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  #21  
Old 08-07-2012, 10:10 PM
Sarcophagus Sarcophagus is offline
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I second guess my self. It's like "hey, I'm going to go ahead and be vulnerable and show you me, but oh, damn, something already feels wrong just in the fact that I don't expect to be reciprocated. Well, this is just awkward." It's a catch 22; to be comfortable with her in particular, I need to feel like she's actually interested. She's not very interested in a romantic or passionate way because I'm feeling so awkward and unappreciated that I can't just operate like I do with others.

Regarding her manipulative capabilities, it's not so much a fascination as it is something I just found interesting as a psychological study.

Last edited by Sarcophagus; 08-07-2012 at 10:13 PM.
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  #22  
Old 08-07-2012, 10:15 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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LovingRadiance, I'll do that. Maybe put things into perspective.

TheCubist: Exactly. And that's the bit that really cuts deep. She listens, and she's tried to be supportive, but when it comes down to it, she hasn't actually done anything to try and make this right to me other than that. Pretty much all I can do any more is bitch about the situation, and that doesn't help anyone.
There's so much I could say-but it's been covered so many times, especially so in my own blog.
Because I cheated and that is how we ended up getting to where we are now. But, I cheated with my best friend, who is a major part of our kids lives. There wasn't REALLY an option to remove this person from our lives even if I was willing to do that, because it would have destroyed our kids too.
So, in addition to me earning trust back, my boyfriend had to earn my husbands trust back AND we all had to figure out how to move forward together.
It hasn't been easy-not at all and we're certainly not the prototype for "perfect poly" if that even exists.
But, it's been almost 3 years (Sept. 25) and we're living together as a family with the kids and things are honestly going pretty well.

So-it IS possible.
But, I have to say-it's taken A LOT OF HONEST WORK on my part and on my boyfriends part to change our behaviors and attitudes AND
to re-earn trust AND
to work with some **Seemingly** stupid boundary limits AND
stay loving and considerate of my husband AND
really honestly, truly work to make amends for our past actions

in order to get to this place.
It's also required a LOT of work on my husbands part to forgive and move on.

None of that is easy.

I honestly can't say I would have made such major efforts if we hadn't already been married for 10 years and already had 4 kids in the mix. I probably would have bailed if we were less than a year in. And I KNOW he would have.
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  #23  
Old 08-07-2012, 10:28 PM
Sarcophagus Sarcophagus is offline
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That must have been one confusing mess.

That's something else that bugs me about this. I don't know this person. I may think he's an upstanding individual otherwise, and I may appreciate what he's done for her on some level, but I just don't really want anything to do with him.

Perhaps I should elaborate. She was in a very bad way before she left, feeling closed off and disconnected from everyone else. She felt she had to be a rock, an inhuman, "perfect" thing. As I understand it, this person was capable of breaking down her walls and drawing her out, making her comfortable with herself. I'm kind of frustrated that I had my head up my ass for so long that I couldn't even fix her, let alone myself.

So that's why he's so special to her. Watching them converse long-distance, I find myself having trouble wrapping my head around them. It seems he's into his own research and has attractions for others; as much as she may mean to him, I don't think he's pursuing anything permanent. If anything, he may see it as a special FWB thing.

Regarding her, I have no idea how she'd react if he went monogamous with someone else. I get the idea she's more interested in him than the other way around. He was there when she was most vulnerable. He was capable of "saving" her in her mind. It's definitely a strong source of attachment.
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  #24  
Old 08-07-2012, 10:35 PM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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Sar, I'm not focusing on her anymore. I'm focusing on you. Focusing on her too much is part of your problem.

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but oh, damn, something already feels wrong just in the fact that I don't expect to be reciprocated.
Low self esteem again

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Originally Posted by Sarcophagus View Post
Regarding her manipulative capabilities, it's not so much a fascination as it is something I just found interesting as a psychological study.
Not a fascination, just an interest? Same difference. You've got a catch 22 going on. That is - you're fascinated by the knife that cuts you - the manipulator who abuses you... the woman who cheats on you. Manipulation is a dark art. A part of you is drawn to it.

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Academic... Psychological study...
You live in the "safety" of you head. Your heart is where you will find your self esteem. Go there.


Add together living in your head and your fascination with the dark art of manipulation, and what do you get? The place you need to go to unwind the catch 22 that causes your low self esteem. Unwind it, see yourself for who you really are. See your fiance for who she really is, and let go of her. You think you know her, but you CAN"T SEE the real her through your stumbling. Your "stumbling" is you giving up your power to a manipulator just to watch the show you are so fascinated by. The problem is, you're in the show.

Last edited by snowmelt; 08-08-2012 at 02:56 AM.
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  #25  
Old 08-07-2012, 10:50 PM
Sarcophagus Sarcophagus is offline
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Sar, I'm not focusing on her anymore. I'm focusing on you. Focusing on her too much is part of your problem.
Point taken.

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Low self esteem again
True, but also based on a running track record.


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Not a fascination, just and interest? Same difference. You've got a catch 22 going on. That is - You're fascinated by the knife that cuts you - the manipulator who abuses you... the woman who cheats on you. Manipulation is a dark art. A part of you is drawn to it.


You live in the "safety" of you head. Your heart is where you will find your self esteem. Go there.


Add together living in your head and your fascination with the dark art of manipulation, and what do you get? The place you need to go to unwind the catch 22 that causes your low self esteem. Unwind it, see yourself for who you really are. See your finance for who she really is, and let go of her. You think you know her, but you CAN"T SEE the real her through your stumbling. Your "stumbling" is you giving up your power to a manipulator just to watch the show you are so fascinated by. The problem is, you're in the show.
This is fantastic insight. I do think you're focusing a bit hard on manipulation though. It is very present, certainly, but I don't believe I'm actively manipulated outside of her BS method of presenting it all to me.

It's difficult to stay calm, stay sharp enough to be objective. I'm a bit too ego-driven while feeling so downtrodden.
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  #26  
Old 08-07-2012, 10:59 PM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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I do think you're focusing a bit hard on manipulation though.
Me? No. She is the one focused on manipulation. I have been focused on trying to help you see it. It's a big part of your issue. Your catch 22. I do think you're starting to understand yourself better. Good talking to you kiddo. I hope you got something here that helps.

Last edited by snowmelt; 08-07-2012 at 11:02 PM.
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  #27  
Old 08-07-2012, 11:14 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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And when I say it's a riveting thing to see, I mean from an academic point of view. To operate like that, you'd need to understand how people work at their innate levels and leverage it with subtlety.
We call those folks sociopaths.

Dude, walk on. Deal with your own issues. Find somebody else.
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When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
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  #28  
Old 08-07-2012, 11:22 PM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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We call those folks sociopaths.

Dude, walk on. Deal with your own issues. Find somebody else.
Well put. I agree.
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  #29  
Old 08-08-2012, 02:47 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Sigh.

To grow self esteem, you must do esteemable things.

How is it esteemable to stay in a relationship you recognize as manipulative?

Painful as it is, I think you need to take a firm stand and end it and walk away. Begin healing process so YOU get to a better headspace.

And you mentioned other areas where you COULD be doing esteemable things -- getting out more, knowing your new home more, learning the streets, the places, etc. Your job pays the bills but does not ignite your passion -- what does? Be it a hobby or moving towards a new job -- growing some space for you passion to exist... all that stuff? THOSE are esteemable things.

Allowing yourself to stay in a position that heaps hurt upon your head because you fear being lonely or alone? That is not esteemable, and you end up feeling hollow and MORE lonely for being in company and not actually having connection.


Quote:
As I understand it, this person was capable of breaking down her walls and drawing her out, making her comfortable with herself. I'm kind of frustrated that I had my head up my ass for so long that I couldn't even fix her, let alone myself.
1) Don't believe what a manipulator tells you about her partner. She could be painting it in a flattering light so she looks good. It sounds better if he "touched" her somehow than if she stalkered him.

2) You cannot fix her. You can only fix yourself. We can't control other people. We can only choose what WE do.

3) Get head out of ass then. Do esteemable things to improve your own self esteem.

GL!
GG
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  #30  
Old 08-08-2012, 09:38 AM
Sarcophagus Sarcophagus is offline
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Thank you, all. This has sincerely been insightful.

I'm going to spend a couple of weeks away. Get my head straight before I make any final decisions.

I'd say I'd like to flirt around a bit, but I don't think it would be fair to anyone I might end up with while I'm lugging around this 5 gallon drum of baggage. Maybe later
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