Just bad luck or am I doing something wrong?

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by polyjuice

I've discussed a gift with R and still don't have a good idea, but at least we're talking about it.

Keep it simple. Did she register somewhere? If so, get her something on her registry. Couples really appreciate that. Believe me, usually the people that buy stuff not on the registry get it really wrong. Pick one of the more personal-ish items, and then give her something special just from you next time you have a date.

[GalaGirl]

Sounds like you've put the whole wedding hullabaloo into better perspective then. Good on you!

Weddings ARE stressy and DO eventually blow over. Don't sweat it.

If the bottom line was about finding some reason NOT to have you there because of not being out to all relatives -- we get that. who doesn't?

But I note you write this:

Disapproving of my marriage? I don't think so. But I know that M wishes I'd assert myself more. Come to think of it, R says the same thing.

I said it a few times in my posts --- get more firm and assertive. They cannot mind reader you if you are to passive in your approach. That gets frustrating.

We teach others how to treat us.

Google "conflict style assertive passive aggressive" and see how each is different.

HTH!
GG

[lolalondon]

Originally Posted by polyjuice

I've come to believe that the situation with R was really just a convenient excuse. They probably didn't want me there to begin with.

Originally Posted by polyjuice

I realize now that even if I had been invited, I probably should have "done the right thing" anyway and declined, letting them have their day for themselves.

Originally Posted by polyjuice

I seem to have a thing for strong-willed, outspoken ladies who will tell you exactly what they think of you, even at the risk of coming off as a bitch.

Originally Posted by polyjuice

But as I said above, now I don't think it was ever about R coming as my date. I think I just wasn't welcome and R was the excuse.

So... these honest, outspoken people couldn't come out and honestly/outspokenly told you the truth, that they would rather YOU didn't come to their wedding. And you would've preferred them to invite you and then for you to not go - so your preference is also to avoid having the difficult conversations.

Originally Posted by polyjuice

M demands to know everything about my relationship with R, and I do need to learn to put better limits on that... M sees herself as the more-experienced poly mentor, and wants to know how things are going with R.

Originally Posted by polyjuice

M told me at one point that they really wanted to invite R and me, but that it was dependent on M and R meeting and getting along, and R demonstrating that she could get along with D. I suppose I should never have mentioned the potential invitation to R, but I did. I was excited. So then when it turned out that they didn't want her there, it definitely felt like more of a rejection.

Originally Posted by polyjuice

R found D to be too cocky, overconfident and kind of an asshole. It's possible that M told D before her met R that she didn't want things to go well between them, but this is somewhat speculative based on an off-handed comment that M once made that I barely now recall.

You sound like you're trying hard to protect M, but she doesn't come off too well here. She sounds quite controlling actually. I'll summarise this:

• She wants to know everything about your primary relationship and then forms "opinions" - e.g. has a say in something that is likely none of her business
• She says she'll only invite R to the wedding if her and R get along? Is this an interview? Is this a punishment? I'm quite surprised you agreed to put M through this as it does imply they want to control your plus one. That isn't nice.
• To add insult to injury, you now suggest they use the reason that M doesn't like R as an excuse when actually they don't want to invite YOU. So they caused M unnecessary hurt and feelings of rejection instead of being honest.
• In addition, you suggest M might have manipulated R and D's relationship, which isn't good poly at all.

Of course, all this could have been avoided with honest, outspoken communication. For example:

• M could say they'd rather you don't come to the wedding
• You could protect your other relationship and refuse to share all with M
• M could have explained to all concerned that she isn't comfortable with R dating D

Originally Posted by polyjuice

Our biggest regret from our wedding was inviting a childhood friend of mine and not inviting her boyfriend. We said it was about space and money, and it basically was. But we also didn't really like him and didn't think it would last. The friend didn't end up coming, and when I attended THEIR wedding this year... it was very awkward. So if anyone reading this is planning a wedding any time soon: DO NOT invite half of a couple.

Exactly. In my opinion, not inviting half a couple is disrespectful towards their relationship and not the mature thing to do.

Originally Posted by polyjuice

I don't think they're being mean. I think they just don't want negative energy at their wedding. Or any weird energy from me.

If there would be negative energy it might be because of the way they've gone about this. You can put it down to wedding related stress, and ensure communication is clear and boundaries and placed in the future. Best of luck...

[polyjuice]

Originally Posted by lolalondon

So... these honest, outspoken people couldn't come out and honestly/outspokenly told you the truth...

You raise a good point. Maybe I'm wrong about their not wanting me there and using R as an excuse. Maybe they did just not want to foment conflict between me and R. It seemed strange to me that such a thing would be decided by them with so little actual discussion with me, but it's my own fault for not asserting my wishes at the time.

I do wish I could just ask M what is actually the situation, but like I said earlier: I'm not going to add to her stress by asking her to deal with me and my hangups right now. At this point, there is no good scenario in which I actually go to the wedding. So I can ask her about it when they get back from their honeymoon. Or not -- I can just let it slide and know that this particular situation will never arise again...at least not with her.

I know that I have a very passive communication style. I really am trying to grow into a more assertive communicator. R is exceptionally aggressive. This sometimes makes communication challenging. But hopefully we have another 40 or 50 years together to work on it!

As for the wedding gift: They registered for some steak knives. PERFECT.

[opalescent]

I'd have to agree with posters above that if they just didn't feel comfortable with you at the wedding, that going the route of not inviting your spouse so you wouldn't go is a bizarrely aggressive, rude way to go about you not going to the wedding. If they weren't comfortable with you being there, why didn't they just say so? That is VERY passive aggressive and manipulative for folks who are supposedly very direct and say what's on their minds all the time, damn the consequences.

You are giving them too much credit for not being dicks. They behaved in a douchy manner - this is something to take note of for the future.

That said, weddings can drive people to make decisions and do things completely out of character. Where I am concerned for you is that this does not seem out of character for them.

[polyjuice]

Originally Posted by opalescent

I'd have to agree with posters above that if they just didn't feel comfortable with you at the wedding, that going the route of not inviting your spouse so you wouldn't go is a bizarrely aggressive, rude way to go about you not going to the wedding.

That's still a big "If," which is based on assumptions I've made inside of a bit of an information vacuum. I hate not feeling like I can talk about this with R or M (R because it feels like oversharing about M, M because I don't want to upset her this week) and it means I've had to do much more speculating than I'm really comfortable with. Hopefully I'll get everything sorted out soon and I'll figure out just how douchy they were being.

[opalescent]

PJ,

My point, which I didn't explicitly make (passive aggressive on me!), is that you appear to be making excuses and reasons to explain their behavior. If you make it about 'you' - you're the reason they didn't want to invite your spouse - then perhaps their behavior is not so bad? And so you can tolerate it a bit more, a bit longer. If you see this tendency in yourself - and you very well may not - then be careful.

They didn't invite your wife because they don't like her. It's fine not to like her. Maybe she is not so likeable to many people. Clearly R and M clash in the personality department. But if they wanted you at the wedding (and I realize there is a possiblity they didn't want you there either - I think this is a slim possibility but, hey, been wrong before!) then R needed to be invited as well. To do otherwise is a shocking breech of polite behavior even in our more relaxed etiquette era. And so back to the dicky/douchy behavior...

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by polyjuice

. . . I'm not going to add to her stress by asking her to deal with me and my hangups right now.

You really want to take the blame here, don't you? It's not your hang-ups. You are left to reap what M & D have sown. Not nice of them, and somehow now you feel guilty for making a fuss. Wow, even if it's all unconscious on their parts, they are slick.

Originally Posted by polyjuice

As for the wedding gift: They registered for some steak knives. PERFECT.

Old superstition alert:

It's considered bad luck to give knives or any kind of blade, scissor, etc., as a wedding gift. Supposedly, it "cuts" or slices the matrimonial union, and puts a hex on the couple not to stay together. I did not know this until I got married and the person who gave me the knives I had registered for told me about this superstition -- and asked me for a dollar when she gave them to me. If the bride or groom "buy" the knives from you, it's no longer bad luck.

Just lettin' ya know. If someone knows about this, it might not look good for you to give knives, unless you ask for a dollar as well. Tee-hee, silly I know!

[GalaGirl]

I don't think waiting til after the wedding to discuss it is a bad thing.

Waiting til emotions calm down to discuss more calmly how this played out, where it could have been better, and how to treat you better in future with a calm, clear head is better than picking at it in the midst of hullabaloo.

Let it go for now and work on your communication skills if you want to become more assertive.

Then when they are back, talk it over in quad. No more triangulation -- just everyone on the same page. Work on your TMI boundaries and how you want to be with each other moving forward.

GG