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  #1  
Old 12-10-2009, 09:31 PM
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greenearthal greenearthal is offline
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Can I get a ruling on whether or not my website is commercial if I have things for sale but no one ever buys anything?

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  #2  
Old 12-18-2009, 05:28 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenearthal View Post
Can I get a ruling on whether or not my website is commercial if I have things for sale but no one ever buys anything?

Your link to a performance video is just fine.

Any link to a site shilling products or services can be placed in your profile, though not in posts in common areas--on the boards. (Note that sig files append to all posts, thus appear in common areas.)

Any member is free to post non-commercial links in sig files.

Any shilling--even advocating visiting sponsor via click-through--has to be in personal space--profiles.
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  #3  
Old 02-07-2010, 04:25 AM
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crisare crisare is offline
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While we do allow for links to other sites, that comes with the admonition that our boards are not a place for advertising commercial concerns. [...] All other commercial links are forbidden.
I would like to protest this rule.

I got my hand slapped for linking to a site that sells sex toys in response to someone who said he was making that kind of (unique) sex toy and wanted to know people's thoughts on them.

I have no affiliation with the business I linked, nor do I receive any compensation from them. I posted the links to help another member who was posting about something he was doing - making sex toys for sale - and to share information about a product I use and like.

So my concern here is twofold:

1 - Apparently posting a whole thread talking about the sex toys you make and sell (or plan to sell) and talking about PMing members to discuss purchasing/making those products is ok (which is clearly contradictory to the spirit of the "no commercial links" rule).

2 - The way this rule is written it means contributing members are not allowed to refer businesses or products that they use and have had good results with.

I think this is an extreme way of enforcing a no spamming rule. It is pretty obvious who regular members are vs. people who are just spamming. It's pretty obvious when someone is pimping something vs. recommending something to their friends/peers.

I own and run message boards of my own, and I would never place a blanket ban against all links of all kinds. I think that's counterproductive to the idea of a community - one that helps and supports each other.

I'd like to see this rule rethought and rewritten. The way it's written now, someone wouldn't even be allowed to post a link to something they bought and were excited about (say the boots I bought this weekend and might want to share with my friends) because it would be a link to a commercial site.
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  #4  
Old 02-07-2010, 04:41 AM
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Rarechild Rarechild is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisare View Post
I would like to protest this rule.

I got my hand slapped for linking to a site that sells sex toys in response to someone who said he was making that kind of (unique) sex toy and wanted to know people's thoughts on them.

I have no affiliation with the business I linked, nor do I receive any compensation from them. I posted the links to help another member who was posting about something he was doing - making sex toys for sale - and to share information about a product I use and like.

So my concern here is twofold:

1 - Apparently posting a whole thread talking about the sex toys you make and sell (or plan to sell) and talking about PMing members to discuss purchasing/making those products is ok (which is clearly contradictory to the spirit of the "no commercial links" rule).

2 - The way this rule is written it means contributing members are not allowed to refer businesses or products that they use and have had good results with.

I think this is an extreme way of enforcing a no spamming rule. It is pretty obvious who regular members are vs. people who are just spamming. It's pretty obvious when someone is pimping something vs. recommending something to their friends/peers.

I own and run message boards of my own, and I would never place a blanket ban against all links of all kinds. I think that's counterproductive to the idea of a community - one that helps and supports each other.

I'd like to see this rule rethought and rewritten. The way it's written now, someone wouldn't even be allowed to post a link to something they bought and were excited about (say the boots I bought this weekend and might want to share with my friends) because it would be a link to a commercial site.
Like I said in my PM to you, you are welcome to suggest companies who sell products you recommend. However, you are not welcome to post commercial links. If you give the name of the company, people can find them easily by searching for them.

Macbeth did the right thing not posting a link to a site that sold his products, but rather dealing with individuals if they had questions.

Your post has been being discussed in moderation and we will discuss it further now that you have publicly protested it.

The rules are clear- we do not want to blur the lines because it is unnecessary and would just create a bad situation when we are dealing with more spammy posts.

I will speak to you personally in PM's from here on in.
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:36 AM
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crisare crisare is offline
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I will speak to you personally in PM's from here on in.
To be honest, I'd rather anything you have to say to me be made public, if you don't mind. You suggested to me that if I had a concern, that I address it in the rules, and so I'm following your advice. I'd rather not have my hand slapped again for following the suggestion you made in private.

I think this is a topic that other members should be allowed to weigh in on rather than having it be hidden and private.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rarechild View Post
Macbeth did the right thing not posting a link to a site that sold his products, but rather dealing with individuals if they had questions.
So it's ok to spam the members by announcing that you're making a product and selling it and then soliciting them to PM you ... but it's not ok to post a link to a product you have no affiliation with other than as a satisfied customer?

Please note I have no problem with what Macbeth did. I do have a problem with the "spirit" of the rule and how it's being applied. Spamming is spamming and to say one is ok and the other is not seems to be rather contradictory and hypocritical to me.

I don't understand the rule.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 02-07-2010 at 05:55 PM. Reason: merge posts
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  #6  
Old 02-07-2010, 11:57 AM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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This matter is being brought to the attention of Olivier (the owner) and he will make the decision whether to allow commercial links under certain conditions but not others.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation.
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  #7  
Old 02-07-2010, 03:55 PM
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Rarechild Rarechild is offline
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No intention to slap anyone, just doing my job here as respectfully as I can with regard to the rules that are in place.
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  #8  
Old 02-07-2010, 06:53 PM
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Olivier Olivier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisare View Post
So it's ok to spam the members by announcing that you're making a product and selling it and then soliciting them to PM you ... but it's not ok to post a link to a product you have no affiliation with other than as a satisfied customer?

Please note I have no problem with what Macbeth did. I do have a problem with the "spirit" of the rule and how it's being applied. Spamming is spamming and to say one is ok and the other is not seems to be rather contradictory and hypocritical to me.

I don't understand the rule.
Hi Crisare,

First of all, the moderators have to deal with a constant stream of spam. It comes in tons daily. We set rules for this, and one of them was no links to commercial sites (except poly-oriented). We could possibly start discerning between established users linking to sites, and non-established users linking to sites. However, there might be folk that try to 'blend in' and then link. I also understand that a link to a site like google is pretty harmless, but we have to draw the line somewhere. Macbeth's thread about the wooden 'toys' is a nice example. He does not link to his sales page, but if people want to contact him to get one they can. It will be up to the moderators to discern if he's actually here to just sell his toys or not. Not being allowed to link or requiring users to look up an item forms a bigger barrier to prevent potential spam. The more effort it requires, the less effective spam becomes. Only if the user is really interested will they put the time in doing it. So in my opinion, Rarechild perfectly applied the rules, and there is no need to change them. Also, don't look at it as a 'punishment' or 'slap on the hands', it's just a gentle reminder that these are the rules, and that people here have to abide by them. Nuff said, it's nothing personal

I hope this clarifies it.
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  #9  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:34 PM
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crisare crisare is offline
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I was told by the moderator to bring this up for discussion. I did so. Before I could even log on and check the official answer I was given a punitive warning and a nastygram from the Moderator.

I wasn't even given a chance to read this and remove the links based on your ruling (which I would have, even though I disagree with your logic and your rule).

If I ran my message boards like this, I'd have no members. I'm extremely angry at how this was handled.

I WAS TOLD to bring this up for discussion, when I did I was reprimanded and then punished. It is personal and it WAS a punishment. Even though I was clearly told in PM to bring it up for discussion first.

And policy where members are allowed to spam, but a link to a product is forbidden is just a stupid policy. It's hypocritical.

I won't be back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier View Post
Hi Crisare,

First of all, the moderators have to deal with a constant stream of spam. It comes in tons daily. We set rules for this, and one of them was no links to commercial sites (except poly-oriented). We could possibly start discerning between established users linking to sites, and non-established users linking to sites. However, there might be folk that try to 'blend in' and then link. I also understand that a link to a site like google is pretty harmless, but we have to draw the line somewhere. Macbeth's thread about the wooden 'toys' is a nice example. He does not link to his sales page, but if people want to contact him to get one they can. It will be up to the moderators to discern if he's actually here to just sell his toys or not. Not being allowed to link or requiring users to look up an item forms a bigger barrier to prevent potential spam. The more effort it requires, the less effective spam becomes. Only if the user is really interested will they put the time in doing it. So in my opinion, Rarechild perfectly applied the rules, and there is no need to change them. Also, don't look at it as a 'punishment' or 'slap on the hands', it's just a gentle reminder that these are the rules, and that people here have to abide by them. Nuff said, it's nothing personal

I hope this clarifies it.
Here's the punitive action that was used:

Quote:
Dear crisare,

You have received a warning at Polyamory.com Forum.

Reason:
-------
Level 0 -- Warning Shot Over the Bow

You were asked to remove these links within 24 hours. I hate doing this, but you can't just ignore the rules, then ignore moderation, and I can't let the commercial links which are disallowed on this site to remain up any longer.

There will be discussion about your opinion, but that is a separate thing from my warning of yesterday.

Best,
-R
-------

Original Post:
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=20852
Quote:
Those look nice. I have 2 wooden toys - one was given as a gift and one I bought for myself becuase I liked the first one so much. Then again, I'm a big fan of various and sundry different substances - I have glass, wood, metal, etc .. and I have to say they each have their unique benefits.

BTW, here's where I bought mine from : (link for babeland)

Edit: Here's the manufacturer's website: (link for nobessence). Maybe you can get some ideas on pricing and so forth.


Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum's rules, which you are expected to understand and follow.

All the best,
Polyamory.com Forum
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Last edited by NeonKaos; 02-07-2010 at 09:52 PM. Reason: merge posts
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  #10  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:54 PM
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Rarechild Rarechild is offline
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Originally Posted by crisare View Post

I WAS TOLD to bring this up for discussion, when I did I was reprimanded and then punished. It is personal and it WAS a punishment. Even though I was clearly told in PM to bring it up for discussion first.
I believe this is what you are referring to-

Quote:
The guidelines for site posting and commercial activity are here.
user guidelines

They are a sticky on the index. I don't consider the websites you posted as adhering to those guidelines. Please make suggestions if you think this is unclear- the rules are always under editing to be as clear and productive as possible.

Like I said, mentioning the companies is fine, but the concern is promoting commercial interests of any kind.

Thanks,
-R
I'm sorry you misunderstood. I was merely linking you to the location of the rule I was enforcing, and welcoming input. I did not mean to imply that my prior warning was void because you disagreed with it.

It's really nothing personal, and I've said all I'm going to say at this point. I hope you'll stay on, regardless.

Best,
R
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