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  #81  
Old 08-07-2012, 12:12 AM
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  #82  
Old 08-09-2012, 10:56 PM
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LOL, what to do with my bag of peanuts. Bear with me folks, I am not without sympathy ...

So, Daffodil, just so I am understanding right, the biggest problem you have here -- or the original problem -- is/was that your husband got involved with someone emotionally (rather than just sexually). It sounds like you signed on for kind of a swing situation, but ended up with a poly situation.

Re (from Post #73):
Quote:
"She's so beautiful, sexy, attractive, fun, energetic, full of love, life and energy. And I'm not. And he's drawn to her because of those attributes like a moth to a flame. So I try to be more of those things, but I'm not."
Thus the problem if this is a competition and he (if you're right about your perception of his feelings) likes her better. You can't be her, you have to be you. If he's going to choose only one woman, and will choose the one with her attributes, you're kind of out of luck; you can't be her, trying only gives you headaches and leaves you "behind in the race."

The focus here is on her positive attributes. But what about your positive attributes? Your own, unique positives? Positives that are different than her? Surely you believe you have some? Can you concentrate on enhancing those (your own) positives, and not so much about trying to copy her?

Re:
Quote:
"He says that he likes me for who I am. But really, then why is so attracted and in love with my polar opposite?"
Sometimes in polyamory it is the variety that is so attractive. I like pizza, and I like ice cream, but the two are very different kinds of food, and wouldn't blend well together if eaten at the same time! However, would I want to give one of them up? No, and why should I? (I know I know, I should give both up for health reasons, but that's beside the point.) They're both there, and they're both "willing to be in my life." I know that people are not food, but I am just using food as an analogy.

I sometimes get the impression that you just need your husband to slow it down a little with this new person. That he is exhibiting wild levels of NRE for her, and you are ending up alone more than you'd like to be. Is there a compromise somewhere in all of this? something that all three persons could live with? I'm just asking, as a question to ponder.

Re: boo-hoo for the hinge ... as one of the arms of a V, I have to say I feel like I'm getting the best deal, even though she (the hinge) is the one with "two guys, whoever she wants, take her pick." Actually she goes to great lengths to balance things between her guys, meet everyone's needs, and keep everyone happy. She doesn't necessarily hang out with "the guy she prefers at that moment." Sometimes, in fact, I think she gives so much of herself that it's arguably bad for her ... but then I am too selfish to complain about the situation, and would rather just appreciate it for what it is (as best I can).

I don't feel under-sexed or deprived of attention, but I will admit that it took a few years for us (our lady in particular, the hinge) to figure out what kind of schedule/proportions the two guys needed. And I'll admit that I had to calm down, ease down on the NRE, and get better at having "me" time instead of expecting her to be my full-time partner. So it took some time and trouble to get to where things are today, but I am content with where things are today. On the face of it, the hinge may appear to have "the best deal," but peeling the surface away, one finds that the hinge shoulders a lot of extra work/responsibility to earn what he/she has.

Unless ... unless the hinge person doesn't work very hard at keeping both "leg persons" happy, and remains focused on his/her own needs. Is your husband making a sincere effort to meet your wants and/or needs in this situation? Is he aware of how unhappy you are in the situation? Have you told him? If he is aware of it, what if anything has he done to try to help with that?

[continued below]
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  #83  
Old 08-09-2012, 10:56 PM
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[continued from above]

Re:
Quote:
"He thinks that I support this, but I don't. I do own him. And the fact that he hasn't left me yet already really proves that. But I know that it can't continue indefinitely."
Well, if that's true, then that's a sad state of affairs. It seems like sooner or later, you'll have to tell him: "Look, I can't do this. I need you to either leave this woman and be monogamous with me, or break up with me." On the other hand, if you never tell him that, and he believes it's okay to continue on like things are indefinitely, then you will have a life sentence as a very unhappy person. Are you sure that's the outcome you would prefer? I know you would prefer that he just dump her spontaneously, but I have a feeling that's an outcome that just isn't going to happen.

It's possible (not guaranteed, but conceivable) that you have more ability to live with this poly stuff than you believe you can. But I don't know if it's healthy to hide your feelings, pretending like the opposite is how you feel. I would suggest, not going on the attack per se, but being honest with him and just admitting that you're really unhappy with this whole thing. If you're afraid that he'll leave you if you say that, well, aren't you convinced he's going to leave you eventually anyway? Is it beneficial to delay that? This is the man that you love, and you seem to be brimming with resentment toward him, and full of hurt feelings because of what he's done (i.e., falling in love with this woman). How long can this kind of a life be the preferred solution? I know that question's a bit rhetorical, but I have to ask.

It's also possible that he's not aware of how his excitement about her (his NRE) is affecting you. I'm not saying he should pretend like she's boring or distasteful to him, but maybe he could take it down a notch for your benefit when you're around. Sometimes when people get caught up in NRE, they don't realize how they are hurting their original partner by their excited words and actions.

Re (from Post #74):
Quote:
"But I do know that he loves me, and I will hang onto that as long as I can."
Well, suppose things stay exactly like they are. Suppose that ten years from now, he still loves you, and is still with you, but is still also seeing her, and you're still in agony over the situation? or, is it possible that you could emotionally adjust by that time (or sooner, hopefully sooner)? Are there compromises that could help make this work? and if not, what do you do if things just "stay like they are" forever? What if he doesn't leave you, but doesn't leave this other woman, either? Will you still be pretending? Will you smile when you feel like screaming inside? Things might end up that way, unless you drive him away. I don't think you intend to drive him away, but you're also withholding the truth from him. He needs to know that this is very, very difficult for you. That this is not okay for you. If he doesn't know that, then things are likely to remain exactly as they are, and never change.

Your main fear seems to be that he is (maybe) going to leave you. But what if it's just as bad if he doesn't leave you?

I sense that you are feeling very helpless, and very victimized, in this situation. That you are straining to get more power over the situation, because you feel like all the power has been taken away from you.

You can't control other people's actions, but as long as you're "stuck" anyway, why not use the time to try to think of something you can do to make the situation better? Perhaps you'll need to vent more first before you can entertain any "supposed solution." I'm a big believer in the uncertainty of the future. We can't predict how we'll be, or what our situation will look like, ten years from now.

I just know that the way things are *right now* are making you visibly unhappy. The goal here would be to try to think of something that might at least reduce your level of unhappiness.

Suppose you make enough demands on him (and he assents) that she grows increasingly unhappy until she breaks up with him. Will you be happy with that outcome? Think carefully, you will have won a victory by being dishonest. Is love worth being honest? Are you willing to be honorable for the sake of your husband?

Something you should also be aware of, is that there's not always a primary/secondary structure (in poly). The V I'm in is one example of that, but there are quite a few similar examples. All three people in my household are primaries. There's no reason for anyone to "get the boot" because they were "lower on the totem pole."

Although, a secondary person doesn't necessarily "deserve to get the boot" just because they're secondary, either. They've invested a lot of their heart and soul into the situation. It's the nice thing to have some empathy for them (but only you can make that decision). What kind of world do we live in if none of us care how each other feel?

Re (from snowmelt, Post #76):
Quote:
"I know there are a lot of very good people trying to help Daffodil. I have tried myself. Every once in a while someone comes along who is not interested or ready for help. There is no reason for anyone to be on the receiving end of her abuse. I'm going to back away from this thread. I very respectfully recommend to all that you do the same."
Sigh, I don't mean to be disrespectful by continuing to post here. I have gone back and forth on whether to back away. I guess I am still deciding (though I realize some would say my decisionmaking is overly slow). Currently, I guess I am just getting a closer look at the situation, out of curiosity if nothing else, and yes, on the outside chance that something I say might help (later on, if not right now). I do a lot of continually giving the benefit of the doubt; I have been known to give too much in the past. It's something I do. I hold no one else accountable for that, and I know I've been duly warned. (If the thread gets locked, I will consider that an appropriate decision.)
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  #84  
Old 08-10-2012, 12:55 AM
Daffodil Daffodil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
LOL, what to do with my bag of peanuts.

It sounds like you signed on for kind of a swing situation, but ended up with a poly situation.
Thank you for the peanuts. I was hungry!

No, we started as swingers. We evolved into relationships with others. The problem isn't that he loves someone else, the problem is, he loves her and I can see him being with her rather than me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Thus the problem if this is a competition and he (if you're right about your perception of his feelings) likes her better.
He likes us both but he DOES like her better. I don't doubt that at all. He denies it but I know it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
The focus here is on her positive attributes. But what about your positive attributes? Can you concentrate on enhancing those (your own) positives, and not so much about trying to copy her?
Yes, I do have my own positive attributes. For one, I am far more educated and refined than she is. But otherwise, why not try to emulate her? That's what he prefers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
I sometimes get the impression that you just need your husband to slow it down a little with this new person. That he is exhibiting wild levels of NRE for her, and you are ending up alone more than you'd like to be.
He only sees her once a week. How much slower can that be? I won't be happy until that one time reduces to zero.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Is your husband making a sincere effort to meet your wants and/or needs in this situation? Is he aware of how unhappy you are in the situation? Have you told him? If he is aware of it, what if anything has he done to try to help with that?
I feel like I am repeating myself. Yes. He is doing all of those things. He is trying so hard to help me. But it doesn't erase the fact that he is in love with her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
It seems like sooner or later, you'll have to tell him: "Look, I can't do this. I need you to either leave this woman and be monogamous with me, or break up with me." I know you would prefer that he just dump her spontaneously, but I have a feeling that's an outcome that just isn't going to happen.
I wouldn't dare say those words to him. He's made it very clear to me that he will not leave her, he loves her very much. He also tries to reassure me that he won't leave me for her. I know I should trust that but it's tough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
It's possible (not guaranteed, but conceivable) that you could live with this poly thing?
I'm repeating myself again. Yes, I could live with it. I love someone else, my ex boyfriend ! He's loved another in the past but I was never worried that he'd leave me for her. She wasn't his type. And if he did, I had my boyfriend anyways. So who the hell cares? I just want this mistress gone. As I've said before, he'll get over it eventually. And, as I told him, wouldn't she be better off finding someone of her own to take care of her?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
It's also possible that he's not aware of how his excitement about her (his NRE) is affecting you.
Again, repeating myself. This is no longer NRE. They love each other.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Well, suppose things stay exactly like they are. Suppose that ten years from now, he still loves you, and is still with you, but is still also seeing her, and you're still in agony over the situation?

I sense that you are feeling very helpless, and very victimized, in this situation. That you are straining to get more power over the situation, because you feel like all the power has been taken away from you.
Ten years from now? Who cares? I only care about right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Suppose you make enough demands on him (and he assents) that she grows increasingly unhappy until she breaks up with him. Will you be happy with that outcome?
Who the hell cares about her? She is involved with a man who's committed to another woman. Obvioiusly she has no self respect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Something you should also be aware of, is that there's not always a primary/secondary structure (in poly). The V I'm in is one example of that, but there are quite a few similar examples. All three people in my household are primaries. There's no reason for anyone to "get the boot" because they were "lower on the totem pole."
If she thinks that she will be co-primary with me, she's sadly mistaken. The fact is, she is lower on the totem pole. She is his mistress and she needs to be reminded of that.


Thank you for your feedback but I'm tired of repeating myself.

I have been reading on here for a couple of years and I thought that I would finally register to ask other women in my situation how I can VETO this woman from my dear husband's life. I have gotten private messages with some advice, so thank you for that. I don't think I'm getting any further value from this. Lock it if you want. Keep your peanuts.
  #85  
Old 08-10-2012, 01:01 AM
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This is just the saddest thread.
  #86  
Old 08-10-2012, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
This is just the saddest thread.
Indeed
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  #87  
Old 08-10-2012, 08:54 PM
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Huh. Well, sorry if I made you repeat yourself, it's stuff I somehow missed the first time around.

Your husband has already said he intends to keep this other woman (this "mistress"). You could demand that he leave her, but would your demand carry any weight? Ultimately, you can only choose your own actions, you can't force your husband to go against his own will. Even in relationships that have a veto rule, this is the case. Someone has to agree to the veto when it is pronounced.

Whatever you do, e.g., however you go about pronouncing a veto, I would appeal to you to do it in some kind of way that's completely honest. Sure, you may not be concerned about this other woman's value, but there's your own self-respect to consider when deciding to be honest. I get that you're perhaps desperate to get rid of this woman without admitting to your husband that you want to be rid of her, but in this case it seems to me that being honest would be the more honorable thing for you to do.

Even if you decide pooey on my advice here and now, consider it for sometime later on. Although, it's also up to your husband to be fair and reasonable toward both women, it's up to his girlfriend to speak up for her wants and needs whatever they are, and it's up to him to listen to both of you.

As sad and disappointing as this thread may seem, it's worth something in my eyes in that it has shown a wide range of viewpoints on the situation. It's got some food for thought at least, for me anyway. Sorry if I dragged it out. For the record, I am saddened/troubled by the situation.
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  #88  
Old 08-10-2012, 09:30 PM
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Daffodil,
You come across as so very, very angry. If I were you, I would ask myself, "What does this anger and resentment get me?" I have a sense it is keeping you from feeling the depth of your pain to see yourself as superior to her. But it could cripple your relationship with your husband altogether. I would also ask myself, "Why am I okay sharing his body but not his heart? Why do I refuse to believe him when he says he won't leave me? What does feeling sorry for myself buy me? Why am I so scared that my husband loves another? " What do you fear? You say you "own him," but oh, my goodness, no - you do not. You only own yourself. So take care of you by loving yourself and not focusing on how to control or punish him and her. Your pretentiousness and smug sense of superiority are a cover. No matter whether she is in his life or not, he will still feel the way he does, so perhaps letting go of your anger and righteousness will ease your pain and let you find other ways to handle it.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 08-10-2012 at 09:45 PM.
  #89  
Old 08-11-2012, 05:37 PM
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Slavery has been abolished in every civilized country in the world. It is illegal (as well as immoral) for anybody to own anybody. The sooner some people face up to the reality of that, the better.
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  #90  
Old 08-11-2012, 05:43 PM
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Question 9 Pages - Really ?

9 Pages

Just wondering why this didn't move somewhere other then the Introductions Forums?

Just Me,
Tim
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jealousy, mono programming, need for therapy, ownership, pathetic, possessiveness

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