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  #21  
Old 07-27-2012, 04:32 PM
RagingBibliophile RagingBibliophile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmelt View Post
Everyone who has replied to this thread so far has given you solid information. Run with it.



You are married to the person he is now. Not the person he used to be.




You're kidding me, right? Drugs have nothing to do with it? Wake up girl!



You give your family the person you are. If you're happy and strong, you give happiness and strength to your family. If your miserable... you give misery. Which one do you think is best? Your first job is to do FOR YOU what you need to do FOR YOU, even if that means ending it with him. This will get you a lot closer to being able to give your kids your happiness and strength, instead of your misery.

Staying with someone who uses drugs tells your kids its ok to use drugs. Is that what you want to teach them? My personal opinion about alcoholics and druggies is they care about no one.
pardon, I think i gave the impression that he does it all the time. He uses it recreationally, when he's out with his friends. and i think I worded it wrong up top. drugs helped to change him, but they were only a part of it. Not "drugs made him an entirely different person", but I think that it did affect him.

and i am running with this information. i've started reading up on the sites that I've been given. I've only really had time to skim over them, and will read them in depth when my kids get to sleep tonight (summer vacation is chaos!)

And in order for me to be happy and for my family to be happy, I want to resolve this. i want to come out of this and use my experience in a positive way. That's why I came here. And you all have been very helpful. You've given me perspective, and information that i can use. i definitely appreciate it.
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  #22  
Old 07-27-2012, 05:10 PM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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Originally Posted by RagingBibliophile View Post
pardon, I think i gave the impression that he does it all the time. He uses it recreationally, when he's out with his friends
So what? You have a very casual attitude about drugs. You're teaching your kids that same casual attitude right now. Is that what you want to do? I've never seen drugs affect people in a positive way. That includes smoking and alcohol. Employers screen for it, people make less intelligent decisions with it.

Just because your husband uses it, ahhem... recreationally, doesn't mean your kids will stop there. I'm not buying your "no big deal" attitude. Your future problems may be bigger than you think.

Last edited by snowmelt; 07-27-2012 at 05:17 PM.
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  #23  
Old 07-27-2012, 05:36 PM
RagingBibliophile RagingBibliophile is offline
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Originally Posted by snowmelt View Post
So what? You have a very casual attitude about drugs. You're teaching your kids that same casual attitude right now. Is that what you want to do? I've never seen drugs affect people in a positive way. That includes smoking and alcohol. Employers screen for it, people make less intelligent decisions with it.

Just because your husband uses it, ahhem... recreationally, doesn't mean your kids will stop there. I'm not buying your "no big deal" attitude. Your future problems may be bigger than you think.
i personally don't use drugs. I've done them once or twice, and thought, meh. They were not a problem if he did them every once in a great while, while he was out camping with friends, etc. I do not condone doing them around my children and nothing has ever been done around my children.

However, when he is using them as a crutch, then it becomes a problem. If I treat them casually, I was raised that way. My mother only once had a talk about drugs with me, saying it was ok to try some of them, but to use them safely, and it was better if I didn't. It was never a big deal in my house, so I never felt like certain drugs were a big deal in any sense, good or bad. I have a living example of how addiction is and what to stay away from; my aunt, who uses heavy stuff like meth, crack, cocaine, pain pills. I know what addiction is and how it poisons.

So, while I believe that the drugs have something to do with his newfound lifestyle, I think that there are other factors playing into it. My original thought was "I don't want to downplay the effect that they had on him, but I don't think that they're the only cause."

And yes, I have had a talk with him about them. I even talked to the Other Woman about him on them, and we compared and contrasted. I've wanted to see some type of counselor with him, as a couple, for a while now, and we've found someone we both think is a good choice, so we will be looking into it. Your concerns are valid, and while I don't think that occasional usage of some things are bad, I certainly don't advocate them as a way to solve your issues and I definitely will not be advertising them to my kids in the future. Hope that made it a little bit clearer.
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  #24  
Old 07-27-2012, 06:28 PM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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I'm going to say a few more things, then I'm going to move on. I know your going to live the way you see fit. Part of that way seems to be your casual attitude about drugs. In my opinion poly is a different subject than drugs. It's also my opinion that drugs promote bad behavior, which makes the honesty and intelligent choices poly requires harder to achieve. One does affect the other is some ways.

The final points I have to make are:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingBibliophile View Post
If I treat them casually, I was raised that way. My mother only once had a talk about drugs with me, saying it was ok to try some of them, but to use them safely, and it was better if I didn't. It was never a big deal in my house, so I never felt like certain drugs were a big deal in any sense, good or bad.
She passed it on to you. You're passing it on to your own kids. See the pattern? Doesn't have to be that way. I gave you my opinion.That's it for me on this thread, unless you show signs of wanting to get to a better place instead of just rationalizing everything.

I wish you well - Snowmelt
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  #25  
Old 07-27-2012, 07:19 PM
RagingBibliophile RagingBibliophile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmelt View Post
I'm going to say a few more things, then I'm going to move on. I know your going to live the way you see fit. Part of that way seems to be your casual attitude about drugs. In my opinion poly is a different subject than drugs. It's also my opinion that drugs promote bad behavior, which makes the honesty and intelligent choices poly requires harder to achieve. One does affect the other is some ways.

The final points I have to make are:



She passed it on to you. You're passing it on to your own kids. See the pattern? Doesn't have to be that way. I gave you my opinion.That's it for me on this thread, unless you show signs of wanting to get to a better place instead of just rationalizing everything.

I wish you well - Snowmelt
I do understand where you are coming from. And I thank you for your opinions. I do not do drugs because I choose not to, not because I've been shielded from it. So I'm thinking that my mother found a decent way. I'd rather my kids experience it in safety and with knowledge if they ever decided to do it. Of course I will try to talk them out of it, and warn them of the dangers and consequences.

As you've pointed out, I'm a little blase about CERTAIN substances. Not all. There is a difference. I'm not blind to the effect that it has on any relationship, when used constantly, or as a crutch in dealing with certain things. As I mentioned in my previous post, he and I have agreed to try some kind of counseling, so that we CAN move forward.

Also, to him, he is very largely into the rave community, with free love, which encompasses the drugs and freedom and pseudo-spirituality and poly-relations of a sort. And that is why I'm on this site, to find out the differences and the similarities. I'm really not sure that he is actually poly at all, or he would give more thought on this.

I'm sorry if my posts are jumbled or if I seem to flounder. It's hard for me to make the words come out right sometimes, with my head all fogged up with everything. I think you see me as wishy washy when it comes to some things, but I am attempting to be as honest as I can.
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  #26  
Old 07-27-2012, 07:39 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Hi Raging B,

That's awesome that you're checking into a couple's counselor.

Did the beginning of his drug use coincide with any kind of mid-life crisis he may have been having?

Re (from RagingBibliophile, Post #8):
Quote:
"That's why I've come here, because whenever I ask questions, he gives me the run around, or spouts out this ... pseudo spiritual stuff that leaves me opened mouth."
In case you haven't tried this, let me advise asking him clear, direct, inescapable questions. And if he still starts answering philosophically, call him on it and say, "You're evading the direct question. Just answer me on the terms that I asked."

He seems to be coming from a place that, "Poly is good," and fixated on that idea, rather than acknowledging, "Poly isn't good for everyone," and thus he is evading the questions. Attempt a little "verbal judo," and see if you can't get him, well, cornered in a place where he has to answer you plainly and directly, rather than float off on some philosophical rant.

What you really need to do is figure out what you and he can both live with. If there is no intersection between those two sets, then you are left with some hard decisions to make.

I sympathize with you. You are in a tough spot.

Re (from RagingBibliophile, Post #25):
Quote:
"He is very largely into the rave community, with free love, which encompasses the drugs and freedom and pseudo-spirituality and poly-relations of a sort. And that is why I'm on this site, to find out the differences and the similarities."
Ah, the dream of all humanity being ready to share romantic love as freely as friendly love. Who knows what but we, as a species, may arrive there someday. But we're not there yet.

Somewhere, you need a middle ground between what you are offering as specifics, and what he is offering as generalities.

I encourage you to find a mutually benificial compromise if you can.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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Love means never having to say, "Put down that meat cleaver!"
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  #27  
Old 07-27-2012, 07:55 PM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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I basically said goodbye on my last reply because I thought you were getting defensive. I didn't want to argue. I come here to try to help. I can't help someone who is defensive. It also just not fun talking to someone who is defensive. You seemed to have backed off that. I appreciate your sincerity.


I keep forgetting to tell you something. I know you don't do drugs yourself, but allowing your husband to do it shows your kids you're fine with it just as much as if you were doing it yourself. I said that because I forgot to earlier. Now you know my opinion on your husband's drug use. I don't have to keep saying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingBibliophile View Post

Also, to him, he is very largely into the rave community, with free love, which encompasses the drugs and freedom and pseudo-spirituality and poly-relations of a sort. And that is why I'm on this site, to find out the differences and the similarities.
To me spirituality is partly about looking within myself to find my own truth, and encouraging others to do the same for themselves. My sixth sense, if you will, works best when I help my body take care of itself by eating as healthy as I know how to, and trying to live as balanced as I can. It's working well for me.

Living this way has to benefit me, as well as all the people in my life I affect through the things I do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingBibliophile View Post
I'm really not sure that he is actually poly at all, or he would give more thought on this.
You make a very good point here. Maybe your husband is trying to get some "out of this world" type of experiences, and he is looking for others who will encourage him as he tries? That is a wild guess on my part. You know him and I don't. As I said to someone who used to be a friend of mine - while I'm here in this world, I want to do things that give me the best chance of actually being here in this world.

That's why I do my best to eat well. I think the "other places" we all can go are interesting to think about, and even learn about. While I'm here, it's best to be here. That goes for mono, poly people, and everyone - just my opinion.

Last edited by snowmelt; 07-27-2012 at 08:08 PM.
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  #28  
Old 07-27-2012, 08:25 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Well, if he's looking for transcendant sex, in a hard swinger context? I dunno how well THAT'S supposed to fly.

I agree. Pin his booty down. None of this verbal avoidy sparring. STATE YOUR WANTS, NEEDS, LIMITS.

When he floats off all avoidy do the flip and restate.

"You are saying blahblah. Please be clear and direct with me. I am hearing that you looking for me to be ok with you having a hardswinger sideline going. Is this correct? And you plan to be doing this how? every Fri nite?"

Pin it the freakin' flip DOWN.

He has to offer you a new relationship contract then, articulate what he's after. Because he's not honoring the contract you are on now. He's breaking previous agreements.

If he's the one wanting to go poly? Give me your contract in writing, one page front side.

Want, needs, limits, goals/reason to do it for.

I will consider and bring my own contract out. We can take it to the mat and see what can be negotiated or not.

Crap contract? Check out. He's not for reals.

Decent effort, needs polish? You actually willing to go there? How does it jive with what YOU want in your current rship contract? Not a love match any more? Check out.

I keep saying the same thing to you from different angles to see if any of that can aid you.

But if he's squirming around and refuses to play ball in turn about fair play? That tells you all you need to know. He will ALWAYS do that. Check out and spare yourself the agony of living with a "have my cake and eat it too" personality. Ugh.

It just gets FRESH.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 07-28-2012 at 02:36 AM.
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  #29  
Old 07-27-2012, 08:54 PM
RagingBibliophile RagingBibliophile is offline
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Thank you guys. I've got the sites that you guys have given me, and I have skimmed over them, to read more in depth when I get a moment to myself (summer vacation, please school, start!!) so that I can come up with a list of questions. I think the thing that I need to improve upon is that I start getting very frustrated when he responds to my questions in the ways that I've explained. I then come off as the irrational one, because I get so worked up. So my resolve is to keep cool when I talk to him about it. Which will be hard, but it must be done. I'm so grateful for the help I've been provided on here, it's been exactly what I needed. I'll update my blog in the next day or so to show how our conversation went.
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  #30  
Old 07-28-2012, 02:38 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
I think the thing that I need to improve upon is that I start getting very frustrated when he responds to my questions in the ways that I've explained. I then come off as the irrational one, because I get so worked up.
Mind games. That's speakoutloud tactics section 1, 2, and 10.

Gaslighting fun. (NOT!)

Hmmph. I am not impressed.

GG

(PS: Please tell me to tone it down and back off if I lose my grip on this one. The "avoidy nambypamby" issue is a VERY triggering one to me. *frown* )

Last edited by GalaGirl; 07-28-2012 at 05:51 AM.
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