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  #11  
Old 08-18-2012, 08:19 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Hi there. You are not alone. There are plenty of members here who don't subscribe to hierarchies in their poly relationships. There have been numerous debates and discussions on this and related topics. If you do a tag search for terms such as "equanimity" "co-primaries" "hierarchy" veto", you will find some discussions which may interest you.

But to start you off, there is a long Master Thread discussing the pros and cons of hierarchies here: Primary/Secondary: Merged Threads, General Discussion / Debate

You may also like:
What Are Your Poly Guidelines And Boundaries?

Interesting PoV on Veto

Solo poly people - what's your ideal?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phy View Post
Hm, I guess I understand what you are getting at, but you have to bear in mind: Whomever you invite into your life, will be part of the life of your other partner(s) as well.
Maybe. Maybe not. I prefer to keep my relationships separate from each other. They know that I see other people, but nobody needs to meet or have any involvement with each other. I guess this depends on whether you are solo/independent or partnered/cohabiting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ttree View Post
. . . I find it interesting that you are in a primary relationship which does not incorporate "vetos". I think this is what my current relationship could turn into.
But why would it turn into a veto arrangement if that is exactly what you don't want? Set your own boundaries and don't agree to things that don't work for you. It almost sounds as if you see polyamory as this "thing" that will take over your life and make decisions for you, putting you in situations that you don't like.

It's simple, really. You want to have multiple relationships, you manage them, state and accept what you want, reject what you don't want, and move on if people give you shit and expect you to conform to their rules without regarding yours.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 08-18-2012 at 08:37 PM.
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  #12  
Old 08-18-2012, 09:30 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Well, put me down as another person with a primary who doesn't have arbitrary VETO power.

At any time in the relationship we can all talk, if they have concerns. I trust their judgment, and will make decisions based on that, and the fact that sometime NRE can make me a bit blind to the realities.

The thing is, if I were to meet someone new that I wanted to have a relationship with, I would expect to have this discussion with both of my ladies to get their feedback on the person - my "secondary" would have just as much of a say as my "primary".

You most certainly aren't required to give VETO power to anyone in terms of relationships.
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  #13  
Old 08-18-2012, 10:03 PM
Hannahfluke Hannahfluke is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
But why would it turn into a veto arrangement if that is exactly what you don't want? Set your own boundaries and don't agree to things that don't work for you. It almost sounds as if you see polyamory as this "thing" that will take over your life and make decisions for you, putting you in situations that you don't like.

It's simple, really. You want to have multiple relationships, you manage them, state and accept what you want, reject what you don't want, and move on if people give you shit and expect you to conform to their rules without regarding yours.
I think you read that wrong. The way I read it was that she was excited about the idea that she could have a primary relationship without a veto and expects her relationship to change into one of those if it becomes primary, one without a veto.
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  #14  
Old 08-18-2012, 10:08 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannahfluke View Post
I think you read that wrong.
Oh, whoops! I guess I interpreted it the opposite way.
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #15  
Old 08-18-2012, 10:17 PM
Ttree Ttree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
But why would it turn into a veto arrangement if that is exactly what you don't want? Set your own boundaries and don't agree to things that don't work for you. It almost sounds as if you see polyamory as this "thing" that will take over your life and make decisions for you, putting you in situations that you don't like.
.
Nycindie, thanks for all the links and info. This is great! I was so lost on the forums before I started messaging you guys.

As Hannah said, what I meant was with my current relationship could become a primary relationship WITHOUT vetos (sorry, that sentence was a bit ambiguous ), just by virtue of how close he and I are. Yes, through this recent breakup I have certainly learned to stick to my guns and as I've said my one dealbreaker is anyone who tries to "cowboy" me or try to otherwise restrict whom I may love or date.

Regarding him meeting the people I am serious about, I think he wants to just make sure nobody is trying to use me. He knows my history of having been through emotional abuse, and he is pretty good at reading people (certainly better at it than I am, this I know). As I've said, he does not (and will not try to) determine whether I date someone. I also personally would prefer the people I get into relationships with to get to know each other. Both of us are quite direct and relational and prefer open conversation with people regardless of the potential awkwardness.

It's great to see I am not the only one who is trying to do things this way and that there are quite a few people who don't strictly adhere to the veto principle. It really helps being able to hear how other similar poly relationships function.
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  #16  
Old 08-19-2012, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post

Maybe. Maybe not. I prefer to keep my relationships separate from each other. They know that I see other people, but nobody needs to meet or have any involvement with each other. I guess this depends on whether you are solo/independent or partnered/cohabiting.
There won't be a relationship that doesn't involve you on a certain level. Disease/protection-wise or time-wise at least. Decisions like living together with someone (even if oneself isn't the one in question), having children or making decisions financially. Some of those points will involve you even if you are solo and poly, because it severely alters the circumstances for your partner and therefore for your relationship with this person.

I am not trying to say that you need to veto to handle those possiblities, but you are certainly always somewhere in the picture, even you are not the direct recipient of those changes or given factors.
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  #17  
Old 08-19-2012, 02:04 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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I am in a V as the hinge. Husband and bf live with me. Bf is mono, dh is not. We don't have DATING veto power. We do have 'they aren't welcome around the kids' power. But, thats as close as it gets to veto power.
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  #18  
Old 08-19-2012, 05:01 AM
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RainyGrlJenny RainyGrlJenny is offline
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I do have hierarchical relationships - Fly is the man I live with and raise his child with, who I currently consider my only primary. Punk and I are secondary for each other, as we both have primary relationships. Moonlight is secondary right now, but as I get to know her better, I can see her perhaps becoming more of a non-live-in primary for me.

Fly and I don't have veto power over each other. The only veto-type situation we might encounter is if someone is putting our kiddo in physical/mental/emotional danger or otherwise impacting him negatively. There was a period of time where he dated someone who influenced his behavior in such a way that it damaged the relationship between he and I. I never told or asked him to stop dating her, but I did reserve the right to say, "X, y, and z is happening, and I don't want to live like this. If this is what you want, then you and I need to renegotiate what our partnership looks like, or perhaps dissolve it." It was then up to him to make decisions about what he wanted in his life, and he and I ended up changing some boundaries, and he came up with some new boundaries with her that made us all more comfortable.

Although we've never explicitly discussed it, I am fairly certain Punk's wife has veto power, simply because she is the dominant force in their relationship. I don't think she'd utilize it lightly, but it is one of the things that makes me uncomfortable around her. It's also one of the various barriers that has kept me from taking the relationship deeper, because EVERYTHING (when he's available, where we can go on dates, etc.) revolves around her schedule - her stuff comes first, and he has to fit his stuff around hers. His lack of autonomy and their unequal power balance prevents me from trusting our relationship.

Moonlight is single, and operates more like nycindie as far as having separate lovers and relationships, so there's no veto to worry about there.

As new people come into my life, I expect all the people I'm involved with to have opinions, fears, frustrations, whatever, and those are important to me. But no one gets to tell me how to live or who to love
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- No longer lives with ex-boyfriend Fly (1/2006 - 12/2013, my introduction to nonmonogamy, ultimately amicable breakup), and his 10-year-old son Kiddo
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  #19  
Old 08-19-2012, 07:02 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
I am looking for anyone who can advise me or chat regarding non-hierarchical relationships, particularly the firsthand experience of those who also happily identify as non-hierarchical as I seem to only be able to find discussions on hierarchical relationships. Anyone have some experience on this topic to share with me? Any info would be good.
Alright. I'm non-heirarchy.

At this time we are Closed. In the old "V" I was the hinge and I considered them both equally important to me. But it was not anyone's fault that one side was older and further developed than the other. In time those mere months would have faded to nothing. But one side was LDR so that also played a factor in how fast that side could simmer. YKWIM? We broke up and parted friends, I married then BF now DH.

Now DH and I deliberate about Opening again one day -- but def after childcare and eldercare demands chills out some. My dad is first with serious mental health patient stuff going on. I anticipate the other parents to have more needs as they continue to age. So I don't want to do more than talk with DH. There's such thing as waiting for a good time to Open -- not in a super stressy time!

So my current experiences are in that bucket.

What did you need to know?

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  #20  
Old 08-19-2012, 07:18 PM
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Hi there! My life partner and I are non-hierarchical polys with no veto. (Currently neither of us are seeing anyone else but we have in the past.) You can talk to me about this and feel free to PM me because I'm not very good at keeping up with threads.

Although we don't have any veto over who we date, we are ok with sharing our opinions and preferences. For example, not too long ago there was this woman my partner was interested in. She would give me dirty looks now and then (at least it seemed she was) and I told him that -- not to say he couldn't date her, but to let him know it would be awkward. He decided not to pursue dating her but that was his own decision.

In other areas of our relationship it's the same -- not rules but stating our preferences and considering each other's feelings. The only rule is practicing safer sex!
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