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  #21  
Old 08-04-2012, 12:57 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Originally Posted by monogamishSF View Post

@LovingRadience: what if it was the tight boundaries that made her feel trapped, and this is how it manifested? That's what she says happened. She says following the boundaries was fine until she was in the moment, and when she was alone with her OSO, in practice, she couldn't hang with my boundaries. And that made her feel controlled, and made her "snap" and that's how the mistake happened. Now, I feel totally justified giving her the same boundaries, but anything stricter would be suffocating since I already asked them not to sleep together yet. I'm afraid tightening the limits would land us in the same place. UGH.
In my opinion-actions have consequences.
If she felt like it wasn't hanging at the moment-she had a RESPONSIBILITY to say to the other person, "dude, I have to go talk to my partner, cause I really am wanting xyz, but that is NOT part of our agreement and it's important to me that I REMAIN TRUSTWORTHY to all of my partners by being upfront, honest and true to the promises I make."
Then take her happy ass home to address the issue.

She CHOOSE not to do that. She CHOOSE to do something that was not agreeable and she's RESPONSIBLE for RE-EARNING YOUR TRUST because SHE BROKE IT.

Now-does that suck? HELL YES!

I make a choice to have an affair.
I love my husband-at the time I had all sorts of rationalization explanations.
But-the bottom line is I LIED and I BROKE OUR AGREEMENT.

That has resulted in spending 3 years-yes THREE YEARS re-earning his trust and guess what...
it's not fully re-earned. Because its ALWAYS harder to REBUILD trust after its been broken.

Had I asked to be poly while trust was secure between us-there would have been a lot of work involved.
But, the fact that I broke trust-makes it MORE work.

That said-I'm not saying you should hold her back for 3 years.
I'm saying-she needs to respect that SHE LIED and SHE BROKE A PROMISE because agreeing to boundaries is making a promise.
Therefore, she doesn't have the same level of "privileges" within your relationship, because she doesn't have the same level of TRUST.

Much like a roommate-if they respect my space and property, over time they may be welcome to borrow my belongings without asking.
BUT if they steal from me or they break something and lie about it etc; they are not only going to lose the option of borrowing my things without asking, they're probably going to lose the privilege of LIVING WITH ME. But, even if I am agreeable to "trying to rebuild trust" and them continuing to live iwth me, I'm NOT going to allow them to borrow ANYTHING without asking-because they BROKE MY TRUST and THEY HAVE TO RE-EARN IT.

If on the other hand they borrowed something-and it got destroyed, but they came to me and told me honestly-I would be hurt or whatever about he destroyed object-but I would trust them MORE because they were HONEST with me.

So-in my opinion her "excuse" that it was too strict of a boundary, is bullshit.
Monogamy was too strict a boundary for me. BUT I HAD AGREED TO IT-and I owed it to my partner to tell him UPFRONT that it wasn't going to work and why so we could re-negotiate.
That's what adults do-they honestly, respectfully address their issues with one another so that they can renegotiate options that will work for everyone.

It's not adult behavior, responsible behavior, poly behavior, loving behavior, mature behavior or reasonable behavior to sneak around someones back, lie, break promises etc.
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  #22  
Old 08-04-2012, 01:14 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Of course it is ok to ask for a little time -- and honestly 30 days is FAST. It is not 30 yrs! Who needs "emotional flooding" experiences triggered? (You can google that.) Flooding is ugh -- That makes it hard to see clear. That's another type of brain cascade. We all need time to digest hard news.

Maybe reading the stages of grief could help you navigate this time. You are grieving a bit here. Even if not after a death of a loved one exactly.

Quote:
Now, I feel totally justified giving her the same boundaries, but anything stricter would be suffocating since I already asked them not to sleep together yet. I'm afraid tightening the limits would land us in the same place. UGH.
That's the long leash thing. That can come later when you get there. Don't jump ahead -- sort if you are even IN this still first. One thing at a time, please. You will be ok. Hang in there.

For the interim -- my limit?
  • It is see your person then. (Cause if they want to keep on cheating, they will! Why bother to hold back now? Grr. )
  • Just do not see them in front of me -- I do not need triggering. When you are with ME, be present with ME on our dates -- no texting, calls, etc on my date time! And don't rub your NRE joywheebliss in my face. Go tell your other friends. NOT ME. Treat me well NOW for having treated me bad THEN. Respect THIS new temporary limit of my needing emotional space that is drama free.

Cuz I'll be watching you to see how you treat me in the next 30 days -- like a muppet show or trying to play like honorable Jedi on respecting my LIMITS.

If I decide to forgive you and that I could be up for embracing Change and writing a NEW polyship contract?

THEN we get there when we get there. THAT is where we can talk about boundaries for the new thing. Not before.

First things first.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 08-04-2012 at 02:16 AM.
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  #23  
Old 08-04-2012, 01:33 AM
monogamishSF monogamishSF is offline
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so GG, you're saying I should give my blessing to let them keep hanging out? Right now that's not on the table, it's been two weeks since the incident and one since the break-off. But we will be in a situation tomorrow where we will all be together at a party that is important to us, so I can't be like... Don't talk. Cuz it will be awkward no matter what... Anyway just to clarify: you would say to your partber: keep seeing her, just keep it away from me. Yes? I feel like that would be my next step (was already considering it) but not until AFTER the 30 days.
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  #24  
Old 08-04-2012, 01:41 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Well, I just throw out something just to have something to talk it on. If you like the idea you can always adjust times and things to suit you.

It works either way.
  • 30 days for you guys to collect lost marbles and cool off.
  • Then ANOTHER 30 days to test her seeing sweetie and see if she plays like muppet show or Jedi.

OR
  • 30 days -- You collect marbles WHILE she sees sweetie AND you take notes to see if she plays like muppets or Jedi all along.

I would do the second option just to move it along faster. But I like to move faster. And I don't want to deal in extra potential drama of "dammit! I asked for 30 days no seeing and then if they go cheating AGAIN?!" Plunging me back into the abyss.

Ugh. That's more emotional risk to me than just throwing the door open and shining a light on the problem. BAM! There. See each other in the OPEN! In the Light Side of the Force! (Like you could have been all along without all this crap had you talked to me first!)

We are all different. It's on you what you can stomach. Go at the speed YOU to need to move.

Even 2 mos is NOT that long. Isn't the sweetie worth it? Aren't you? If the goal is a 3 person polyship framework that can FLY? GF ought to be able to hack a very reasonable 4-8 week processing time for a cheating Thing That Happpened. Sheesh. It's generous! Sometimes getting stuff from the DMV takes that long if not longer. (I joke to keep a heavy thing light -- I do feel your pain, but laughter helps with feel good brain cascades. Go see funny movies if you can.)

But breathe. And do not jump ahead. I know you probably want to be out of what I call "Hang Time at the Forge" because it feels UGH in there. Hot and squirmy and damned if you do, but damned if you don't.

But seriously? Hang. Just hang. This is important. But it isn't urgent. In fact, RUSHING got you here. It probably FEELS urgent. But it isn't. This is chess, not drag racing. Slow it the fuck DOWN. It is TOO important. Edge play of the heart.

But don't grind to a halt either. Move it along -- 30 days feels right to me. Another number might be better for you. Think on it, talk to your GF. But give it enough time to think and try some things, but not so long you all suffer endlessly in Hang Time.

Do your own self care -- talk to friends, take walks, get a massage, etc.

Enough time to cool off, but enough time to move it foward to the meta-goal of 3 people in harmonious relationship if this is what the goal IS. If that's not the goal -- check out now, save time. KNOW your own self here.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 08-04-2012 at 02:23 AM.
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  #25  
Old 08-04-2012, 02:12 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is online now
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I don't have specific advise but, like LR, I was the one that broke trust - so I thought I would share how that looked from my side. (Reading GalaGirl's excellent posts makes me think that I actually got a number of things right - after my initial screw up - I won't rehash the whole thing - you can read about the details in my blog.)

His first response was to say "Never see/speak with him again." OK. While I didn't think that that was likely to be the FINAL solution to the situation it was something that I could agree to "for now" or "for as long as necessary" or "forever if required." I suspected that he would change his mind but was willing to accept that the ban might be permanent.

When Dude tried to contact me I would listen to the voicemail/read the email, tell MrS that Dude had called or emailed, and delete the message. After the 1st week MrS asked me to tell Dude the situation and tell him not to contact me again. I did (with an apology that I had put him in this situation).

MrS said that he didn't know if he could stay married to me, if he could live in our house, sleep in our bed. I told myself that if in 1 year he was still unhappy, still hurting, then I would let him go without a fight. No one should be chained to an untenable marriage. But for ONE FULL YEAR I would do everything in my power to regain what I had broken. (Meanwhile, in actual fact, 1 year later we were 6 mos into our cohabitating polyship and each of us happy and invested in "making it work"...who knew?)

My challenge was how to support MrS through his period of darkness - him processing my betrayal of his trust AND mourning the lost of his best friend (Dude)- when I was the CAUSE of his pain. My approach was a mix of what I recalled from "The Ethical Slut" (I think - I can't find the section I am recalling) and some of the secular zen we both read. I just sat with him. In the same room...touching him if he could tolerate it. When he was in a place where we could talk my message was: "I know you are in pain. I know you feel I am the cause of it. I am sorry that I hurt you/that you are hurting. I can't undo what was done but I can sit here and share your pain, if you will let me."

10 weeks later Dude contacted MrS, MrS was in a place to listen, and the healing began....

*******

So, how does that relate to your situation? I don't think that asking for "no contact" for now is unreasonable if that is what you need. 30 days (as suggested above), 40 days/nights (someone on this site's ban on contact after a breakup - sorry I am blanking on who), 10 weeks, 1 year, whatever...

I think it is not unreasonable to say "I don't know how I will feel later but RIGHT NOW I can't tolerate you interacting with this person...I will let you know if that changes, but I can't guarantee that it will. Give me 3 months and then ask me again, but I might say 'no'. Can you live with that?"

If someone is not willing to give you 3 months to figure out where your head is? Then they aren't making an effort in my book. At the end of the 3 months if you can't tolerate them seeing the other person, and they can't tolerate NOT seeing the other person - then you break up. No harm, no foul. You both tried.

Jane ("no-answers-here")Q
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Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe

Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 08-04-2012 at 03:03 AM.
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