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  #11  
Old 09-02-2012, 11:04 AM
KyleKat KyleKat is offline
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As I walked to the door I saw them standing outside, not exactly kissing but kind of leaning into each other, embracing, she was smiling and he was giving her a look that I can only describe as very intimate, the kind of look that is really only meant for 1 person.
I went back through some of your earlier posts to get an idea of how you felt about your partners. You say you love more than one person, but you get upset when he gave her this special look "meant only for you"?

Maybe it's just too late/early for me and I'm understanding this incorrectly, but it seems to me like you value your relationships with your other significant others significantly less than you value your relationship with your husband? Yes, that sentence was confusing for me too.

I'm not trying to say everyone should love equally. I love my wife, and always will love her, more than anyone else. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to share looks of intimacy with my girlfriend/lover/etc.

I've just heard it before, and it's sad to know that the one thing standing in the way of happiness is insecurity. He loves you. Why let that be tarnished by a look he gave someone else?
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Kyle: 27 year old male
Katie (rymmare): 25 year old female
Kids: girl: 5 years old, boy: 3 years old
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  #12  
Old 09-02-2012, 11:29 AM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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Originally Posted by KyleKat View Post
I went back through some of your earlier posts to get an idea of how you felt about your partners. You say you love more than one person, but you get upset when he gave her this special look "meant only for you"?
hi KyleKat, what I meant was not that he is only supposed to look at me that way... what I meant was that at that moment, that look was meant only for her, and that it was difficult for me to be a witness to that intimate moment.

I guess it was all just too much, the fact that we were together at this event without being together, was just so weird.. for the whole evening, she was his date, his priority, and I'm not saying that I should have been the priority instead, just that it was hard and emotional for me to experience.
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early forties, straight.
the guys: Ren - husband; Brig - very new bf; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Mon - very new gf


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There are as many forms of love as there are moments in time. Jane Austen
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  #13  
Old 09-02-2012, 12:04 PM
KyleKat KyleKat is offline
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hi KyleKat, what I meant was not that he is only supposed to look at me that way... what I meant was that at that moment, that look was meant only for her, and that it was difficult for me to be a witness to that intimate moment.

I guess it was all just too much, the fact that we were together at this event without being together, was just so weird.. for the whole evening, she was his date, his priority, and I'm not saying that I should have been the priority instead, just that it was hard and emotional for me to experience.
Ah, then I did misunderstand. Sorry about that. Tonight is my first night on 3rd shift, and I've been at work for 10 hours. It's been pretty rough.

Back on track, I could see how an intimate moment with someone else like that would be hard to see. I also know that alcohol does not help situations. It will make your mind race and send you to the worst of possibilities. Don't ever give in to the thoughts you feel while intoxicated. They're the worst.

Going to an event like that when you know you're not going to be the "date" is something I would personally be hesitant to do, for exactly the reason you stated. I've been on "double dates" where the four of us (my wife and I plus the other couple we're seeing) are together, and even that is hard.

I remember now reading about how you wanted to go because you had a friend there as a host. Be that as it may, without having a date of your own, why was it necessary to make an appearance? Would your friend not have understood the difficulty you faced?
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"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is the regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." - Sydney Smith

Kyle: 27 year old male
Katie (rymmare): 25 year old female
Kids: girl: 5 years old, boy: 3 years old
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  #14  
Old 09-02-2012, 12:12 PM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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Originally Posted by KyleKat View Post

I remember now reading about how you wanted to go because you had a friend there as a host. Be that as it may, without having a date of your own, why was it necessary to make an appearance? Would your friend not have understood the difficulty you faced?
yes, my friend would have understood.
But I suppose I find it hard to accept that my insecurities would prevent me from going somewhere where I really wanted to go.
__________________
early forties, straight.
the guys: Ren - husband; Brig - very new bf; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Mon - very new gf


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There are as many forms of love as there are moments in time. Jane Austen
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  #15  
Old 09-03-2012, 03:00 AM
MeeraReed MeeraReed is offline
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Hi Cleo,

From what I've read of your other posts, I think I can understand why seeing that look on your husband's face was such a trigger for you: it's not your insecurities, it's because deep down you didn't want to believe that your husband truly loves such an untrustworthy woman.

She's clearly got some issues--is she still cheating on her boyfriend (with your husband)?? Ick.

For what it's worth, I think your husband is being a bit immature in his choices. I also think that a year from now, it's unlikely that he and his girlfriend will still be together.

Also, I wanted to point this out because it occurred to me when I read some of your earlier posts: you and your husband have different ideas about what kind of poly relationships each of you wants. You have "lovers"--men in other cities whom you can visit for caring, sexy friendships. He has a "girlfriend"-- someone he wants to be very integrated into his life, to meet all the friends he shares with you, to go out to dates/events in a public community that overlaps with yours.

Your lovers don't overlap with your husband's social life, right? So that means your husband has it easier than you, kind of? Because you have to struggle with having your own social life impacted by his girlfriend (his emotionally immature girlfriend). But he doesn't have to deal with seeing you with your lover(s) at his social events.

My opinion on your earlier posts was that your husband was being a bit immature and selfish to want a girlfriend who is so integrated in your lives, and then to choose a girlfriend with questionable issues. But I'm biased because my personal preference is for lover-type relationships, each independent of each other, with less integration than relationships with the boyfriend/girlfriend label.

I like the idea of two married people being able to date as individuals and to have other lovers. I know your approach is to try to step back and stay out of your husband's relationship with his girlfriend and let him conduct it how he chooses without a lot of boundaries from you.

But that would work better if she was more like your lovers.

It seems like if your husband's girlfriend was someone he went off to visit for a weekend or an evening every so often, but otherwise you didn't have to interact with her, then it would be fine for him to date a woman with cheating tendencies if that's what he chooses.

But if he wants her totally integrated into the social life shared by the two of you--then no, it's not really fair for him to ignore your bad feelings about her.

You sound intelligent and rational and you are clearly able to do the hard work of dealing with your own insecurities. But I don't think that's what you're dealing with here. I think your husband is besotted and he's asking way too much of you.
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  #16  
Old 09-03-2012, 05:30 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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But I suppose I find it hard to accept that my insecurities would prevent me from going somewhere where I really wanted to go.
Look, you have to obey your own limits. Your insecurities are flags telling you there's unfinished business at those marker points. Don't run. Examine.

You have found these things:

1) You are not good with the meta because of the cheating. I am not hearing any kind of apology/acknowledgement thing was made by her to you, the wife. I'm not hearing that you have asked your meta for one. You don't have to be best friends, but expecting polite to the wife is not unreasonable. Be nice to hear from meta that she's planning on keeping her nose clean and not ding DH anymore because at home? Then YOU are the one holding the emotional bag if she walks! Sheesh. Fresh.

2) Now you have to bear witness to their canoodly faces. That hard to bear when there's still #1 pending. You aren't going to get compersion feel goods by basking in his love light for her so you can go "Awwww... he's so cute when he's in luuuuuvvvvv!" when you feel all arghy about her. It is unfinished business there.

3) You went to an event that you normally attend with DH and overstayed your emotional limit. Even if things were GREAT with the gf and no cheaty stuff -- I think you would have felt sad about one of "your couple things" not happening this year as a couple.

So yah -- you learned some things for next time.
  • Could have stayed briefly to support friend and left early.
  • Could have brought date.
  • Could have skipped it and sent friend flowers or something to commemorate occassion.

Learning to handle that one more gracefully comes at a price -- but now you know some good stuff about yourself and ideas for navigating it next time.

It's not a TOTAL loss.

Hang in there. You will feel better when it isn't so fresh. Remember to BREATHE.

GG
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  #17  
Old 09-03-2012, 10:23 AM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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Originally Posted by MeeraReed View Post
You sound intelligent and rational and you are clearly able to do the hard work of dealing with your own insecurities. But I don't think that's what you're dealing with here. I think your husband is besotted and he's asking way too much of you.
yeah, this is exactly the dilemma I'm struggling with. Sometimes I think: suck it up, this is what poly is about, deal with your insecurities and get over it.. and then I think he IS asking too much of me.

He's not besotted though. I've seen him besotted and this is not it. But *what* it is? I have no clue, and I guess that's what so threatening: the not understanding.
__________________
early forties, straight.
the guys: Ren - husband; Brig - very new bf; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Mon - very new gf


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There are as many forms of love as there are moments in time. Jane Austen
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  #18  
Old 09-03-2012, 10:30 AM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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GalaGirl, she's never going to apologize to me. It's just not how she is or how she's functioning in this relationship. She feels she's in a relationship with my husband only (and she has apologized to him, many times, profusely).

I've been doing a lot of thinking. My husband and I agreed on a time out concerning difficult, relationship-evaluating discussions for 2 months. (part of this time we'll be travelling, just the 2 of us, for some much needed relaxation and reconnecting).
If after this time I feel better and things have settled, good. If I still feel as anxious and nervous as I do now, I will ask him 2 questions:

how would scaling down the frequency of your dates with her affect and influence your relationship with her? Will it still be the relationship you want, will you still get your wants and needs met, or do you need the amount of dates you have now for it to function the way you want?

how would scaling down the frequency of your dates with her affect and influence your relationship with me? would it improve, relax, or would you resent me for making you give up some of your time with her?

I'm just writing these down here so I'll remember them 2 months from now
__________________
early forties, straight.
the guys: Ren - husband; Brig - very new bf; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Mon - very new gf


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There are as many forms of love as there are moments in time. Jane Austen
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  #19  
Old 09-03-2012, 10:40 AM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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Originally Posted by MeeraReed View Post
Also, I wanted to point this out because it occurred to me when I read some of your earlier posts: you and your husband have different ideas about what kind of poly relationships each of you wants. You have "lovers"--men in other cities whom you can visit for caring, sexy friendships. He has a "girlfriend"-- someone he wants to be very integrated into his life, to meet all the friends he shares with you, to go out to dates/events in a public community that overlaps with yours.

Your lovers don't overlap with your husband's social life, right? So that means your husband has it easier than you, kind of? Because you have to struggle with having your own social life impacted by his girlfriend (his emotionally immature girlfriend). But he doesn't have to deal with seeing you with your lover(s) at his social events.
this isn't completely accurate - we don't necessarily have different views, the people we met sort of shaped the way the r'ships are now.
My husband has met my 2 boyfriends (lovers, I'm always confused what to call them) a couple of times. The boyfriend I see most often (about once a week) has met a number of my friends and would probably be more integrated in my social life if he did not live so far away. But even if he lived closer I would not want see him more than once a week for a sleepover and maybe one more coffeedate - not like the 5 dates my husband has had with his GF the past 10 days (and in this period, him and I only spent the evening together once).

To be fair, he's not really trying to integrate her that much into his social life. They never go anywhere together. This event was a special occasion because she was one of the hosts.
__________________
early forties, straight.
the guys: Ren - husband; Brig - very new bf; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Mon - very new gf


******************************

There are as many forms of love as there are moments in time. Jane Austen
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  #20  
Old 09-03-2012, 12:55 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleo View Post
GalaGirl, she's never going to apologize to me. It's just not how she is or how she's functioning in this relationship. She feels she's in a relationship with my husband only...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleo View Post
But even if he lived closer I would not want see him more than once a week for a sleepover and maybe one more coffeedate - not like the 5 dates my husband has had with his GF the past 10 days (and in this period, him and I only spent the evening together.
The first quote above really concerns me. Is she really interested in poly? She's correct in that you are not in a sexual relationship with her but... Does she acknowledge your existence and place in his life in any way? You do not need to be best buds or even like each other but recognizing that each other exists and has a place in your husband's life is a minimal requirement. No wonder you distrust her. I would have great issues with someone who didn't acknowledge that I wasn't a random woman in our partner's life.

I don't need to like someone - I didn't care much for SW's girlfriend. (We had little in common besides SW.) But I did respect her. Life is so much easier when partners pick people who are respectful and worthy of being respected. You have neither I'm afraid and that makes everything worse.

What was the fallout in her other relationships from her cheating? Is she trying to address those? How do her other relationships appear?

I ask because I wonder if she is a cowgirl. I understand why you are distrustful of her. She has not acted in a trustworthy manner towards you (and this is separate from how she acted towards your husband).

Is that many dates with her and few with you normal? Or is that unusual perhaps because of the event she hosted? If that's normal, I see why you want to address that.
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