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  #11  
Old 08-15-2012, 04:05 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Lots of people already gave good thoughts. Here's my spin.

You guys did NOT agree to close up for pregnancy/child rearing.

Quote:
Meanwhile, his interest in me waned. First, he didn't really want to spend time with me, telling me that he felt too tired.
Is it YOU? Or the realities of fatherhood?

Quote:
Then, he stopped wanting to have sex with me, claiming a low sex drive due to exhaustion.
Could be tired. New parents often are.

Or is it turn off of the pregnant female? Lactating breasts? Aches and pains and kids underfoot nursing?

Was it couvade?

Quote:
I have a hard time accepting his claim of exhaustion and low sex drive, since he will stay out extremely late to pursue other women.
And why is this done? To run away from the grown up business at home of being a present father? He made this baby didn't he? With you? Even if he's finding he's not cut out to be a father and he wants OUT of the marriage -- he needs to play like a grown up then and resolve it.

WHAT DOES HE WANT FROM YOU AND THE RELATIONSHIP? Honestly? You in or out?

Quote:
I don't know what to do. I am so jealous. I didn't feel so jealous when we first started out, when I felt loved and wanted, but seeing him pursue these women when I so desperately want his attention but he denies me, it hurts so much.
Have you been checked for postpartum depression?

And heck ya, you'd be miffed. There's work at home to do with little babies and he's not being the partner he signed up to be when making these babies with you. He's not following through on a lot of promises.

If he did not WANT to make the babies, he should have been clear in his wants, needs, and limits from the start.

Again... WHAT DOES HE WANT FROM YOU AND THE RELATIONSHIP? Honestly? You in or out?

Quote:
I've tried talking to him about it, but he says he doesn't enjoy spending time with me when I don't act happy, and I really really want him to want to spend time with me. I don't want to leave. I have young kids. I really love him. I wish I had never heard of polyamory. How do I fix this mess?
I do not think the problem is polyamory. I think the root of the problem is him shirking his father responsibilities and his husband responsibilities. He is not giving you clear communication. He is not giving you support and nurture. In short, in my universe? He is in violation of MANY bullet points! And he would be in serious trouble because he is NOT in right relationship with me!

If he is depressed or you are from the experience of pregnancy and birthing and living with infants -- in my universe?
  • You are responsible for taking care of your own stuff.

Get your health check ups and get on track as individuals. That is first. I would start there.

Then have the talk. What do you each want from this relationship? Wants, needs, limits. Are you both still IN or is he on the OUT? Be real. Be honest.

Get thee to counseling if you both still want to be IN this marriage. Close down as much as possible -- if serious rships already in place, fine, but no dating NEW people! MAKE the time to work on THIS marriage. Time doesn't fall out of the sky. You MAKE it.

Get thee to a mediator or lawyer if you do not find that BOTH partners are IN and not likely to be in time -- and take steps to amicable split. Clear and clean. No dragging it on longer than needed -- set it up to protect the children and get you on your feet then in a career. In a way that is fair and responsible. It takes two to tango and you guys created new life.

It it hard to feel. It is hard to think about. But really? This is not complicated.

Are we healthy and thinking in our right minds? (Get the health checks).

Once we are verified there? Are we IN or are we OUT of this marriage?

Then plan responsibly and ethically based on the answer to that Umbrella Question. You need to know where you stand.

Hang in there. *hugs*

GL!
GalaGirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 08-15-2012 at 04:09 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-23-2012, 02:36 PM
illflyaway illflyaway is offline
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I had my last babies over two years ago, but we've had a string of miscarriages in the meantime. I think my partner wants to parent. He talks about wanting to try again and even about having a big family. On the other hand, he easily gets frustrated by them and very rarely takes care of the kids by himself when they are awake.

My husband definitely has deep, deep issues with women that go far beyond the gripes I have in our marriage, but I still want to reconcile.

He says he doesn't want a woman counselor because he worries we would gang up on him and that a man would be better able to see his side. I did look into GLBT-friendly counselors and found a man who has experience with open relationships. I made an appointment for next week, but the counselor will only take new clients who will take evening appointments, which makes my husband resistant. I don't know if he'll go, but I figure even if he backs out, I will go.

I am working on trying to schedule activities outside of the house. My partner resists. He tells me he feels too tired on nights he stays home to take care of the kids. Because I normally put the kids to bed, it takes him a whole lot longer than it would take me, and I feel bad about asking him to do something that takes him hours when it takes me less than 45 minutes. I know eventually they'd find a rhythm, but he always struggled more with parenting than me.

I've had a pretty extensive health check-ups within the last year due to the pregnancy losses. My health isn't perfect. In terms of our relationship, my doctor has told me that I should have physical therapy since my abdominal muscles haven't healed properly from my last pregnancy, and I know that if I did this, my tummy would look better, and perhaps he would find it more attractive. I'm working on making this a priority, even though my husband says he doesn't care and rather just have me stay home. As much as I would like it to make him like me, I would feel better about my body if I did this. My doctor doesn't think I have any mental health issues, though. He is pretty laid back, though. I plan to keep the counseling session even if my husband refuses to go, because even if he doesn't go, I'd be interested if someone who specializes in this kind of thing feels differently.

For a while, I tried to get my husband to get a physical from a doctor (due to the fertility issues). He refused. First, he said he didn't know who he wanted to see, so I found a doctor I thought he'd like. Now he says he's too tired.

All in all, I'm hoping the counseling will help me find the next step. I'd love it if my husband decided to come. He says he still loves me and wants to be in this relationship, but like me, he also says he'd stay in the relationship even if he no longer loved me. I know that he wants a partner to cook, clean, and raise children in exchange for financial stability, and I'm down with that deal, but I don't really know if he's all that interested in a romantic relationship. He says he is, but he's been so resistant to counseling, doc appointments, etc..., it's hard to see that.

Thank you so much all. Before, I just felt so much despair and just stuck. Now, I have some hope that maybe things will change. We'll see. Thanks.
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  #13  
Old 08-23-2012, 03:30 PM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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You both are insecure about something. Your insecurities magnify his insecurities and vice versa. That means each time you do something because you are insecure, he sees you doing it. When he sees you doing it, he has the experience of feeling his own insecurities even more intensely than he did before he saw you doing it. He reacts to his experience of feeling the increased intensity of his own insecurities by doing something. You see that "something" he does, and it heightens your own feeling of insecurity.

It's a cycle both of you fuel with your reactions to each other. It takes a lot of energy to keep the cycle going. Both of you get exhausted from it.
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  #14  
Old 08-23-2012, 03:37 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I'm sorry about the miscarriages. *hugs*

I am glad YOU got counseling to help you sort and make these kinds of decisions. That is you trying to take care of your health buckets in mind, body, heart, spirit responsibly.

I apologize in advance if this is Hard to Hear. But I am amazed! Gobsmacked! I worry for your kids.

But I'm seeing a guy who is all talk and no show. He talks big but refuses to deliver when it's time to walk the walk. Finds/makes excuse. NOT responsible. It's all there plain as day in your post.

He TALKS about wanting more babies and about loving you. His ACTIONS show
  • not wanting to care for the kids he already has
  • skipping doc appts, counselor appts.
  • Devaluing your work/ time as the house secretary and making extra work when he fails to keep and you reschedule
  • he doesn't care if he causes you emotional and mental worry/pain about his well being
  • withholds support and nurture in your wanting physical therpay to heal your abs. He lacks concern for your well being in physical health in pregnancy healing or for your mental health in you wanting to look/feel good about yourself in your post pregnancy body.


Quote:
He says he still loves me and wants to be in this relationship, but like me, he also says he'd stay in the relationship even if he no longer loved me.
Why is it "like me" that both of you are willing to stay with partners you do not love in a loveless relationship? Are you going to be roomies then? Who fuck? And make babies?

Why is he happy to treat you like a sperm recepticle? If flips the other way too -- why are you happy to treat him like the walking sperm donor? Is that kind and responsible to the children?

Never mind "in love" -- is it KIND behavior? Responsible?

Will the children will grow up watching this mess and say "Yah, our parents were roomies who fuck in a loveless relationship. From our model, we have learned how to live without love. Yay us. Our own relationship skills from learning this model are _____? We have been taught being treated poorly for yonks is ok, and ignoring our own health and well being buckets for yonks is ok. So now we have been well groomed to accept abuse in relationships to the nth degree and go lookin' for love in all the wrong places. Much easier prey. Or that it is ok for US to treat other people like this and be abusers. "

Quote:
I know that he wants a partner to cook, clean, and raise children in exchange for financial stability. and I'm down with that deal.
That's your business, but you sound like you REALLY want is a full and present partner, with romance. WHY would you be willing to have less than what you really want? And be down with a deal like that? Is that tending your emotional/spiritual health buckets well? Your kid's buckets?

Quote:
but I don't really know if he's all that interested in a romantic relationship. He says he is, but he's been so resistant to counseling, doc appointments, etc..., it's hard to see that.
It's easy to see. He is not interested at this time, hon. All talk no show. It is the WHY he is not interested.

If he is major depressed and showing signs? Talk to your counselor about involuntary commitment steps a spouse could take to get hubby evaluated and dx'd. If you even are willing to be with a depressed partner? You cannot be with an UNTREATED one like this -- even you don't want that! You posted for help!

Work with counselor to prepare you, then tell your husband he has appt with Dr X at Y time, you are driving or you can taxi together. And if he doesn't keep it, you will take intervention steps. No lame "too tired" excuse crap! Enough with the caca!

Or else he just doesn't give a damn because he likes things how they are just using you with minimal price tag.
He just has to sing a song and he gets all his needs met. He doesn't have to act to provide anything much himself. Just the lowest needs -- food, shelter. Walk away! Run! You deserve to feel alive and happy to the core in mind, body, heart, and spirit. Not just "not be dead."

Either way, he isn't giving a damn about you right now, so YOU need to give a damn about you right now. and the kids. All the stronger!

Quote:
My husband definitely has deep, deep issues with women that go far beyond the gripes I have in our marriage, but I still want to reconcile.
What you WANT may not be what you NEED. Is this husband the healthiest partner person for you and your children that you could have? Would you be healthier in mind, body, heart, spirit without him? The kids?

I'm sorry you are dealing in all this. I do not envy you.

But I am glad you got yourself a counselor to help you sort. I hope things continue to look up for you as you move it along in the right direction --move it forward! You at least are sounding less "stuck." Baby steps!

Keeping it real sometimes is very hard to do. But keep it real here. Keep moving it forward. Be brave.

I will hope for the best in your situation. Hang in there.

hugs,
GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 08-23-2012 at 06:27 PM.
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  #15  
Old 08-23-2012, 05:21 PM
Nudibranch Nudibranch is offline
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Any man who treats a wife better based on her putting on a mask of happiness is one I would have kicked to the curb a long time ago. After tightly sealing the lawn n leaf bag.

Your husband is failing you and your and his children IMO. He is bearing down to pursue a footloose existence centered on his whims and desires, and he is using psychological pressure on you, punching your insecurity buttons.

You need support in your corner to help you clarify this situation. I'm glad you are seeking it, and proud of you. You deserve better than a loveless marriage to someone who manifests selfish behaviors and puts in so little at the human level.

As GalaGirl said, he signed up for better or worse, etc., to be your partner. He implanted babies in you; he is their father; you are his wife. This is not the time for him to be chasing a stiffie and calling it poly and evading his responsibilities. He's not getting YOUR one single relationship right; how is he going to qualify to do others?

You need to expect, and demand, MORE of him. Not make excuses for his behavior. "It's hard to see...." Not it's not, hon. It's clear as the noses on Mt. Rushmore.

Having said all this rather bluntly, please know that I empathize with you and your situation, send you warmth and caring thoughts, and truly hope you can use everyone's input to hearten yourself. Something in you is looking for a better deal for you and your children; something in you is pushing you to change for the better. That is a good thing. But part of it is going to mean you not excusing things that you may have in the past!

Oh, one last thing? If your husband cannot get the kids tucked in in 45 minutes, and it takes hours, that's a measure in my estimate of how absent he has been. First, because he doesn't know what he's doing (by now he should have this down) and second, because the kids are apparently so starved for his attention, they act out.
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  #16  
Old 08-23-2012, 11:15 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Sounds like some serious co-dependent and addict behavior too.

He's acting like an addict-and you are acting co-dependent. Actually-it seems to go both ways...

I hope you stick with the counseling.

Allowing someone else to bend your boundaries isn't love.

Love means wanting AND SUPPORTING each other in becoming the best version of yourselves possible.
Not hindering it through apathy or blatant disregard.
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  #17  
Old 08-23-2012, 11:46 PM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
He's acting like an addict-and you are acting co-dependent. Actually-it seems to go both ways...
Exactly. They each take turns being the addict and the codependent once per go around. It's a repeating self propelled cycle.

Last edited by snowmelt; 08-24-2012 at 12:04 AM.
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  #18  
Old 08-24-2012, 03:01 AM
illflyaway illflyaway is offline
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I'm still processing what's being said, but I guess I'm wondering: How do I know if it's depression or he likes things the way they are? He doesn't seem depressed to me, but he doesn't like to talk about feelings and stuff with me, either. It's so hard for me to see that he's not interested... I don't know how I could tell.

I don't understand the addict comments. Addicted to what?

Thanks for all your time.
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  #19  
Old 08-24-2012, 03:48 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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They are talking about addicted to sex and/or addicted to the natural hormone high produce in New Relationship Energy. It is a brain cascade of hormones that gives you the "Wheee!" of pink fluffy lala clouds.

You can google more about neurobiology and neuroscience of falling in love but here's a brief. The adrenalin, dopamine, seratonin cocktail is a natural high.

If he's addicted to being high all the time - he's addicted and he doesn't want to do his responsibilities. He's like on crack or something. And like with living with a druggie -- do you want to live with someone this messed up all the time? If they make NO steps to break their addiction and come back to earth?

Quote:
I'm still processing what's being said, but I guess I'm wondering: How do I know if it's depression or he likes things the way they are? He doesn't seem depressed to me, but he doesn't like to talk about feelings and stuff with me, either. It's so hard for me to see that he's not interested... I don't know how I could tell.
Sigh. He's not depressed seeming?

Then I'm starting to red flag. I am worried about you. I know others wonder if it is possible you are codependent. But maybe it is NOT you.

Please take this to heart -- I'm not trying to heap more burdens on you. I know what I write could be Hard to Hear. I feel for you. I would not wish abuse on anyone, and I'm not saying you are being abused. Only you know your situation over there. I sincerely hope you are not. But if you are?

I do not think the abuse victim is actually codependent. He or she is suffering in another way.

Rather than suggest you stand up for yourself at this time then -- I'm going to suggest do NOTHING about him just yet. Stay safe FIRST while you learn about your options and decide what to do next. What do YOU want from life? You only get the one. Just quietly see your counselor on your own for professional help to assess this situation from a person who is actually THERE.

If he is not seeming depressed and he's using/abusing you, standing up when you don't know what is really going on and you are fragile could put you in larger danger. He could decide you are being "uppity" and take you down a few pegs.

So take this to highlighter. Be honest if other things on that list are happening to you. Then don't think about it til your appointment. Take it to your counselor to show person other things you may be experiencing. If it is not safe to leave it around the house, don't do it at home. Wait to go print it at the library on your appt day and take it to your counselor to fill out THERE and leave with the counselor.

http://speakoutloud.net/wp-content/u...urphy-2010.pdf

And visit the rest of the website. Start here. Abuse vs healthy relationship.

If you are having trouble SEEING, perhaps it is because you are not able to see objectively any more. Once you live with weird it is very hard to see what is normal any more because YOUR normal has been so weird so long and your vision is constantly being fogged up. Waking up is hard.

You are being very brave in trying to help yourself. Ask your counselor about the cycle of abuse and if this could be happening to you or not.

I'm some internet stranger, not a pro counselor.

But I commend you and salute you
for trying to deal with a hard situation here. You are being brave in trying to get to the bottom of all this, and getting a pro to help you sort. That is HUGE!

Good on you! You are worth this and so much more. You have value, and dignity. You shine on with quiet courage for now.

I will hope you find a brighter and better future.

Namaste,
GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 08-24-2012 at 01:56 PM.
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  #20  
Old 08-24-2012, 11:36 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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[QUOTE=illflyaway;150012]

He tells me he feels too tired on nights he stays home to take care of the kids. Because I normally put the kids to bed, it takes him a whole lot longer than it would take me, and I feel bad about asking him to do something that takes him hours when it takes me less than 45 minutes. I know eventually they'd find a rhythm, but he always struggled more with parenting than me.

he also says he'd stay in the relationship even if he no longer loved me. I know that he wants a partner to cook, clean, and raise children in exchange for financial stability, and I'm down with that deal, but I don't really know if he's all that interested in a romantic relationship. He says he is, but he's been so resistant to counseling, doc appointments, etc..., it's hard to see that.
/QUOTE]

He has the energy to go seek new relationship (anybody sane knows a new relationship takes energy and effort) he's not too tired for the kids, he's too tired to be an adult.
I wonder, since you're content to be the housefrau at home if not that interested in dating him,do you really care about this stuff? You are advocating for him to be a better person. It's hard enough to get a willing human to act right, I imagine its hopeless to get a non committal human to do so...

I don't know if you have other things going on, but your posts dont read that you are that invested in if your marriage lasts past tomorrow, I don't know if you're just defeated or not interested in your relationship anymore.
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