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  #21  
Old 08-26-2012, 03:09 PM
MzWiz MzWiz is offline
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Clyde,
You mention trying everything, of being naive.... How so naive? What growth, what addition night came to light, that gave you a new perception of your reality?

I realize you may not want to share ths insight openly, or perhaps it was a series of things therefor too long to get into, yet this is how I'm feeling, naive... like there's some fact/reality here I'm missing/overlooked....

Which links perfectly with his lack of libido actually. He admits he self-services (but has no interest in my participating in any way with this activity, or any interest in me helping find hm a partner, with or without my joining) and when I am able to get him going, all the plumbing works fine..... He just has no interest in another physical form, mine or other (says he wants only mine yet only shares of himself/partakes extremely rarely...)
I don't understand. For me, physical and sexual intimacy is like eating & breathing... the potential combinations offered by poly; a veritable feast for the senses, a buffet of sensations & emotions (good & bad) within which I could happily drown a million times over.... but I want my "rock", my primary (this one or another), where I know, beyond a doubt, that come hell or high water, we're "good", we're "solid", we will face the storm & come out stronger
My primary & I, we have this on so many levels..... except physical & emotional intimacy. No amount of conversation, explanation, discussion, whatever, has been able to get us closer to resolution on this. Best I could do is negotiate this DADT which has reminded me I am female and I'm not as unattractive/undesirable as I may think I am.
Sorry...... Babbling.....

I feel I'm missing something here.....
Yet know too the answer(s) can only come from him....
Or from when my own brain/logic patterns, click things together (I hope: in a perfect "Ah Ha!" moment)...
Which brings me back to you, Clyde,
Naive.... How so....?
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  #22  
Old 08-26-2012, 04:21 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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I strongly suggest you get the book, "The 5 Love Languages". Even if he won't read it, it can give you really good information. I recognized my husband right away and things started to make a lot more sense to me. My husband just got the highlights. For years, both of us were trying to show our love for each other by expressing the things that made US feel loved, which did almost nothing for the other person.

I'm not a touch person and for a long time I too pulled away when my husband touched me because, in the past, that was his way of asking for sex (after my kids were born, I had no desire and it was just one more obligation that required time and energy). I couldn't even enjoy a simple caress of my arm without instant anxiety. Start small, ask him to give you a hug everyday when you come home from work. Give him the control to start it and end it, knowing sex won't be expected. If that works, then gradually add a few more thing in one at a time. For those of us that aren't touch people, it takes time and practice to be comfortable offering and even receiving touch. For me it became much easier to initiate the touching toward my husband when I knew that was what made him feel loved (he could have cared less that I made him breakfast). Make the promise to both him and yourself, that you won't expect sex unless either of you specifically and bluntly asks for it, "Honey, can we have sex?". Trust me this can seriously reduce the anxiety, if there is any.

I'm no therapist and it sound like you and your husband could use one. Even if it's you alone, the therapist may have more insight and help for your regarding your husband's issues.

PS - do some research into high functioning autism and PTSD, a few things you mention raised some red flags.

Last edited by SNeacail; 08-26-2012 at 04:27 PM.
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  #23  
Old 08-26-2012, 05:18 PM
MzWiz MzWiz is offline
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Until a week ago, I never heard of this book.
I did online test, sent him results, requested he test, repeated few days later without result - ie: no interest
Without mowing such a book existed, we ave had conversations about perception of love, how one can do "x" but not valued/seen as love by other
I make it a point to emphasise when I see love in his actions/words, be they t'wards me or others.... we smile together :-)

In my culture, it is community to hug/kiss others (think Greek/Italian/French)
So we balance the line of acceptable/unacceptable physical contact very delicately.
I've two best friends, female, never sexual, but one, we get "into" each others space and we're well there, he husband reacts a little odd, jokes/pokes at us: the other likes her private space as hers, no touching/double-kiss, yet even she will open, now and then, and we share connectedness
It's not sex, sex is an extension thereof (depending on the relationship)
But connectedness, not "doing together" but "being", just for a moment....
Replicating that moment.... stretching it.....
Sex is the easy part, physical mechanics....
The spirit, the inner you, open, loving, naked (with or without clothing)....

Sorry, I know you know what's mean
I believe it's what we all want, really, just to be loved
How we transmit/receive love varies from person to person
How to balance that long term with one person is a challenge,
With multiples, that much more so :-)
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  #24  
Old 08-26-2012, 05:34 PM
Clyde Clyde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MzWiz View Post
Clyde,
You mention trying everything, of being naive.... How so naive? What growth, what addition night came to light, that gave you a new perception of your reality?
Don't want to make this about me so will try to put "Naive" and "Everything" into a nutshell--unfortunately little chance it will be brief.

"Naive" refers to relationships, specifically the psychology of people in a relationship. My psyche was bent by an intuitive, liberal and artistic mother & authoritarian-to-the-point-of-abuse, strictly moral father ("no sex until marriage under pain of death, or worse, and once married, together until death doth you part", no mention whether one party or the other able to forcibly terminate the marriage prematurely according to the letter of those rules), perhaps wisely separated from the only woman I ever truly loved in adolescence by our parents before we were able to consummate the union--not necessarily a recipe for sexual psychosis but certainly a gift that keeps on giving, that provides e.g. natural insight into some of Nabokov's better known works, Bergman....Woody Allen. I was a virgin when my best female friend introduced me to her best friend and my wife-to-be (i.e., little aware that having sex with her would trigger the family curse: marriage...death...blah, blah blah). Might not have been so much of an issue if my wife were a virgin as well but her past lovers--"Mr. Ancient History, Finished Business, A. Longtimeago, etc."--had a way of materializing in the here and now in the stylishly attired flesh on our couch. I was by then totally confused by her unwillingness or inability to grasp what their existence signified to me, increasingly confused about what was past, present and future, but overall I was by then an intellectual, which is to say far more adept at thinking long dark thoughts and slowly poisoning myself with coffee, nicotine and booze--mostly sitting in my room all night to avoid the nightmares sleep brought, writing math equations & juvenile thoughts in a journal & stewing about the 12-year-old bride that got away--than making small talk, washing dishes or changing diapers. I deeply resented the men in her life, regretted the curse of marriage, could not for the life of me figure a way out of the hole I'd dug for myself. While I may have entertained fears of going insane my behaviour and treatment of my wife--similar to what you describe of the man in your life--was actually driving her insane.

"Everything" includes a number of experimental sexual encounters thereafter, the first with her (and my) best female friend, partly to test the hypothesis that I'd simply missed the '60's and since apparently everyone was now having sex with everyone else all I needed to do was even the score. That turned out to be a mistake.

"Everything" also includes studying over a couple of decades any literature, music, art, philosophical thought and popular drivel remotely associated with relationships (Shakespeare; Kierkegaard; Dante; Bertrand Russell; the Existentialists; anything written by a woman, a Russian or that made the New York Times best seller list; and so on) and then PhD theses in the field of what was emerging as relationship science, imprinting as an RNA time bomb and Old Flame phenomena. Then as a last ditch effort I tracked down and seduced the 12 year old ghost that haunted me all my life (at that point funnily enough a happily married, middle aged woman), which profound experience of intimacy prolonged over some years at last seemed to put things into calm, overarching perspective. Too bad Nabokov never granted Humbert Humbert that mercy. All I ever wanted was intimacy--souls to touch, to feel what you feel for a moment or 2--all I should have brought to the marriage in the first place, and what I struggle to bring now.

Last edited by Clyde; 08-26-2012 at 06:41 PM. Reason: typo, clarity
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  #25  
Old 08-26-2012, 06:45 PM
MzWiz MzWiz is offline
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You're beautiful Clyde....
I've a smile ear to ear, thank you
Strangely enough, I think I get it.... a bit...
Going to digest this smile a little more, ponder...
Thank you.... :-)
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  #26  
Old 08-26-2012, 08:23 PM
Clyde Clyde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MzWiz View Post
You're beautiful Clyde....
thanks and I hope it helps, but we shouldn't suppose any beauty conveyed by printed words extends to their author unfortunately; perhaps because like any beast I've been obsessed with beauty all my life, or more properly with truth, the unadorned image of beauty (somewhat like the picture of Dorian Gray the more terrible the truth the more beautiful)--what you see perhaps a simple reflection of the fact--and if like the beast then before he was Disney-fied ... more like the monster I contemplate in the mirror from time to time, in fact.

Last edited by Clyde; 08-26-2012 at 09:10 PM. Reason: rephrasing, need sleep :)
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  #27  
Old 08-26-2012, 09:13 PM
MzWiz MzWiz is offline
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I believe in quantum physics, if what you say/believe is true, Clyde, than so it shall be...... A monster, eh? You sure about that?

The guidance/wisdom you offer/voice in your previous note, show me someone pensive, profund, caring, striving for balance, for truth, for love
This is not something, someone frivolous, selfish, "ugly" to my eyes
I'm not flirting, simply stating what I see/feel
Be you GQ or the hunchback of Notre Dame; this is irrelevant in the eyes of love, no?

As for absorption of content/intent, that I'm still chewing on....
:-)
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  #28  
Old 08-27-2012, 02:11 AM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MzWiz View Post
Until a week ago, I never heard of this book.
I did online test, sent him results, requested he test, repeated few days later without result - ie: no interest
My husband didn't read it either and I didn't even bother asking him to take an online test, yeah like that was going to happen. However, I did read the whole book. It gave me new understanding to myself and my husband. I was finally able to describe to him how I functioned, in a language he could understand, and was able to discuss it well enough to get information from him. I'd say, this sound like you and read a section to him, then he would comment.
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  #29  
Old 08-27-2012, 01:34 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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How long have you been seeing your BF? Why now? From a quantum physics perspective why now. End game or short term comfort, operational comfort for you and bf.

Does your husband and bf know each other.?

Do you now identify as being poly or feel forced to live a poly lifestyle because of unmet physical needs?
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  #30  
Old 08-27-2012, 02:59 PM
MzWiz MzWiz is offline
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Me & primary = close to 20 years
Me & secondary = almost a year

Why now?
Because on my side, much of the preliminary rush of NRE is fading and I'm more & more comfortable with my second, want to spend more time together doing regular things (we have weekended together & done overnights outta town, very nice to walk openly together)
Because I don't like lies/cover-up. If I felt me & second was only physical, I wouldn't be trying to break this wall, but feels much more than just physical, I would really like to have him in my life long term, years, and I can't see myself covering things up gat long... I probably could, especially if my primary purposefully turns a blind eye, but I'm hiding part of me fom he who supposedly loves me the most and that just doesn't feel right
Because when DADT was offered (and it was offered twice), we spoke of "what ifs" and my falling in love with someone else was discussed. Well, it happened, I'm there, but I don't want to go the mono way (for lack of a better term), I'm not looking to rip & replace (actually have a 2 year no contact rule in place with second, should my life change, I've defend myself for so long as part of this couple, will need to relearn about me should/when my primary ends)

No, the don't know each other
But as people, they do share similar interests
In an ideal world, I'd have two husbands (this I've dreamed & openly spoken of for years & years)
Though in learning more of poly, an in-line family would work as well (a communal corporate entity kinda)

I identify as poly...... But never knew the term till recently....
Previously, I had a seven year open relationship and I was quite comfortable in that setting. He & I were primary, I dated, he dated, we dated, mix & match of a wide range of scenarios, each of us enjoying/experimenting where/how we chose, we had signals, open conversations.... Heck, I even bought him a real redhead for his birthday one year (collar & cuffs to match). I enjoyed myself and enjoyed knowing he was having his fun too. We spoke of having a triad (didn't know the term back then), he had no interest in long-term with others in that kind or arrangement (as in actually living together) yet we each had other relationships while we were primary, and we'd openly discuss the..... And though that was my longest open relationship, it wasn't the first....
So ya, the more I read/learn, the more poly fits my insides
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