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  #11  
Old 08-11-2012, 05:14 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Wow.

Sounds like you working on a relationship agreement is SO needed here.

I'm glad you are doing it for yourself even if this particular relationship does not move forward. There's all kinds of communication haywire going on there.

I hope the Talk tomorrow moves things forward to some kind of resolution. And gets YOU at least, to a better headspace.

Pampering bath totally sounds like good selfcare right now

hugs
GG
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  #12  
Old 08-11-2012, 05:36 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Originally Posted by punkrockmomma View Post
@Opalescent - What can I say, short of a few things, the majority of what you said resonated with me. I will clarify on some points though.

My ex IS just watching carefully because as a mainstream person, this poly thing sounds creepy and he is making sure that his son is safe and well despite the weird stuff his son's mom is doing...

My male partner did hit on one of my closest friends, she thought he was joking and blew it off. Aside from that, I have a very young friend ( she's 19) who I have been trying to support during a rough patch. Meeting her was like an after school special - at a bus station moving to the big city with 400 bucks in her pocket. Lousy childhood etc. Well, she knows about my relationship, and somehow it was communicated that she was interested in playing with them ( outside of me ). My partners did ask me, and I said NO....then lost my shit completely on them shortly thereafter. They were angry as they said I made them feel really shitty for even asking, when normally it wouldn't be a big deal. I was relentless, I could have said no and let it go.
I'm going to respond to your post in chunks because I have not yet figured out how to do that cool quote, then response, then quote thing here yet.

I am so glad that your ex is just doing his parental due diligence. It sounded like that was the case from your post but I wasn't completely sure. It seems like if you handle your poly/kink stuff appropriately, he's not a problem. Great!

(An aside - I knew it! You're a mother hen! Good on you!)

As to your very young friend, I have a rule that I follow in my own life.
Here it is.

Don't fuck fragile.

If someone is vulnerable, even if they are of legal age and willing, I take a pass. So for example, if someone is actively struggling with mental health issues - during a full-blown manic episode for instance - I certainly would be their friend but I would not fuck them casually or start any sort of romantic relationship. I would not play with them in a kink context. (An ongoing relationship is a different dynamic - my rule is meant the context of initiating sex or a relationshp.)

If someone is young, compared to me, I consider if they are adult enough to have sex, or a relationship with me. The answer is sometimes yes, sometimes no. Youth by itself is not an automatic disqualifier (assuming legal age). But youth can sometimes indicate fragility, vulnerability, because of a lack of experience, or lack of self-knowledge. And, here is where I see why you lost your shit over your young friend. I'm assuming 'lousy childhood' means abuse or neglect. People who have been abused and are finding their way out of it as adults are often uniquely fragile and vulnerable. I am NOT saying survivors are weak or broken and I am NOT saying that enduring abuse always and forever makes one fragile or vulnerable. I have had sex with survivors but they worked hard to heal.

Yes, your young friend is an adult able to make her own decisions. But it sounds like she is pretty much alone in the 'big city' so to speak. That adds another layer of potential vulnerability. Your partners did nothing technically wrong in wanting to have sex or play with her. But to my mind, and how I live my life, they failed the 'don't fuck fragile' test. They seem to have failed to consider the situation of the person they wanted to fuck - who is she?, what's going on in her life?, could this hurt her?, or us?

Your partners seem rather impulsive. Maybe that is not completely accurate as I have only your words to go on. But it seems sometimes they aren't able to grasp their actions may impact someone else. They also seem unable or unwilling to consistently forecast or imagine the consequences of their actions, at least in regard to sex, or sexual/kinky relationships. Or they don't care about the consequences of their actions upon others? (If this is the case, run, don't walk for the exit! But I assume cluelessness and not outright viciousness.)
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  #13  
Old 08-11-2012, 06:12 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Originally Posted by punkrockmomma View Post
Boundaries:

No outside sex without protection.

Initially I said no close friends, but acquaintances are acceptable. I adjusted this boundary to say that all my friends are out of bounds, because this could be too confusing otherwise. Some are friends with my ex, I can't exactly be an ambassador for poly relationships if my partners are shagging my friends...

Full disclosure on all sexual partners. Our first kerfuffle erupted because of Fetlife. I have an account, but seldom use it. It's vague at best, because I am uncomfortable with sharing that kind of information online. They were encouraging me to use it. I got to find out via our profiles, that not only were they dating me, but someone much younger than me as well. I had no prior knowledge of this young un'. I disabled my profile, and said they had to tell me this kinda thing in person. I have made a mistake in not being more clear with this boundary though. I figured that this would mean telling me/each other first, if you're going to hump someone else. You don't have to ask permission, but you do have to tell me, whether it's a call, text etc. Nope. I am neither jealous or angry about this, as I failed to fully communicate what I wanted. My partners ( primarily my female partner ) seem to act as free agents, it's a go for it, and tell later policy. This policy is what lead to a meltdown for my male partner this weekend ( of which I was a participant)...hence why I have been trying to push for more boundaries since. When in Rome.... I did exactly what I have been encouraged to do all along, and it hurt him. I will never do it again, providing all this shit gets sorted.

These were the only boundaries up until last night, of which I started work on a relationship agreement... My female partner does not want to write me off, hence offering to write up a relationship agreement. My male partner is angry and stewing, we are talking tomorrow. In his words ' You and your friends do not think I am right for your needs/lifestyle.' My lady friend who he hit on just stopped by. She outright said I did not say that, I said that they are great people, but unless they are willing to create boundaries ( we are addressing behaviours, it's not an attack on character ) then this won't work. I made it clear to him that I lost my shit for the gazillionth time yesterday, because of a bold statement made by our female partner.

...

My male partner's response to our female partners statement was interesting " We have dreams that are unrealistic and unattainable at this time."

So very long story short, my partners don't seem to be on the same page with each other, let alone me. My relationship agreement is written, and we will see what happens...

I edited to add this....I do love my partners, but will do what is best for my son and I, so for any concerned people, please don't worry.
I was never worried that you would not do what is best for your son. Your love for him comes through very clearly.

Have you talked with them super explicitly about what using protection means for each of you? My safer sex is not your safer sex. My fluid bonding is not your idea of fluid bonding. (Look at the threads I started and you can read the stupid story on how I ran head first into this reality.) For example, lots of people get using condoms for PIV, but don't use them for oral sex. And there may be additional STI transmission concerns in kink, depending on what one is into. (How to clean toys, use a piece of rope only on one person if it is in the genital area, etc. Learn what you can.) It is critical that different scenarios are discussing and what to do in them is agreed upon. Otherwise, 'using protection' is too vague to actually protect anyone.

Are y'all fluid bonded? (There is much discussion of fluid bonding here btw.)

Friends ban seems reasonable - at least to this outsider! Especially as most of your friends are not actually in the poly or kink communities. You might be able to relax this if you make more friends in those communities. Or not. Depends on your comfort level.

It is clear that you love them and want to be with them. I hope they can do the work necessary to negotiate and work towards getting everyone's needs met. But that is hard work. It can mean compromises and sacrifices. Not fun. I agree with your close friend - you love them but love is not enough if they cannot work out some relationship agreements that work for all involved.

I'm also unclear as what the kerfluffle was exactly. You wanted them to tell you if they were thinking about or about to have sex with someone outside the three of you. They thought that mean tell you afterwards? Or never tell you? Or each other? (An aside. Are you sure these folks have the communication skills necessary to do poly well? Could they develop them if they don't have them now?) I would hate to ask permision of a partner before boinking someone else. That is just too possessive and controlling for my taste. Other folks work out different agreements. (When I was in a primary relationship, we did have a veto on each other's possible partners.) I would certainly want to know 1) if they had other partners - serious, committed or not and 2) if they were considering adding other partners. And I would prefer to know that information sooner rather than later. I personally would be open to negotiating a 'hall pass' if a partner was going to a kink convention or some such event where they could fuck like bunnies and not have to tell me beforehand. But that is something I do before going to said event/convention.

Also, it sounds like you and your female partner acted like free agents and then your male partner got hurt because you two acted like they always act like. (Ugh, did that make sense?) Is that right? This is similar to my previous post. If one is not willing to talk and negotiate boundaries, then one does not get to whine when unspoken, undiscussed boundaries are crossed that no one knew about. Say what you want and need. You may not get it but at least everyone knows the full situation.

And, yes, it sounds like they have much to talk about with each other, much less you or any other partners.

Good luck! I do hope things work out.
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  #14  
Old 08-11-2012, 07:07 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post

Don't fuck fragile.
THAT is awesome. I love it!!

Punk-you seem to be doing a good job working through things and your devotion to your son DOES come through loud and clear.
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  #15  
Old 08-13-2012, 01:21 AM
punkrockmomma punkrockmomma is offline
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@Opalescent..." Don't fuck fragile, is awesome." I am going to use that in the future!

Both my partners are willing to discuss my boundaries, they did like some of the suggestions that I put out there in regards to "play time". Events outside of our city, private engagements etc.

Yes, we are fluid bonded. I fully admit to not having been as explicit in terms of protection as you have detailed. I am going to read your thread, while I am quite aware of the many ways of STI transmissions, clearly I need a not-so-subtle kick in the ass reminder.

My male partner had an epiphany last night, about the definition of the relationship between him and our female partner...and now me obviously. Our particular relationship is poly, but they have an open relationship otherwise. I can engage other partners if I want to, whether it be for a relationship, or just sex.

Our kerfuffle over Fetlife erupted because at same time my partners updated their status to say they were dating me, was the same time they updated their statuses that they were dating someone else...of which they had told me nothing. It squicked me out. To think a dating status has progressed to the point of being updated online, without my knowledge was weird.

Here is the ironic thing about Pride night, and me my female partner acting like free agents. The gentleman in particular, is someone who I had unfinished business with. We were both smitten with each other, but our meeting was at a mutually bad time a year and a half ago. I saw him on the fb wall for the event we were all attending, and did speak of him to both my partners. I hated that we parted badly, and was really hoping we could be cool with each other again. I was vending on behalf of my business - he came rushing up to my table, and I dashed around it and we started yammering away. My female partner joined in on the action when we got to mine, til our male partner got jealous....my gentleman friend and I did nothing more than naked making out and hugging. We are both relieved and very happy to be part of each other lives again.

Okay, so here is the tricky stuff. My male partner and I have done a ton o' talking since last night. He feels that I passive aggressively fear monger, because I have difficulty being close with people. That I am doing much the same, with panicking about my relationship with my son, and the possible/ not possible realities of what could happen if someone were to follow through on misguided actions about poly and kink. That two months is far to early to be entertaining these thoughts. And that if the progression to all co-habitate ia decided someday, then we can discuss all the appropriate boundaries accordingly. I come from a family of addiction and alcoholism, I do often go to a place of loss, fast. I am also terribly protective of my life and stability, because I know what it's like to not have it. He does as well, since our life experiences are very similar. I hope he can learn to understand that when these panicky thoughts enter my head, he needs to acknowledge my feelings and then address the "logical" responses afterwards. Because when I am wound up and don't feel like I am being heard things escalate fast.

He and I are okay, but I left him with a lot to think about tonight. Because he has been busy surviving up until now, he has not given any thought to life plans. No one has a crystal ball, but to me is doesn't make sense to continue with a relationship, if you know you will never want the same things. It's like marrying someone who wants kids, when you don't, but never asking them that question. Then finding out six years in that kids were never in the cards, and being sad and disappointed with a relationship that will never fill your needs.

We shall see what happens.
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  #16  
Old 08-13-2012, 02:25 PM
punkrockmomma punkrockmomma is offline
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I had an interesting epiphany about my relationship(s) last night, after crawling into bed.

My male partner was very distracted after our conversation yesterday afternoon. In the two months we've been together he's divulged very little about his childhood, what his hopes/dreams/life goals are. He was progressively more quiet and distracted the more questions I asked.

I had a boyfriend many years ago who actually believed I wasn't very bright, because I had a tendency to keep conversations very superficial. He then realized it's because I had difficulty opening up and being close to people, it was my way of keeping them at arms length.

My male partner has not thought far enough ahead in terms of hopes/dreams and life aspirations, because he's scared shitless. To hope and dream about your life and what you want, means there could come a time when you may lose it. This is far too scary and devastating for him to think about. Or so it seems to me.

In turn, the reason why the relationship between my male and female partner exists, is because they ask very little of each other. He is the caregiver ( she has not been financially stable since they've been together), so he has a sense of control. Our issues are not arising because of a lack of boundaries alone, it's because I am asking them to be responsible to me. In turn, asking them to be responsible to each other. It's freaking their shit out.

Last edited by punkrockmomma; 08-13-2012 at 10:34 PM.
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