the optimist for a while can help pull him out.
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:05 AM
Invi Invi is offline
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I see the relevance. It could have a good deal to do with it.

We live about 1300 miles away from my friends and family (he doesn't have any here, either). I don't really go out. I don't have the money, nor the transportation. Also, all the mom groups seem to be "full."
I've never been good at meeting people and making friends, so that doesn't help either. I'm not sure I'd make many friends in a mom group, anyway. Somehow I imagine they're very child-oriented, and while my little boy is one of the most important things in my life, I don't want that to be the only interest I share with someone, you know?

I did go shopping with him last week, which I haven't done in months, so that helped improve my mood a bit, being out and about.

I do what I can to keep myself in a good mood given limited resources, but for a while there it felt all doom and gloom, and I'm sure that did take a toll on him.
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
In your case, if your SO feels like he has to keep your mood up, to be the optimist in the family, that could get burdensome.
Especially if he has no outlet to release some of the stress and frustration he feels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invi View Post
Told me it was flaky girls, finances, and some other things getting him down . . .

So I'm at a loss.
He doesn't like me worrying about our finances, because it stresses me out hardcore when I do, so I let him deal with it all . . . So we don't really talk about that.

We don't usually talk about the girls he dates because the topic is not a pleasant one for me, though I've been more inquisitive the last couple days, thinking maybe it would help since I've been pretty down lately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Invi View Post
We live about 1300 miles away from my friends and family (he doesn't have any here, either). I don't really go out.
So, you two are isolated without friends, family, and low on funds. You've really only got each other to talk to, and you feel that communication is not something you're good at. I bet you are much better at it than you think - you just don't like the subject matter. He needs to, but cannot, talk to you about the two main things that have him upset and depressed. If you want to help him through this (and it's obvious you do), and if you want to get better at communicating, well... you have to start talking. Stop thinking of yourself as so fragile and unable to handle the things you're afraid of. You can do this.

I understand you just had a baby, and are focused on being a mom, but it would behoove you both to sit down together and:
  1. Go over your finances with him. Know what's happening and where every penny is going so he doesn't have to shoulder all the responsibility, and the worrying and strategizing that goes on when money is tight. You, as his partner, should not be in the dark about such things anyway! You don't have to stress about it, just understand your situation so you can budget and plan things accordingly. What are you so scared and stressed about finding out? Whatever it is, you can handle it. If I were you, I'd approach it like a game you want to learn, and with lots of enthusiasm: Invi's Financial Education! Yay, what fun! [seriously!]

    I have a friend who was clueless about money until six months ago when she chose to learn as much as she could -- and now talking about it turns her on! She knows what she needs to feel secure, she has a grasp of concepts that seemed foreign to her before, and she is so confident and proud of herself. Start watching all those money shows on TV, get informed, don't let your husband feel so adrift, alone, and protective over you about something that is so important. Finances are the #1 reason couples get divorced - that's not to say that you're heading for that, but you really don't want to be clueless like Cher was when she and Sonny broke up. When my ex and I were together, he made most of the income, but I handled all the bill-paying and balancing the checkbook. He didn't want to know what was going on, but I would go to him and tell him every now and then whenever we had to watch our spending - and he would freak out! But if he had known all along, he wouldn't have freaked. Knowledge is power! A friend just helped me put a budget together, and I'm so broke it ain't funny, but now I have a plan and when I saw it in black and white, I felt relieved, because the unknown is what is most scary and overwhelming. It could be fun for you both to do together!

    In your other thread, you had mentioned that he doesn't help much with the housework or the baby, but if you could help with checkbook or be aware of the finances, maybe he will feel more partnerish and step up in those areas.

  2. Dig deep into your fears and insecurities, and discuss poly and all the possible ramifications it holds for you. Talk about how you feel regarding his desire for girlfriends, and how his dating affects you. You can't just go along with it, squeeze your eyes shut, wish it wasn't happening, and expect things to go smoothly. Avoidance does you no good. You agreed to poly just to make him happy, but your heart's not in it, and you don't really like it. Perhaps some renegotiating is in order. Maybe you need to put a hold on it til you both improve your communication skills and you work through some of the other issues you have going on. And then come back to it when you have a stronger, more equal partnership, and less unwillingness to face your fears.
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Last edited by nycindie; 05-01-2014 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:01 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
Today we were texting while he was on lunch, and he opened up a tiny bit.
Told me it was flaky girls, finances, and some other things getting him down.
He did ask me why I would think it's something I did, and why I'd be upset about it now, but that doesn't help me at all as sometimes he asks me why or whether I think he should be upset when he already is.
I do not hear you answering the questions.

1) Why do you think it is something you did?

2) Why are you upset about it now?

3) When he asks you for feedback/reality check -- why not tell him what you think?

You sound very passive in your style. Do you avoid conflict?
http://www.roadtowellbeing.ca/conflict.html


Quote:
He doesn't like me worrying about our finances, because it stresses me out when I do. So I let him deal with it all
I don't get that. Are you saying you would rather have him deal with finances so you don't have to deal with learning stress management so you can be a part of the conversation for your financial health as a couple?

Quote:
We don't usually talk about the girls he dates because the topic is not a pleasant one for me, though I've been more inquisitive the last couple days, thinking maybe it would help since I've been pretty down lately. It did help a bit.
That's good that you are trying. Perhaps something from practical polyamory would help you.


http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/do...documents.html

But if it boils down to this...

Quote:
I don't like it, I'll admit it. It makes me all kinds of uncomfortable. I'm working on it, though. I love him, so I try.
Then why are you together in an Open Marriage? Would you be better Closed?

What does working on it mean if you don't share in his inner life and talk about things? Share your OWN inner life?

Don't compromise yourself if you are not happy and thriving in the open relationship.

Between the isolation from family and friends, a young child in the home, and the shaky communication between you -- sort yourselves out first.

GalaGirl
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:29 AM
Invi Invi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
  1. Go over your finances with him. Know what's happening and where every penny is going so he doesn't have to shoulder all the responsibility, and the worrying and strategizing that goes on when money is tight. You, as his partner, should not be in the dark about such things anyway! You don't have to stress about it, just understand your situation so you can budget and plan things accordingly. What are you so scared and stressed about finding out? Whatever it is, you can handle it. If I were you, I'd approach it like a game you want to learn, and with lots of enthusiasm: Invi's Financial Education! Yay, what fun! [seriously!]

  2. Dig deep into your fears and insecurities, and discuss poly and all the possible ramifications it holds for you. Talk about how you feel regarding his desire for girlfriends, and how his dating affects you. You can't just go along with it, squeeze your eyes shut, wish it wasn't happening, and expect things to go smoothly. Avoidance does you no good. You agreed to poly just to make him happy, but your heart's not in it, and you don't really like it. Perhaps some renegotiating is in order. Maybe you need to put a hold on it til you both improve your communication skills and you work through some of the other issues you have going on. And then come back to it when you have a stronger, more equal partnership, and less unwillingness to face your fears.
On finances, me not being involved is his choice.
I have no fear of dealing with the finances myself. I can manage money. I just get anxious when things are tight, regardless of which one of us is doing the budgeting.
He occasionally mentions something when he's actively working on the budget, but that's about it. He knows I would listen if he wanted to talk about it.




For the record, we're not married. Just want to put that out there.

A lot of my fears are hard for me to articulate, and the ones I manage to get out into words are about things that could happen, but not things he's actually looking for.
I don't really think we can negotiate much further.
He goes out once or twice a week, if that. Less so recently, cancellations and such. We have one date night a week to ourselves with no communicating with other girls.
I suggested closing for a few months to work on us, but he was not particularly receptive to the idea. He said he'd consider it, and it hasn't been talked about since. That was on the 9th, I think.

I'm trying to face things, but it feels like I have to face everything at once, and I just can't bring myself to do that. Right now I'm working on keeping myself occupied while he is out, and not reacting negatively when he is talking to girls when he's at home. The latter is proving more difficult overall, unless I start to think about what they may be doing when he's out. Then it's harder to get back to a neutral place.
I understand he views sex differently depending on who is is having sex with at the time (vs overall), but it's difficult for me to see it that way.
For me, sex is sex when it's casual and you're not in a relationship. No big deal. When in a relationship, it's special, and helps with bonding.
I can not have both of these at once without the former threatening the latter, in my head.
He can.

I suppose that's a case of cognitive dissonance on my part.
I know I have a lot of growing to do.
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:30 AM
Invi Invi is offline
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Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
I do not hear you answering the questions.

1) Why do you think it is something you did?

2) Why are you upset about it now?

3) When he asks you for feedback/reality check -- why not tell him what you think?

You sound very passive in your style. Do you avoid conflict?
http://www.roadtowellbeing.ca/conflict.html




I don't get that. Are you saying you would rather have him deal with finances so you don't have to deal with learning stress management so you can be a part of the conversation for your financial health as a couple?



That's good that you are trying. Perhaps something from practical polyamory would help you.


http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/do...documents.html

But if it boils down to this...



Then why are you together in an Open Marriage? Would you be better Closed?

What does working on it mean if you don't share in his inner life and talk about things? Share your OWN inner life?

Don't compromise yourself if you are not happy and thriving in the open relationship.

Between the isolation from family and friends, a young child in the home, and the shaky communication between you -- sort yourselves out first.

GalaGirl
I think it is something I did because when I asked him if it was, he said he didn't know. When asked again later, he gave a non-answer of "It's okay."
I am upset because I don't know exactly what I did, or if it even is something I did. I'm upset because he's upset and I don't know what to do to help him feel better. I told him those things.

I am passive in a lot of ways. Overall, I'm a fairly submissive person. I do tend to try to avoid conflict, especially if I am already upset.
Thank you for the link, I'll look through it.

I went over the finances thing for NYCIndie. I'm working on stress management on my own. It's helping me to deal with other things.
It's not that I'd rather him deal with finances, it's that he is the one working for the money, he is the one doing the budgeting, and he generally will tell me if there is something I need to know about it. If I was working, I'd gladly do these things myself.

I'll look through that link as well.

I am in this relationship because I love him. Because we share a lot of similar goals, political interests, parenting philosophies. Because it wasn't open from the start, and I told him I would try because logically, it makes sense. Logically, I couldn't tell you why I should have a problem with it. Emotionally, it just doesn't seem to work that way.

Working on it means getting to the point where none of this strikes me as negative. Getting to the point where it is at least neutral, where he can share these things with me and I don't become upset.

I'm dealing with some compromise because I think it's possible to become comfortable with it in the long run, it just may take a long time. I don't know how many posts I've seen here with a relationship starting closed, even with one partner staying mono when it opens, and it taking years for that partner to adjust. I don't really like the idea of it taking years, but I am at least willing to try.

I told him I'd like to close for a while to work on us. We haven't brought the subject back up.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:36 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
I think it is something I did because when I asked him if it was, he said he didn't know. When asked again later, he gave a non-answer of "It's okay." I am upset because I don't know exactly what I did, or if it even is something I did. I'm upset because he's upset and I don't know what to do to help him feel better. I told him those things.
It's not so much what you did. But what he is doing. I'd be upset because by not being responsive he'd be shutting me out of his inner life and denying me emotional intimacy.

Quote:
It's not that I'd rather him deal with finances, it's that he is the one working for the money, he is the one doing the budgeting, and he generally will tell me if there is something I need to know about it. If I was working, I'd gladly do these things myself.
So you are his dependent. And not even legally protected as the legal wife. He makes all the money and controls all the money and denies you financial knowledge of your couple finances. No financial intimacy?

What stops him from going bananas one day and kicking you and kid out leaving you both homeless and penniless?

Just cuz?

Quote:
I am in this relationship because I love him. Because we share a lot of similar goals, political interests, parenting philosophies. Because it wasn't open from the start, and I told him I would try because logically, it makes sense. Logically, I couldn't tell you why I should have a problem with it. Emotionally, it just doesn't seem to work that way.
If you are having a problem with it, you are having a problem with it. One part of the couple is not happy. Ergo, this whole couple is not happy with it.

What is logical about plunging on without both people on the same page?

Quote:
Working on it means getting to the point where none of this strikes me as negative. Getting to the point where it is at least neutral, where he can share these things with me and I don't become upset.
That is not something you can control. Emotion is emotion. You feel whatever you feel when you feel it. It just bubbles up.

I was asking about concrete DOINGS. Not FEELINGS.


What BEHAVIOR does he ALREADY DO to help you feel secure, respected and considered in this couplehood?

  • You have a date night.
  • he could agree to Close to work with FOCUS on your relationship (rather than ignoring request)
  • limit calls to other women when in your presence? Agree to keep it to what? Certain time of day? Not in the same room as you? Not during dinner? Not before bed time with you? (Where is your limit on that? Do you even have one?)
  • what else? What BEHAVIOR do you need from him that he could do to help you feel secure?

What could he do MORE of?
  • share his inner life more with you rather than give you one word answers like "I dunno"
  • If not given the chance to practice, exactly how are you supposed to grow strong in hearing about his inner life and developing confidence, compersion, and so on? By magic?
  • share financial knowledge?
  • do his part of the house chores?
  • do his part of the parenting?
  • help you with transportion problem (share car if you own one? Get bus pass? Can you not drive him to work and then have the car for errands the rest of the day?)
  • what else? What BEHAVIOR could he do more of?

What BEHAVIOUR could he do less of?
  • List the stuff.

What BEHAVIOR do you ALREADY DO to help you feel secure, respected, and considered in this couplehood? How do you consider him in the couple hood?
  • You have started participating here to get feedback from the outside looking in for reality checks
  • List the other stuff.


What BEHAVIOR could you do MORE of to help you feel secure, respected, and considered in this couplehood?
  • take more interest in the finances?
  • could read more poly resources/communication resources/healthy rship resources
  • what else? List it.

What BEHAVIOR could you do less of?
  • not be as passive. Be more assertive?
  • what else? List it.

Things like that. Actual things to DO. Make your lists.

You will feel whatever you feel. But DOING things?

You can check off what he is doing/not doing
  • to meet his own wants, needs, limits
  • to meet your wants, needs, limits

You can check off what you are/are not doing
  • to meet your own wants, needs, limits
  • to meet his wants, needs, limits

Then whenever you feel blah you can pull out your checklists and reassure yourself that YES, he is doing all he can that you asked for to help meet your wants, needs, and limits. You are doing all you can. With your BEHAVIORS to each other. Then you can learn to feel better because the behavior shows your reality. It's not clouded by moods/feelings.

Or if he isn't or you are not doing your behaviours you agreed to do for each other, you can hold the right party accountable.

Quote:
I'm dealing with some compromise because I think it's possible to become comfortable with it in the long run, it just may take a long time. I don't know how many posts I've seen here with a relationship starting closed, even with one partner staying mono when it opens, and it taking years for that partner to adjust. I don't really like the idea of it taking years, but I am at least willing to try.
Cruise through some of these:

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/do...documents.html

See if any of that helps you. Esp the opening a monogamous relationship and "safe enough" with the communication and boundaries.

I worry you are too passive and getting run over.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-25-2012 at 06:15 AM.
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  #9  
Old 09-25-2012, 04:28 AM
Invi Invi is offline
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I should probably wait to reply as we're not doing so hot right now.
The first poster was right. It's me. It's me being down a lot and it brings him down and now I guess it's too much.
Sometimes it feels like he thinks I can just flip a switch and be happy with the way things are.

I have told him I didn't really have time to adjust to this before it started, and he says that I have been telling him that for months. I'm sorry? Doesn't make it less true.

I asked him if he wanted me to leave because it seems like I'm just not progressing fast enough for him and what I got was something along the lines of, "it seems like you're always upset with me and I can't be around all that negativity," only more wordy and less blunt.

I'll come back and address your post later, Galagirl. All I'm in a right mind to answer to right now is he always takes his phone calls outside to his car. They're very infrequent, and not a big issue with me except when they run into being hours long.

Tomorrow was supposed to be our date night. I'm getting the feeling I may be spending tomorrow on the phone with my mother making moving plans.

He's not going to want to Close. His freedom to do whatever, whenever is more important to him than any one person, I think, and if he feels like I am asking him to do things that restrict that freedom, I don't think I have a place here.
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:03 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Sigh. I'm very sorry you are going through this.

You state several times you are willing to try. If you aren't trying to foot drag but are lacking in support/education/nurture to help you transition well from a Closed thing to an Open thing on top of new motherhood? And as the poly person he's like "Just lump it on your own. And don't be sad at me because I cannot deal with negativity" -- that's just not right.

The kid is not even a year old right? Could you as the mother have post partum depression? You def. are isolated. And you are struggling with Opening on top of new motherhood.

Is this REALLY the best time to be Opening anyway? How can he tend to other partners when he doesn't tend the one he already has well?

Something is just not right there.

Quote:
His freedom to do whatever, whenever is more important to him than any one person, I think, and if he feels like I am asking him to do things that restrict that freedom, I don't think I have a place here.
Perhaps you are right.

Best to call your mom and get yourself out of there and move toward healing space for you. You are not comfortable with being Open, and you certainly are not going to get better at it with a partner who treats you with such little concern.

Hang in there.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-25-2012 at 06:17 AM.
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