Huge Problem likely Small Issue for your veterans, please help

[Derbylicious]

If you have come across to your fiance the same way you have here I can see why she would feel threatened. When I was reading your original post it was sounding very much as though you view women as playthings. I imagine in her mind she's wondering if she is one of those playthings.

I would suggest for a while backing off from the whole idea of poly and focus on your fiance and tell her what's special about her, outside of the way she looks or how fabulous she is in bed. Then as you begin to reintroduce the idea of poly explain to her what you see in the other women that doesn't have anything to do with the way they look or how they might be able to satisfy you in bed. At this point it's probably going to take a long time to rebuild that trust with your fiancee. Set a time with her, maybe around the time of your child's first birthday, to reopen the poly discussion.

[PolyPhonic]

Originally Posted by MzWiz

Ok, playing devils advocate here.....
Mostly because I dream of having a big house whereas I'm the only female and I've 2 or 3 husbands :-)

Haha, alright.

Originally Posted by MzWiz

A den of girls, a harem, yup, I can see the attraction

Absolutely. Attraction. Temptation. If I was single I would set it up and master it.

Originally Posted by MzWiz

Granted I wouldn't want to be there when their menstral cycles line up and there's PMS flying about, but putting that aside for a moment....

I'm fortunate enough to have had the experiences in life to be able to handle women. I am confident I can handle those moments. I have the tools. Hell worst case scenario, tell them to go shopping! lol

Originally Posted by MzWiz

Have you thought of the logistics of this? How it could be accomplished?

Actually yes. I have a notebook where I completely came up with a recruiting process, a breakin process, rules, how to take care of each them financially, health, etc. It sounds crazy, but I like to master the things that I do in my life, and I wanted to be sure I could handle all the aspects that could come up since they would all be relying on me as the pillar in the house. That is something attractive I provide my girls, stability and security, and I like to make sure I emanate that at all times, so I wanted ot be sure I knew how to react in all situations (STD tests, being seen in public, catfights, and situations I am still realizing could come about).

Originally Posted by MzWiz

Setting aside the fact that we all grow differently, have different needs at any particular phase of our lives,
Odds are, one or more within you group will have children, each have their own past/present family/friends...

Yeah, no problem. Where I live cost of living is cheap and I make US money with a job over the internet, so the amount I make puts me in the situation to be able to keep situations like that copasetic financially because of how much cheaper it is to live here. Also I have 6 kids myself.

Originally Posted by MzWiz

may or may not work, be able to add financially to the collective, may or may not get along with one another....
Are you willing/able to accept responsibility for several women's needs/wants as well as those of their children (present & future), to house them, feed, them, care for them not only superficially/financially but also emotionally & spiritually, helping each of them grow into whomever they wish to become?

Absolutely! In fact I am beginning to feel that is what I am here for. That is part of my purpose in life, to offer a kind sharing nurturing relationship to women in a non-threatening sharing loving environment. Absolutely! You just said exactly what excites me in life, what makes me feel happy to do.

Originally Posted by MzWiz

Honey, you may want to think about this a bit more before going to the hardware store to cut keys for your front door

I already have a security guard and camera system worked into my notebook.

Originally Posted by MzWiz

Have you heard of in-line families?
I'm researching this actually, seems very well thought out....

No haven't heard of that. I will check it out.[QUOTE=MzWiz;152102]If I had a magic wand and could "pooff" your desired world now exists, what do you see?[QUOTE=MzWiz;152102]I see more women getting their emotional needs met, more men getting their emotional needs met, and more understanding of how to be respectful to each other as individuals in a society that is more accepting of different beliefs and thinking. Worldwide.

Originally Posted by MzWiz

Start easy with the logistics (housing, medical, school/education, whatnot), them try and move into the "soft" aspects; emotions

Sounds great, and have thought about all of that.

Originally Posted by MzWiz

On my side I logic/lie to myself in thinking men are different then women so having 2-3 men under the same roof would be easier than having 2-3 women, and in some senses that may be true (please people, don't flame me for this, just call me naive and laugh, please, I like my dream even if in practice it may not hold together... but I don't know that yet as my reality isn't there yet)

As someone still ignorant to all this, I defer to your experiences, however my personal opinion right now is that naturally women are going to get along better than men. But that could just be a projection of my own beliefs. I'd have to do further research, but from what I do know about the nature of Man and Women from my research into why we are different, I can say I believe that women getting along would be easier than men getting along. Women make babies and men protect their seed to fruition. That has been the historical role for man and woman, and jealousy is conducive to making that work, so naturally it's easier for women to get used to the concept of sharing than men who are wired to be possessive.

Originally Posted by MzWiz

But even then, I have to consider their children, their exs, their families, friends, coworkers...
Trying to get one relationship solid is hard enough, trying to get multiples under one roof in a long term growth oriented structure.... My ideal, yes, but I know it's going to be a heck of a lot of work/negotiation/compromise and as people are ever changing, just as everything is going well, life will send us another curve ball....

I'm fortunate to live in an area of the world where a kind of liberation is occuring and new concepts are being grasped more openly than I've found in the USA. There are a lot of idealists in the USA, well everywhere. Anyway, I'm in a good spot to push new ideas where I am.

Originally Posted by MzWiz

Think about it....... In your ideal situation, beyond sexual fantasies

This isn't a need inside me to satisfy a sexual fantasy. I like to share affection and intimacy. For my that does not have to be penis vaagina, or even if it is, it doesn't have to be "sex". I just want to make that clear. I am not trying to find sexual promiscuity or fulfill some kink. This is about infinite love.

Originally Posted by MzWiz

what does it look/feel like.... And are these views/perceptions possible or just a great wet dream?

Definitely possible, I'm just trying to figure out if I can live the life with my wife-to-be. It's scary stuff. I imagine gays who come out of the closet in marriages go through the same very difficult growth.

[PolyPhonic]

Originally Posted by Derbylicious

If you have come across to your fiance the same way you have here I can see why she would feel threatened. When I was reading your original post it was sounding very much as though you view women as playthings. I imagine in her mind she's wondering if she is one of those playthings.

No, I don't come across that way with her. I can't. She is mostly spanish speaking. Every word is carefully chosen and if needed translated or said in different ways.

I was just connecting the dots for you guys. As long winded as the original post was, it's definitely abbreviated. I was just giving everyone the full range of what's being discussed, it doesn't mean any of it was not approached with sensitivity or better minced words.

Originally Posted by Derbylicious

I would suggest for a while backing off from the whole idea of poly and focus on your fiance and tell her what's special about her, outside of the way she looks or how fabulous she is in bed. Then as you begin to reintroduce the idea of poly explain to her what you see in the other women that doesn't have anything to do with the way they look or how they might be able to satisfy you in bed. At this point it's probably going to take a long time to rebuild that trust with your fiancee. Set a time with her, maybe around the time of your child's first birthday, to reopen the poly discussion.

Well it's a looming topic for her causing insecurity. So we have to talk about it now. I tried to put it on hold as the other poster recommended, but she brought it up on her own. I told her I didn't want or need to talk about it, but she just keeps talking about it.

But the good news is we've had a very nice discussion and we've reached a temporary compromise which in my mind is similar to putting the whole discussion on hold.

[PolyPhonic]

I wish that the complications that arose from teh differences between people could be as simple as "I wish I could get her/him/them to think the way I think." But I think what I really was hoping people to help out with here, is ideas for compromise. That is what we're hoping to hear. Other living situations between mono/poly hetero relationships (I say "hetero" because it's the conservative living with the open minded that I am interested in hearing about how they get along, but if there are conservative gay, lesbian, or bi's, that is just as applicable and we'd like to hear about it).

I have shown my fiancee all these responses and my posting, and it's been very very helpful for her to know that there is a community out there of people who are trying to get along in similar situations.

She and I are now simply under the rainy cloud of "is this going to work out?". It's sad for both of us, and we just want to hear some solutions to try out or consider so that we have the tools to see if we can be happy together. Is poly that evolved yet? Is there guides on different lifestyle approaches and how to make them work? Like when you rent a U-Haul and they give you the pamphlet about "Moving"

[GalaGirl]

I've read your thread. I'm not sure if you are after swinging or poly or some mixture or something.

1) Get a counselor. See if any do internet appts.

2) Postpone wedding date til you sort this out. Read more resources. There's all the books but quick online places are

www.morethantwo.com
serolynne.com

3) WHAT kind of relationship model are you after? There's as many ways to do poly as there are poly people. Here's just a few examples of models. What is the model YOU want? Get clearer on that.

• Is this married with some threesome swinging on the side? (She seems open to that)
  
• Is this a polyfidelitious grouping of 4?
  
• Is this a you guys are married but have Spice on the side? Like an "N"?
• Something else?

4) Why are you trying to "peddle" or "sell" her on this? She is either up for it or not. Pressuring her is NOT NICE. Cut it out.

Have the discussion and ACCEPT THE RESULT.

• Write out your wants, needs, and limits and relationship model(s) you are after.
• She shows you her wants, needs, and limits and the relationship model(s) she is after.
• If something lines up, and you can each accept that, great. That's the model you try on.
• If it does NOT line up? Break up now and stop trying to force a square peg in a round hole.

It just isn't going to fly forced.

GalaGirl

[sundevil]

Very much sounds to me like she's in a place of "OK, you had your fun playing about with this, but I'm done. It's poly or me, decide."

If that is in fact the case - pushing her, however gently, to reconsider will likely only make her dig in. Your watching shows about polyamory and trying to discuss/persuade her is going to make her feel pressured into doing something she's clearly not ready for, for whatever reason. I'd say your options are to drop it, at least for the time being, or risk losing her.

[snowmelt]

You just came out of a marriage. Now you want to play. That's fine. Play. There is a reason it's called playing. No real commitment wanted. I read your post. I know you said you are willing to take care of "your girls". The overall tone of your post sounds more like you want your girls to take care of you on a rolling, overlapping basis. Commitment is about much more than paying the bills.

Don't get married. Play as much as you want to. When you're finished playing, take your head out of the clouds, come back to earth, take a breath, look around and reevaluate.

[PolyPhonic]

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

I've read your thread. I'm not sure if you are after swinging or poly or some mixture or something.

Totally. It's all very viscous right now. However, if I had free reign to choose I feel best with living with at least two girls. Guys I know don't like living with girls, they prefer to play with them and not let them mess with their feng shui. That difference in sentiment right there is what tells me I am more interested in Poly than Swinging, because I prefer to live with and care for several women.

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

1) Get a counselor. See if any do internet appts.

Ah very cool, internet appointments. Yeah I bet if I do some research I can find some that do Skype. Great idea that I had not even thought of. Thanks.

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

2) Postpone wedding date til you sort this out. Read more resources. There's all the books but quick online places are
www.morethantwo.com
serolynne.com

Yep, good advice. Will check out those links (and bookmark them), thanks.

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

3) WHAT kind of relationship model are you after? There's as many ways to do poly as there are poly people. Here's just a few examples of models. What is the model YOU want? Get clearer on that.

Ok, yes, very interested in seeing other models to see things I hadn't thought of or considered.

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

• Is this married with some threesome swinging on the side? (She seems open to that)
• Is this a polyfidelitious grouping of 4?
• Is this a you guys are married but have Spice on the side? Like an "N"?
• Something else?

Can you explain the "N" formation? Not quite picturing that. Looks like one person goes with the partner of another couple.

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

4) Why are you trying to "peddle" or "sell" her on this? She is either up for it or not.

Because she wanted to understand why I think that way, so along with educating her about different ideas I say "let's try it".

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

Pressuring her is NOT NICE. Cut it out.

Well I have no other choice at this point. I have changed/grown into this, and she either comes with me, learns to compromise or tolerate it, or we do have to go our separate ways. I'm not going to live my life like a mono anymore. I can't stand that model. I am a very adventurous person with a very open mind, very creative. The idea of NOT being able to enjoy anything we want to try in life (because my ideas for fun are stifled by her; while I support all her ideas for fun), causes me emotional pain. And so embracing me, is up to her.

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

Have the discussion and ACCEPT THE RESULT.

I'm not going to sacrifice myself, my one life to live, during the best years of my life and become a vision of someone I find uneventful and unfulfilled.

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

• Write out your wants, needs, and limits and relationship model(s) you are after.
• She shows you her wants, needs, and limits and the relationship model(s) she is after.
• If something lines up, and you can each accept that, great. That's the model you try on.
• If it does NOT line up? Break up now and stop trying to force a square peg in a round hole.

It just isn't going to fly forced.

GalaGirl

Ok great, it's great to hear your opinion. Opinions of those with clarity, experience, and wisdom are so valuable. I really appreciate your response. Thank you!

[PolyPhonic]

Originally Posted by snowmelt

You just came out of a marriage. Now you want to play. That's fine. Play. There is a reason it's called playing. No real commitment wanted. I read your post. I know you said you are willing to take care of "your girls". The overall tone of your post sounds more like you want your girls to take care of you on a rolling, overlapping basis. Commitment is about much more than paying the bills.

Don't get married. Play as much as you want to. When you're finished playing, take your head out of the clouds, come back to earth, take a breath, look around and reevaluate.

I'm pretty positive it's more than that for me. I mean how does one know if they are "poly" versus a "player"/"swinger"? When does a player/swinger enter the myriad of possible relationship configurations or mindsets that are found in the universe of Poly? To me it's about that I want to become attached to multiple women, emotionally, at the same time, and I would like us all to enjoy each other's companionship together because I don't feel good excluding anyone when we could all just get along if we have an open mind. And to me, it's not at all about sex. It's about intimacy. Sex to me is something you do for enjoyment. Intimacy is for when you project feelings of love and compassion. I am interested in being in love with multiple women. I think that is Poly and not "playing". Although I may be a poly virgin, but I'm pretty sure that what I see and read about Poly lines up with what's inside me.

And the idea of "playing" like a player plays, is repulsive. I have never been that disrespectful to women. When I was dating several dozen woman in Los Angeles, I let them each know how many sexual partners I had going, how many were still only dating, and how I felt about each of them, and that I had room in my heart to get to know them as well as the other girls and that everyone knows my situation. At that time I was not aware that there was a philosophy (way of life) for co-existing. I heard about it, but so minimally that I thought it was just some part of an underground "weird" society or something polygamists who wind up going to jail do. I never understood there was a respectful model out there, or I would have whole heartedly embraced it. It just so happens to be my journey, to have learned about it during the process of being engaged to a girl and almost getting married. An unfortunate coincidence for her because she seems to prefer mono, though if she can slowly adapt, than she and I can stay together forever. But she is Latina and there is a lot of jealousy, possessiveness, envy and catholic morals engrained into their moral code and beliefs all throughout their life, through friends, family, TV, society. I just happen to be so open minded to always question anything, no matter if it's family, TV, friends, society, religion, musical preferences, etc. I've always been a very tolerant open minded person.

[snowmelt]

Originally Posted by evanevans

I'm pretty positive it's more than that for me. I mean how does one know if they are "poly" versus a "player"/"swinger"? Poly lines up with what's inside me.

You sound very sincere. The most important thing you can do is figure out who you are, and how you want to live. It sounds like you already know how important that is, and you're working on it.

Just make sure you only make commitments and promises you can keep.

Originally Posted by evanevans

When I was dating several dozen woman in Los Angeles

Since a dozen is 12, several dozen could be 48 or 60.