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  #81  
Old 09-21-2012, 05:56 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Originally Posted by SkylerSquirrel View Post
I have a related question. What do you call a person who identifies as androgynous, but is only attracted to one gender?
When I was young, I had trouble with the concept of heterosexuality and homosexuality. I found them extremely complicated and could never remember which I was. To determine one or the other, you need A) your gender or sex, B) the gender or sex of the people you're attracted to and C) to compare them to check if they're the same or opposites.
Way too many steps for me! I also didn't see how a gay female and a gay male could be put in the same category, when they didn't share a gender and didn't like the same people, or each other. Basically it seemed to me they had nothing in common!

So I used androphile to describe myself a lot. Androsexual would have worked too, though. Gynophile or gynosexual for someone attracted to females. In everyday contexts, I find easier to just say "I like guys".

This way you don't have the paradox of saying you're straight (implying you're female, when you're not) or gay (implying you're male, when you're not).

EDIT: saw that you added a new question. A trans woman who like males is straight, just like a cis woman who likes males would be.

Last edited by Tonberry; 09-21-2012 at 05:59 AM.
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  #82  
Old 09-21-2012, 06:17 AM
SkylerSquirrel SkylerSquirrel is offline
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Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
EDIT: saw that you added a new question. A trans woman who like males is straight, just like a cis woman who likes males would be.
That's what I thought.

But yes, you totally get where I'm coming from I would probably also just say "I like guys" in normal conversation, lol. Androphile works too though.

Then again, maybe one day I'll end up falling for a girl and no longer have to worry about this. Who knows?
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  #83  
Old 09-21-2012, 06:58 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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That's what I thought.

But yes, you totally get where I'm coming from I would probably also just say "I like guys" in normal conversation, lol. Androphile works too though.

Then again, maybe one day I'll end up falling for a girl and no longer have to worry about this. Who knows?
When I was a teenager, everyone is my close knit group of friends came out as bisexual. Everyone but me. I spent some time waiting for it to happen, but nope. I tried hard to get attracted to females, but I just couldn't. It's weird, because a few years later I also had some female friend, who identified as straight, develop feelings for me and get confused. Of course since I wasn't interested it was even worse.
For the record, she still identifies as straight and has never been attracted to any other female since.

Anyways, now I'm like... probably not gonna happen. Seamus says he's never met a woman as straight as me, and he thinks I'm one of the rare 100% straight people.

In the end, your orientation is what it is, and it might change and fluctuate (or rather, what you identify as might), but it might not. Don't hope for it to change is my point, deal with what you've got
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  #84  
Old 09-21-2012, 08:39 AM
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I guess, Cindie, there are degrees of homophobia. I don't understand why being bi would make a man less masculine in your eyes. Surely there are millions of extremely masculine bi and gay men out there. Muscled, bearded or stubbled, tall, broad shouldered, into sports, war, politics, tractors, beer, or whatever it is you see as masculine pursuits. Maybe if this certain bi guy was a Top, only into penetrating, you'd find him a masculine guy... if he was into being penetrated you'd see that as too feminine? Otherwise, I don't get it either.
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I also have a really hard time figuring out how "bi guys are less masculine so I don't date them because I only like masculine men" could possibly be about anything other than prejudice. As Mags said, there are bi guys who fit every single definition of traditional masculinity aside from liking the cock. So... how is it about anything other than having a problem with men who like the cock? I truly am not trying to say that you have to like everyone, or that you have to like the same types of people that I like, but I just can't see a rationale that isn't based, at least on some buried, deep-seated internalization level, on the part of our culture that says "ew, gays."
Okay, I do not totally understand the basis of my preference yet myself, but I will try to explain what I've figured out thus far. What I consider masculine in a guy isn't necessarily "traditional masculinity." I don't specifically look for hairy muscled guys who are into sports, beer, and monster trucks. I don't think of "masculine" that way. And besides, there are plenty of women who like beer, sports, and monster trucks. I am attracted to a wide range of types, so it isn't even necessarily that a guy needs to be tall and hard-bodied for me to think of him as masculine. I have had boyfriends who had delicate coloring and appeared somewhat effeminate. One boyfriend I was crazy about was someone I thought was surely gay when I met him, because of his mannerisms, interests, fashion sense, and way of speaking.

So, it's hard to say what I think of as masculine. I do know that I am not attracted to men with "baby faces," ie., button noses and round cheeks, etc. Almost every guy I've been very attracted to has had a long or thick straight nose and some kind of angularity to his face. But masculinity isn't just about physical appearance or interests and pursuits. It's an energy I respond to, and I can't quite explain it. And I know that my disinterest in bisexual men isn't about where their cock has been, or if they like to be top or bottom. An ex of mine, who was a former drug addict, was straight but had been with men as a way to get drugs. I didn't care or freak out about the fact that he'd had sex with men. Didn't matter to me.

My "issue" is about who they're attracted to or interested in. And for some reason, tangled up in that, is my perception that their masculinity quotient goes down. Just as Tonberry said that she can't fantasize about gay men because she knows they'd never be interested in her, there is something about a man being attracted to another man that takes away what I see as potential to be attracted to me. It's like, if he's attracted to other women, I know how to compete with that. But in my mind, I can't compete with other men, so as soon as I find out a guy is bi or gay, I lose interest. I don't do it on purpose, it's just like a door shuts for me. I can find them physically attractive, and I can be attracted to them as friends, but there is no more sexual interest. But, I really don't see that as homophobic.

This question came to me today, while thinking of this thread: Would a gay man be called homophobic if he says he is not attracted to bi women? If not, then why is a straight woman homophobic if she's not attracted to bi men? Can we just interchange these terms to see where we align ourselves?

Also... the title of this thread mentions "polysexual" but most of the discussion has been on either bisexual or pansexual. What is polysexual, exactly?
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Last edited by nycindie; 09-21-2012 at 09:10 AM.
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  #85  
Old 09-21-2012, 09:02 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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This question came to me today, while thinking of this thread: Would a gay man be called homophobic if he says he is not attracted to bi women? If not, then why is a straight woman homophobic if she's not attracted to bi men? Can we just interchange these terms to see where we align ourselves?
I don't understand your question. A gay man isn't attracted to women, and orientation doesn't play a part. In the case of the straight woman not being attracted to bi men, her lack of attraction is the result of the other person's orientation, not her own. Completely different situation, it seems to me.
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  #86  
Old 09-21-2012, 09:14 AM
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Okay, then... is a gay man homophobic if he's turned off by bi men?
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  #87  
Old 09-21-2012, 09:35 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Okay, then... is a gay man homophobic if he's turned off by bi men?
That's closer, although I think the equivalent question really would be, "is a gay guy heterophobic if..."
Or even, are people, gay or straight, biphobic if they're not attracted by bi people?

And I don't know, but I don't see why it would make a difference whether it's a straight woman or a gay man.
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  #88  
Old 09-21-2012, 10:25 AM
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I ask because I was called homophobic for not being attracted to bisexual men, I guess mostly because I admitted to the fact that there have been instances where I was attracted to a certain man but lost the attraction when I found out he was bi. Does that make it worse than if I had never been attracted to him in the first place? What I am trying to get at is this: is it really right to say that any person, regardless of their own orientation, is homophobic if they are not attracted to bisexual people?
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  #89  
Old 09-21-2012, 10:37 AM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Originally Posted by SkylerSquirrel View Post
What do you call a male-identified trans with female parts who is attracted to men? Just curious about all the semantics of this.

A male identified person is a man, no matter his body parts. So, if he's attracted to other guys, he's a gay man. A transwoman attracted to men is straight. A transman attracted to men and women is bi. A transwoman attracted to women is a lesbian. And so on.
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miss pixi, my live-in gf, 36 (together since Jan '09)
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  #90  
Old 09-21-2012, 11:29 AM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
...there is something about a man being attracted to another man that takes away what I see as potential to be attracted to me. It's like, if he's attracted to other women, I know how to compete with that. But in my mind, I can't compete with other men, so as soon as I find out a guy is bi or gay, I lose interest.
I find this idea of "competition" the most interesting. Especially for a poly person. I don't feel any sense of competition in my love life... I don't feel I am competing with other women or men in my gf's love for me.

I don't even know how I would compete with someone else for my gf's or bf's love. Love is love, it's not a board game. I don't need strategy or weaponry.

Do you mean since you don't have a cock, you couldn't provide one for a bi man to play with, suck, be penetrated by? But he has guys for that. He would appreciate you for your feminine aspects, breasts, pussy, curves, voice, mannerisms, etc. So, there's no competition. Especially if he is a poly bi guy, so he doesn't have to make a choice between loving one of this gender or that.

How do you compete with other partners of your lovers? I can't conceive of it.

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This question came to me today, while thinking of this thread: Would a gay man be called homophobic if he says he is not attracted to bi women?
No, he'd just be gay. It wouldn't be her bi aspect, it would be he just doesn't get turned on by her body parts. The phobic part comes in, I believe when gay men won't be with bi men, or lesbians won't be with bi women. This is quite common. Lesbians can feel quite squicked out by knowing another woman has enjoyed having a cock in her pussy and not just another woman's fingers or toys or tongue. I call this het- or bi-phobia. Likewise some gay men are so grossed out by pussies, they wouldnt fuck another man who likes pussies as well as cocks.

Now, when you get into trans issues, things get a bit tricky. Why would a gay man be attracted to a drag queen, dressed exaggeratedly female? As long as she has a cock under her dress, she's OK?

Why would a lesbian be attracted to an extremely butch woman? (I am still learning about dyke culture so I don't have this all figured out yet.) I guess some lesbians dress butch partly to be unattractive to straight men, partly because they just like it. Femme lesbians can be looked askance at by butches, thought of as untrustworthy.

Many lesbians have a big issue with transwomen. It seems to be, if you have a dick, no matter how you present, you're not one of us. I am unusual in that community, being a cis woman involved with a transwoman.

Occasionally a butch lesbian will realize she is actually a man and start taking testosterone and transitioning. Then her lesbian lover has to deal with the sudden realization she is partnered with a man... What does that do to her identity as lesbian? Is her transman partner now allowed in dyke gatherings they used to attend as a couple?

In the case of the Michigan Womyn's Festival, he would be, as long as he didnt announce himself as male. Apparently, as long as he has female appearing genitalia, should he take a public shared shower, he's allowed in, even if he's sporting a beard and new muscles and has had breast surgery to get a flatter chest. But transwomen, perhaps even post-op, are not allowed in, as they aren't "womyn-born-womyn", born womyn, raised as womyn, living as womyn. Sigh...

Now, there is a kinky women's club in Boston called MOB, that allows in cis women, transwomen and transmen, and those in between. Only cis men are excluded. (And at the kinky Fetish Flea Fair held every year, cis men do try to get in to MOB's play parties, believe me.)

Quote:
If not, then why is a straight woman homophobic if she's not attracted to bi men? Can we just interchange these terms to see where we align ourselves?
No, I don't think we can.

Quote:
Also... the title of this thread mentions "polysexual" but most of the discussion has been on either bisexual or pansexual. What is polysexual, exactly?
Who knows? Only the OP knows. No one else here seems concerned with it.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

There's no lying in polyamory!

I'm a 58 year old woman with 2 partners:
miss pixi, my live-in gf, 36 (together since Jan '09)
Ginger, bf, 61, married, lives nearby (together since Jan '12)

Last edited by Magdlyn; 09-21-2012 at 11:36 AM.
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