A question for female secondaries

[CielDuMatin]

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

I don't really have a problem with this method, and it also serves the purpose of easing the transition to poly for a girl who has no poly experience.

Hey, if it works for you, then more power to you. For the record, this guy tended to end up with women who had very little self-esteem and the relationships never lasted very long. He used to complain to me how he could never find the right kind of people. I tried to put out the cause-and-effect nature of his dating profiles, but he just didn't get it.

For all I know, he has since found what he was looking for and is blissfully happy - I (deliberately) lost touch with him a while ago.

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

So the big question is: Are there any women here who were introduced to poly by a guy who (1) already had a primary relationship and (2) announced that fact at the very beginning of the relationship?

I had two very functional and happy relationships that started out exactly that way - I was up-front right from the get-go. (I don't know why you are restricting it to just sexual relationships, but that may well be your paradigm.)

[Wolfwood]

Originally Posted by CielDuMatin

I had two very functional and happy relationships that started out exactly that way - I was up-front right from the get-go. (I don't know why you are restricting it to just sexual relationships, but that may well be your paradigm.)

That's great! May I ask you for some details about those relationships? Mainly, (1) how did you meet those women and (2) how/when did you tell them about your primary? Oh, and were you married and/or living with your primary at the time?

/In my humble opinion, sexual energy exchange between two (or more) people is what separates friendships from relationships. Therefore, the way I define things, "sexual relationship" is actually a redundant term.

-Wolf

[Emm]

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

Incidentally, the lie Ciel was referring to involved a guy who marked himself as single on an online dating profile. I think that is a somewhat forgivable sin.

I'd see it as a lie, and a big one at that.

I almost fit your criteria. I had only known there was a word for ethical non-exclusivity for a week or two when I got together with my married boyfriend. His OKCupid profile stated quite clearly that he was married, and while I probably didn't know any better at the time, if he'd hidden that only to tell me later I probably wouldn't have contacted him again.

[lovefromgirl]

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

Okay, my main question is, "at what point did your SO tell you about his primary poly relationship?"

I met them together and found out right then and there. It was pretty much, "So, the lady you're here with...?" "Yeah, my partner." "Cool!"

Then we emailed back and forth for a bit, and THEN I asked him if he fancied me.

We even had a dinner out all three together before anything happened in a couple setting, just to discuss.

[lovefromgirl]

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

That's great! May I ask you for some details about those relationships? Mainly, (1) how did you meet those women and (2) how/when did you tell them about your primary? Oh, and were you married and/or living with your primary at the time?

-Wolf

Uh, hi. I'm one of them. Should've made that obvious. And yes, they've lived together as long as I've known them.

For the record, I am skeeved as fuck by people who lie about their status. Anyone who tries to get me on their side by lying to me, even by omission, is someone I won't trust.

Also for the record, I've found it possible to feel romantically for someone without anything happening below the belt. I wouldn't be averse to a love like that. So.

[Cleo]

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

Well, to be fair to the guy, his method is effective.. especially if the girl has no experience with polyamory. That's partially the reason I started this thread. I wanted to hear stories of single girls (with no poly history) who met poly-guys (who have primaries) and dated them, knowing they were poly from the get-go. Are there any stories like that around here? It's easy to say, "guys should do this" and "guys should do that", but I'm more curious about what is effective.

-Wolf

effective, probably yes, if sex is what your looking for. I assume that it's easier to get a girl to sleep with you when she thinks you're single.
But, if you're looking for a real relationship I don't think not being upfront about your relationship status, is a good idea. I know I would stop dating a guy if he waited telling me about the significance of his other relationships until after a couple of dates (and 'implying that you see other people' would not be good enough for me). If the full disclosure happened after we had sex, I'd be really pissed.

I'm a secondary to 2 guys (well, I was until one of them broke up with his other GF). I met both of them on an online poly dating site. Both their profiles clearly stated what kind of other relationships they were in at the time. In the first email exchange we would always share a lot of info about our lives. Of course, because I already know about poly, I would ask all the necessary questions. A girl who knows nothing about poly will maybe not ask these questions and assume that a guy who is interested in her, is single. I think its the responsibility of the guy to tell her what the deal is.

For a year, I was 'casually dating' - lots of very short relationships, sometimes 2 or 3 dates that were mostly about sex, and even with those, I wanted to know the relationship status of the guys. Most of them were single, a couple of them in open relationships. But in that case, I felt it was my responsibility to ask. (There was one case where I did not ask. I chose not to. I later found out he had lied.)

[CielDuMatin]

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

That's great! May I ask you for some details about those relationships? Mainly, (1) how did you meet those women and (2) how/when did you tell them about your primary? Oh, and were you married and/or living with your primary at the time?

Actually, I wasn't including lovefromgirl in my count, since she knew all about poly when I met her, even though she hadn't had a poly relationship at that time. I was referring to people who were utterly unfamiliar with the concept when I met them.

To answer your questions:
1. I met one in person, sitting next to her on a long-distance flight. I met the other online, playing a game (Diablo II), and we became friends for a long while, since she was married at the time. It was a nominally monogamous marriage with a sort of DADT thing.

2. The first lady knew about my partner and poly by the end of the flight. The other knew I was in a relationship and poly well before we met in person, and before anything romantic happened.

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

In my humble opinion, sexual energy exchange between two (or more) people is what separates friendships from relationships. Therefore, the way I define things, "sexual relationship" is actually a redundant term.

Thanks for your definition - that certainly clarifies your language and paradigms. I have a very different view of romantic relationships and sex.

The big issue with lies of omission is that there can be mismatched priorities between two people. Assumptions are made based on those priorities and that can lead to trouble ("Well, he should KNOW that him being in a relationship already is important and should disclose that right up-front" vs. "I don't care what other relationships he is in, since this is about him and me."). So not being honest can potentially ruin something really good - a relationship based form the start on a foundation of honesty. I think that it depends very much on how much you value honesty and integrity in a relationship as to how to approach these things.

[opalescent]

It would piss me off if someone I was dating with hadn't told me they were married or in a primary-type relationship by or on the first date. I tell people in person or online that I am ethically non-monogamous. People don't have to be those things to date me but they need to know that up front. I need to know relationship status (mono, poly, single, partnered, open, closed - whatever the variation) so I can assess if I fit the bill for what this person wants and if they are what I want out of a relationship. I do not need to know all the sticky details of a relationship but I do need to know if someone is married or already partnered, or single, looking for a primary, not looking for a primary, etc.

[mercury]

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

Okay, my main question is, "at what point did your SO tell you about his primary poly relationship?" My primary-girlfriend (Kemie) and I have differing opinions on when it is proper to discuss this. I don't always feel the need to share intimate details of my private life on a first date with a girl. In fact, I tend to refrain from giving too many details unless I get the feeling it could turn into something more serious. My girlfriend, on the other hand, takes the opposite approach and lets guys know before any dating ever happens. I am looking for some real world examples of how other poly guys approach dating, specifically from a female perspective. So, without further ado, here are my questions:

Did you know your SO before you started dating?
At what point did he tell you about his primary relationship and was it before you both slept together?
Did you meet his primary relationship and, if so, at what point in the relationship did you meet them?

I'd like as many real examples I can get. I specifically want to hear from people who met their SO while online dating (I met most of my non-primary relationships via online dating). I've also been known to pick-up girls in bars and other social events.

If guys would like to chime in on how they approach meeting and dating secondaries, then that would also be helpful. What are your success stories?

Thank you for your time!

-Wolf (primary of Kemie)

I was a female secondary, and here's how it went down. We met on a dating site. He had himself listed as single and straight. There was absolutely no trace of his being in an open relationship on his profile. He and I talked online for two weeks, then he pushed for a coffee meeting. I said okay. Just before we went on it, though, I found out from a random look at a distant acquaintance's Facebook page that he was with her, was her boyfriend. On the phone just before our first date, I asked him about it. "Are you in a relationship with ____? Is it that you guys are in an open relationship?"

He said yes, they are, and that their plan was to tell dates on the first date. I have no way of knowing if that is true or not. It seems a reasonable plan, but you know, for all I know, he wasn't going to tell me for several dates, and only just told me because I found out beforehand.

I think what he did was okay (if he was in fact going to tell me on the first date, first thing). But NO LATER THAN THAT. Mind you, and that's only because our first date was within two weeks. I would never wait for beyond two weeks to tell someone something like that.

And technically, I think one should just have it on their profile in the first place. Don't waste people's time with your semblance of singleness when you're actually in an open relationship.

I've noticed that he's since changed his profile to reflect that he's in an open relationship. However, it is way, way down at the bottom of his page. There is tons of information about him that comes way before that last paragraph that says he's in an open relationship. I think most women aren't seeing it.

I happen to know that there was a girl talking to him recently who didn't know he was in an open relationship. She was told so by a friend of hers, and then she went back to this profile and saw it and said "Okay...no."

Not only should one mention it on one's online profile, but it should be at the top, where people will see it.

I think what it is, is that some poly/open people think they can talk people into the situation if they can just get an in-person date. And that's not a bad approach, really.

What happened in my situation is that I said "no thanks" after I found out he was in an open relationship, but then he said "I mean, we could just meet for coffee as friends..."

And he and I ended up hitting it off. It wasn't so much that he was irresistable or anything, though (however, he was very cute); I was also in a place of trying to get over a guy from before him. So I almost didn't care that I was getting into a messy situation; anything to get over the guy from before.

All this being said, I think people need to mention it right away. Most people can make the most objective decision before they even have a full date with you. If you're trying to lure them in with your personality and sex appeal, it may work (and that's to your credit), but I think it'd be more ethical for a poly person to just let the person make a decision based on whether they think poly is for them or not, completely free from your charms/sex appeal.

[WhatHappened]

Originally Posted by Wolfwood

Well, to be fair to the guy, his method is effective.. especially if the girl has no experience with polyamory. That's partially the reason I started this thread. I wanted to hear stories of single girls (with no poly history) who met poly-guys (who have primaries) and dated them, knowing they were poly from the get-go. Are there any stories like that around here? It's easy to say, "guys should do this" and "guys should do that", but I'm more curious about what is effective.

-Wolf

This is me: single, no poly history, who met a poly-guy with a primary and dated (still dating) him.

I knew he was married long before I started dating him. I would absolutely not have started dating him without knowing he had an open marriage/poly situation.

I think he and I are in agreement that it is to his benefit that I knew him, simply as a person, for several years before I knew anything unusual about his marriage. So I see where this guy gets his idea that it's more effective to let someone get to know him first.

BUT...and it's a huge but (no bad puns intended)...my situation is entirely different from someone totally unknown to me who asks me out on a date, letting me think he's single, and after that first date...or two...or three...says, Oh, by the way...I'm married. But she doesn't care. To me it would feel deceptive and very much like a bait and switch, offering me a single guy...one I might have one sort of future with...and when I like him, saying, Ha, just kidding, what you're really getting is a married guy and a whole new lifestyle you never even considered and absolutely no chance of that future you might be thinking of when you start dating.

My personal opinion is that a person having a primary partner is basic information that belongs at the forefront...as someone else said, at the top of a profile. It may be 'more effective' to hold that information back for a little while, but that doesn't make it right.