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Old 08-20-2012, 08:25 PM
charlesgarnier charlesgarnier is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
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If think it is useless to discuss with people who consider cheating as a crime, even if more than 70% of people in the US (after 5 years of marriage) have been unfaithful at least once. Those people simply deny reality. Yes, I think divorcing for one single cheat is, in most of the cases, stupid. Less hypocrisy in the society would avoid a lot of trauma and family destruction. Anyway I donít want to have a philosophical discussion on this point. I repeat again: each of the 4 of us now know what happen, so there is no more ďcheatingĒ for two years. When facts are not hidden, there is not cheating. Thatís a part of my own ethical code.

I also consider that people, married or not, are free and responsible. If Chrisí husband wants to leave her, he can. If Anna wants to leave me, she can. No need to transfer funds, each of 4 of us can afford a divorce. I do not consider marriage as something more than an arrangement to live together more easily, and not as a contract who should force people to stay together whereas they do not want to, or not to have sex with somebody else whereas they want too. Thatís a part of my own ethical code, see that as arrogance or asa, I donít mind, I do not look for a judgment.

I donít seek for being forgiven or something like that. Anna is the only person on earth who can give me absolution.

I am not looking only for my own selfish happiness, I want Anna and Chris to be happy, and wish Chrisí husband to be happy too. I wonít be happy until Anna and Chris are both happy.

I was not clear enough about some points.
- I apologized and made huge efforts to convince Anna to stay with me. We have met several counselosr, have discussed whole nights and days and we are trying to advance together. I find myself guilty of putting her in this situation and want her to find happiness. I strongly doubt (and so does she) that my separation from Chris is THE solution.
- As I said, Anna is not unhappy. We had discussions years ago on whether we should have other relationships. We did not go further in these discussions, but she enjoys the relationships she has now. She is open to the idea we have both extra relationships, but she is still hurt by my relationship with Chris and by its strength. She is still not clear on what she really wants.
- Chrisí husband still does not consider polyamory as a model, but his life with Chris is quite normal, it seems he has found a kind of equilibrium.

I read that if everybody is not happy, we should move. But move to where? I do not want to lost Anna nor Chris. Anna and Chrisí husband do not want to divorce. Chris does not want to break her family nor lost me.

To answer dingedheart :
- We consider our spouses are primary
- We continue to have long time project with them

But we have difficulties Chris and I to be completely clear on the fact that we do not want to live together. We have difficulties to make our spouses happy again. The two issues are probably linked.

The best suggestion I've read is to have a discussion between the 4 of us. I am considering that.
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