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  #11  
Old 08-31-2012, 02:31 AM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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You're absent in your marriage. You're using poly as a replacement for the "you" that isn't there. You think by doing this you are no longer absent. You think by doing this you are being a responsible husband. Absent is not a way of taking responsibility. You did not become poly. You stepped out of your marriage altogether. Your wife is trying to live her life in your absence. The solution is to step back in. You can still be poly, you just have to be in your marriage to do it. The experience you are calling jealousy is coming from the fact that you are watching her live her life from a place outside of her life.


This is why I need the history. To see things like this. If you look only at the poly, you can easily miss the bigger picture.

Last edited by snowmelt; 08-31-2012 at 03:24 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-31-2012, 04:04 AM
scout989 scout989 is offline
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@snowmelt: I think you misread. That time? The time when I was an absent husband? That was 4 years ago. Reread the last part of my post. I am now a full and loving partner to my wife. I am still an alcoholic (and always will be), but I have drastically changed who I am in the world and in the lives of those around me.

Any more questions?
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  #13  
Old 08-31-2012, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scout989 View Post
@snowmelt: I think you misread. That time? The time when I was an absent husband? That was 4 years ago. Reread the last part of my post. I am now a full and loving partner to my wife. I am still an alcoholic (and always will be), but I have drastically changed who I am in the world and in the lives of those around me.

Any more questions?
Ah, that answered the timeline question I had. BTW, good job on the turn around and recovery.
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  #14  
Old 08-31-2012, 04:22 AM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scout989 View Post
Any more questions?
No more questions. I'm going to spend a few more minutes on the forum if you have anything else to add.
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  #15  
Old 08-31-2012, 04:24 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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In my universe? You are out at three strikes. This is chronic cheating not just agreement breaking. I frown on this.

So I apologize if the rest of my post sounds brusque. This kind of thing really is UGH to me. I feel very strongly about the concept of "Play like a Jedi. Not like a Muppet, or just do not play here with me!"

Without TRUTH telling, and clear communication and keeping of promises -- a good polyship just will NOT fly.

If she's not at 3 strikes? Renegotiate the boundary. As it stands she clearly cannot be trusted to keep it. So change it to something she CAN honor that you both can agree to as fair for you both. Then she can keep it, you can relax and not feel ugh and devalued each time it is broken. Perhaps you can tweak something like this to suit you both in your situation.

Quote:
Example:

It is not unreasonable to ask you to STOP putting my emotional health, mental health, physical health, and spiritual health and well being thru the wringer just because you choose to follow your immediate pleasure and not honor our previous agreement. This is not showing me any respect and denies me dignity.

Proposed new agreement:
  • Carry condoms at all times. USE. Both with ME and with your Others. End of fluid bonding.
  • I prefer to know before hand. If you cannot stop yourself in the heat of the moment, put on a condom, and tell me ASAP this happened. But I prefer to know first. Do not abuse your get out of jail free card here -- you can use it (how many times? I gave only 1 card for fubars.)
  • I have the right to know who I may catch things from! Condoms can fail or break.
  • Give me the right to know my own sex health business. Give me that respect and dignity.

If you can agree this will be the new deal? Let's go with that.

Keep it up? Keep breaking agreements? We have to (Make new agreement? Close? Break Up? Pick SOMETHING for your consequence. What is your LIMIT?)
Keep it real, dude. Cheating is NOT cool and that's just not gonna work if all you end up doing is moving lines to enable her to cheat easier.

If she's not gonna play like a Jedi, why go there? ETHICAL polyamory, please!

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 08-31-2012 at 04:37 AM.
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  #16  
Old 08-31-2012, 05:01 AM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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I do have a couple of things to add. I just read GalaGirls post. If this really is just about dishonesty then I agree with the boundaries she is talking about. It's up to you to enforce them, and then decide for yourself if you still want the marriage if she continues to break them.

You two had a rocky start with the poly, and you mentioned codependence. That's a heavy load. I'm still very curious about what is causing her to be dishonest - if it's related to that rocky start. Only she really knows that.

If you want the marriage and you're still willing to work on it with her, and you two find what is really going on with her to cause her to cheat, and she is willing to look at her own behavior (a lot of and's), you two may be able to get beyond this quickly without the stress of wondering if and when the next time is she will cheat. That would be a very good thing. It's up to you if you want to talk more about this with me. You'll have to be willing to talk about it in depth.

If so, let me know anything else you think is relevant, and we will take it from there another time. If not, I hope you get what you need from others here.

It's time for me to log off.
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  #17  
Old 08-31-2012, 05:25 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scout989 View Post
"Well, I just got caught up in the moment, feeling so loved, that the moment was so perfect..."
She says that poly is part of who she is,and I don't know that we would be able to be together if I decide that I am not able/willing to be poly in my relationship with her.
There was some other thing I wanted to quote but I can't find it.
GalaGirl has great advice as usual. I'll repeat that being poly doesn't mean "I get to do what I want if it breaks agreements we made" Some people DO it that way, but then they don't have much business making agreements they don't feel like keeping. After the second time somebody breaks an agreement with me (barring the big ones), they (or I) need to have the self awareness to ask for a renegotiation - it doesn't do anybody any good to keep an agreement that isn't working so it keeps damaging the relationship .

I'd be fearful that her "getting caught up in the moment" would mean safe sex agreements wouldn't be upheld either. It is nice she is being honest after she breaks agreements...I guess? From what you said you aren't reading as jealous as all, I have cheating in my past and that is something that's a trigger for me too - and as she seems to feel entitled to "spread the love" but not be sensitive and caring to an existing partner, I am wondering if there are other things she does like that that in your relationship dynamic that don't have to do with poly.

Why does she put herself in situations where she will break agreements, knowing she is prone to break them?

I am guessing there is something bigger going on, maybe she is punishing you for something, the difficult times you had in the past. Maybe she didn't expect you to be OK with her seeing other people, and she is pushing things farther and farther with the idea you will break at some point. Maybe she really needs to sit down, be really honest, and ask to renegotiate from scratch. I don't hear you asking her not to be poly, I hear you asking her to keep agreements. She seems to be kind of actively making sure you are not comfortable with poly, or at least doing poly with her.

My guess is that your only chance of minimizing broken agreements is to go with GalaGirl's suggestions - so at your bottom line, are you OK giving up anything that even hints at trying to "control her freedom" or do you need certain actions to feel safe sexually, and feel able to trust your partner? Do you think you can have both those things?
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  #18  
Old 08-31-2012, 04:05 PM
newbie1 newbie1 is offline
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I think you need to talk seriously to your wife...Maybe Poly is not for you....I know all the feelings that you are going through - and I too have been hurt many many times and had my boundaries crossed many times by my husband....it is the nature of the beast i think.

Perhaps working on it slowly - do you know of these other people she is seeing? Have you met them?

I wish you happiness and balance in this relationship - as I hope for the same as mine
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  #19  
Old 08-31-2012, 04:52 PM
Skye Skye is offline
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I agree that it is still cheating. She is using "being poly" as an excuse for bad behavior. Being poly means honesty and trust above all, period. She isn't fulfilling either of those criteria.

I think you need to start from scratch, maybe wipe the slate clean, redefine your boundaries, and if she continues to disrespect you by not following those boundaries, then it is time to decide what to do long term. You can't continue to be treated like crap.
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  #20  
Old 09-01-2012, 02:10 AM
scout989 scout989 is offline
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@all: I plan to spend some time talking more with my wife about the reasons behind her actions. That sounds like a good place to start.

@Anneintherain: I am most definitely prone to jealousy issues- I'm just not really focusing on that in this discussion. Suffice it to say that I have jealousy issues even when she keeps my boundaries. I just recognize that those are my issues- and am now looking for effective ways of dealing with them. I'm not trying to put those on her.

As to why she keeps putting herself in these kind of situations: we've had that conversation. I don't think there was ever any clear answer. That would be a good topic to bring back up now.

@newbie1: I am indeed seriously considering that poly is not for me... or maybe not for this relationship. That is part of what I need to figure out here- if it is indeed "the nature of the beast" I think I'm pretty much done.

@Skye: I'm pretty sure I can't just wipe the slate clean like it was nothing. It's going to take time, work, and honesty to get there. However, I agree that we might need to start from scratch when we get there.
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