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  #11  
Old 08-28-2012, 07:47 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Originally Posted by Urvile View Post
I disagree strongly.
The one thing I've learned is no one is a island. if I were to enter into a another relationship, I'd need to know, not like, but know, all parties involved, and to do this over time. Months. Most of the real heart ache was created simply out of ignorance and impulse. I don't want to make him the focus of this, you are right, it's about her and I. But, what ever ignorance he had, it was by his choice. He didn't go away, he didn't ask questions, and he was dishonest multiple times.
I still say the problem is with your partner. if you don't trust them, you don't trust them. A lot of poly people will not be checking with you to make sure everything is above board. Time is short, life is busy, a lot of people live independently, and while glad to meet you if it's something important to your partner, may just not want to take the time to chat with you otherwise (my perception is that women are more likely to want to meet/confirm/check etc than men)

Not that you cant disagree of course - if he was dishonest, sure that's a problem but it doesn't really mean that if your partner is lying that you go after the person helping them be a liar. There are all sorts of levels of involvement in poly - and I mean..when you had an affair, would it have been useful for your gf to contact that person letting them know they were a bad person who was causing problems for you two?

"They had been corresponding for about six months, he knew all about me ( Or so he said). And he said he had no intention of causing harm to her and my relationship. ( heh, only after in secret trying to fuck her.) "
That is all her, he does not owe you anything, sad to say. Many people will have sex with other people before meeting other partners. They don't consider fucking somebody who says they are poly to be something they are doing in "secret" it's up to your partner to talk to you. Lots of people do require otherwise but really, it's up to your partner to be the one who keep communication clear and honest.
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  #12  
Old 08-28-2012, 03:18 PM
Urvile Urvile is offline
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I'd agree the probem is between her and I.
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  #13  
Old 08-28-2012, 09:09 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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I'll put it very simply. Feeling like you want to escape is perfectly rational in this situation. Over and over, she's failed to respect you, and what good is love without respect? Set yourself free. You can leave any time you want. Don't forget that. There's no reason to feel trapped by a relationship that keeps hurting you and trampling over your desires, first for monogamy, then for honesty, then for fairness.... enough is enough.
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  #14  
Old 08-29-2012, 12:55 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Am I crazy for sticking around? Or do I have my head up my ass?
Yes and yes.

If you don't end this toxic relationship, then -- at the very least -- stop paying her bills. Seriously, why do you stay? Love is not enough! To find satisfaction in relationships, there has to be mutual caring, respect, affection, and trust, among other things. I see no evidence of these things in your story.

I say get out while the gettin' is good!

These lyrics seem appropriate:
"There must be fifty ways
To leave your lover...
Fifty ways to leave your lover
You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don’t need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don’t need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free . . ."
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Last edited by nycindie; 08-29-2012 at 01:01 AM.
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  #15  
Old 08-29-2012, 02:55 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Originally Posted by Urvile View Post
is there hope?
Are there coping skills I don't know? Am I crazy for sticking around? Or do I have my head up my ass?

What do you think?
I think a better question is,
what is the probability that this is ever going to be reconciled.

I could write a book on the topic-but... I already did. Feel free to read my blog.

I was in an open relationship prior to marriage.
I married and agreed to monogamy.
I cheated.
I got pregnant.
I aborted.
I promised no more cheating.
I cheated more-same other guy.
I got my head out of my ass.
I stopped lying to myself and EVERYONE else about ANYTHING at all.
3 years later, I haven't told a lie and have managed to build a much more functional and stable relatinoship with both my husband and my boyfriend (same guy from beginning).

So-can it happen-sure, under two very specific conditions.
1) IF the cheater (in your case both of you or all of you) is willing to TOTALLY take FULL responsibility for their actions AND change the underlying issues within themselves that make them think its ok to lie, cheat, deceive or in anyway-manipulate the truth (which includes lying by omission).

But-probability has shown that very few people are ACTUALLY willing to do that work.

2) everyone is willing to do the hard emotional work to fully forgive past transgressions and get to know the "new" version of themselves and each other without holding on to any of the animosity or angst from the past circumstances.

Again-easier said than done.

For my story-if you want it-which I will readily tell you has been HELL- feel free to drag yourself through my blog (linked in my signature).
But-be forewarned-what we've accomplished has NOT been easy and MANY PEOPLE including each of us personally would happily tell you that we don't advise it-as a rule of thumb.
It's very painful and the work-while worth the effort for us-is a lot of work for a payoff that comes in the DISTANT future.
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  #16  
Old 08-29-2012, 03:03 PM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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I read your story, and I have a few things to say. My impression of you, after reading your story, is it takes a little bit of work to get you to listen to what someone is telling you. I will talk more about that in my words below. I want you to listen to me, so I am going to be blunt with all of my words. Please understand I am doing this because I want to help you see a few things about yourself, and I am not sure I will get through to you if I write this reply in a low key manner. Please accept my bluntness as my way of trying to help you.


THE FACTS:

Your relationship with her is not based on poly. You have little to no experience with poly. You have lots of experience being in a relationship with someone who lies to you and cheats on you.


THE REAL QUESTION:

Why are you in a relationship with someone who lies to you and cheats on you?



ANOTHER WAY OF ASKING THIS QUESTION:

Why are you willing to be on the receiving end of this abuse?



ANOTHER WAY OF ASKING THIS QUESTION:

Why is your self esteem so low that being in a relationship with her is worth all of this abuse?



MY VERY BLUNT CONCLUSION - MY VERY BLUNT OPINION:

She told you the truth in the very beginning. She said she does not do monogamy well. You did nothing with that. You swept it under the rug. You ignored it. You did not discuss with her what that was about for her. This means you did not respect the truth when she gave it to you. This means you did not respect HER when she showed you an intimate part of herself. You did not respect HER because you were looking only at your own needs, and how she could respond to them.


The result of that one inaction on your part is you opened a big door and let someone in your life who now lies to you. You stay with her. All of this says to me you accept lies from her much more easily than you accept the truth. This fact makes this situation you are in entirely about you. You are much more willing to receive lies and abuse than you are willing to receive the truth and respect, so that is the kind of relationship you get - a relationship that gives you lies and abuse. This is a fact. Your only job now is to ask yourself why is this the way you are right now? All she is doing is being who she really is.


Based on the story you told, I can draw a very simple conclusion. It is very hard to communicate with you just by talking. She tried that when she told you she has a hard time with monogamy. That didn't get through, so she had to SHOW you she has a hard time with monogamy. You STILL ignored it, because you complained and stayed when she did not change. You cannot change her, the only thing you can do if you want to be in a relationship with people who are honest with you and treat you with respect is to end this with her and find others who are honest. She does not have to change anything for you to improve your life. You do. You have to leave her. You have not. Your life stays the same. Simple math.


You have a lot of work to do on yourself before you can find someone honest. You have to answer this question:

"Why do I ignore the truth when someone gives it to me, accept lies and cheating, then complain about it when I already knew who they really were and what they would do?"

Don't even try to tell me you did not know who she is. If you are tempted even a little to do that, reread my reply. There is something inside of you that tells you it is ok to receive abuse. Your job is to find it, so you can learn why you let abusive people into your life, and change YOU.

Last edited by snowmelt; 08-29-2012 at 03:06 PM.
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  #17  
Old 08-29-2012, 03:27 PM
Urvile Urvile is offline
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Quote:
"Why do I ignore the truth when someone gives it to me, accept lies and cheating, then complain about it when I already knew who they really were and what they would do?"

Don't even try to tell me you did not know who she is. If you are tempted even a little to do that, reread my reply. There is something inside of you that tells you it is ok to receive abuse. Your job is to find it, so you can learn why you let abusive people into your life, and change YOU.
I take all of these to heart. It's the lesson I keep/kept on learning over and over. Not standing up for myself, not facing the truth, that it was abuse, not some lack in myself. I own what has happened.

I've been struggling to wrap my arms around it all, and face her directly. And I have been moving towards extracting myself from this situation.

Last edited by Urvile; 08-29-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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  #18  
Old 08-29-2012, 03:46 PM
Urvile Urvile is offline
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I missed this before, wanted to comment.

Quote:
"when you had an affair, would it have been useful for your gf to contact that person letting them know they were a bad person who was causing problems for you two?"
* It was a moment of impulse, I'm not excusing it, just context.
* The person whom I had a affair with, was her friend first.
* The person whom I had the affair with, knew the situation ( lies / cheating /blaming ) and in her own way was trying to heal me.
* I've lost the friendship of someone I really care about because of this.
* When it came out, ironicaly there was a virtual cat fight between them. They no longer talk.
* I wanted to come out into the open almost immediately. I felt like such a hypocrite.
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  #19  
Old 08-29-2012, 03:46 PM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urvile View Post
... and face her directly.
Facing her is a waste of time. How many years? You are still missing the point. It's time to face yourself, and ask all the questions.

There are a lot of dishonest people in this world. They may be the toll taker, the construction worker, the guy who lives 5 doors down from me, the airplane mechanic, etc. I don't know where they are all hiding right now.

I do know one thing, none of them are in my life in any personal way. Why is that? I have developed a skill that I call walking away. I do that at the slightest hint of dishonesty. You have developed a skill called walking toward. The words you wrote that I quoted for this reply shout that from the mountain tops.

The only question you really have to ask YOURSELF is why do you walk towards? You will live the way you do now until you answer that question and learn how to walk away.

The answer to that question is about you. It's not about anyone else. The more you look at her, the more you miss the point. Self reflection is key here.

Last edited by snowmelt; 08-29-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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  #20  
Old 08-29-2012, 03:59 PM
Urvile Urvile is offline
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Quote:
The only question you really have to ask YOURSELF is why do you walk towards? You will live the way you do now until you answer that question and learn how to walk away.
This point has been driven home so many ways, and well before I came and asked the question.

I'd say this has been a learning experience for me. Each time, I avoided that question, I got hit by the clue stick, and each time it hit harder.

I've been sure of these answers for a while. I came here to ask, because of self doubt, that little voice that says, maybe it's your ego, maybe you are just jealous. To avoid hubris.

What do I walk towards? One thing is, to be happy just to be by myself. To have clear direction, and move towards it. To build my life, not spin and spin and spin.

Last edited by Urvile; 08-29-2012 at 04:01 PM.
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