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  #11  
Old 07-27-2012, 02:15 AM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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Originally Posted by RagingBibliophile View Post
That's why I've come here, because whenever I ask questions, he gives me the run around...
The more you read about poly, the more you'll notice the best advice always starts with explaining how important it is to be honest with yourself and others. That seems to be the hard part for a lot of people. That's where it all starts. That is the foundation. Without that, you might as well be trying to drive a car blind.

From what you said, your husband doesn't want to tell you the truth. Until he decides he wants to be honest with you about who he is and what he really wants, adding more people won't bring you closer. It'll tear you apart. The best thing both of you can do right now is focus on why he wants to give you the run around.

Poly is not the answer to a troubled mono relationship. Fix the mono relationship first. Best medicine - honesty. If he can't get to the place where he can be reliably honest with you, then poly is not the question or the answer. At that point, I would say maybe its time to think about moving on with your life.
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  #12  
Old 07-27-2012, 02:49 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I have to agree.

I consider monogamous marriage a closed polyship of 2!

The rules still all apply --
  • honest communication being vital.
  • everyone holding up rights and responsibilites they agreed to in their polyship framework
  • Being honest with ONESELF first, then the partner

I always marvel people want to jump into polyships of greater number, and deal in greater polymath and polysaturation points when they haven't even mastered the polyship of 1.

You relationship to YOURSELF. If you cannot be honest to yourself how can you ever get to NAME you wants, needs, and limits in a real way? Articulate, bullet list and package up into "sharable" mode instead of fuzzy murky?

Much less share them CLEARLY with another partner?

Much less share them with MORE than one?

*head boggles*

Quote:
From what you said, your husband doesn't want to tell you the truth. Until he decides he wants to be honest with you about who he is and what he really wants, adding more people won't bring you closer. It'll tear you apart. The best thing both of you can do right now is focus on why he wants to give you the run around.
Eh, I know that answer. He wants to do the run around because there's something there he does not want to articulate, air out, and OWN.

I rather have an honest person telling me "I want to be selfish" from the get go. Hell, I may even choose to play there if I'm in a selfish mode too and I'm seeking a FWB thing with no strings because I want to process on my own but still have a warm body to play with. Sometimes we need what we need. But I want it honest, not nambypamby.

That just drives me up the freakin' WALL. I can't hope to get what I want, if you are selling false wares. I can't hope to give you what you want, if you won't tell me what it freakin' IS.

Play ball RIGHT, or just don't play with me at ALL. Don't waste my time. I can respect you still even if the dance cards don't line up. But UGH. Ethics, please!

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 07-27-2012 at 02:58 AM.
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  #13  
Old 07-27-2012, 04:37 AM
RagingBibliophile RagingBibliophile is offline
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Yeah, I know. It's been making me want to beat my head against a brick wall. Him and I have both made mistakes in being totally honest with each other, and have learned to regret it. Or so I thought. And I believe that a lot of these... issues of his stem from an extreme lack of self confidence, as he really just wants attention. That is basically what he seeks. He wants attention for himself. And like you said, you have to work on your relationship with yourself before you can have it with even one other person. And if you can't have a relationship with one person, what is it that is going to make it easier with two people, or three? That's really what has me grinding my teeth. The whole experience has somewhat been soured for me, seeing as how I'll be paranoid if they're meeting behind my back or plotting or even having freakin' BABIES, until he can prove that he is being honest and trustworthy. Argh!
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  #14  
Old 07-27-2012, 11:28 AM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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The more I read your words, the more I see a frustrated woman trying to convince her immature husband to grow up. No one comes into this world mature and self aware. It takes time to get there. He's going to grow up at his own pace and for his own reasons. The real question for you is do you want to be in a relationship with him while he's deciding if, when, how and why he wants to grow up? The world is full of people to connect with. Peace and balance is a good thing to carry around on the inside. There are people out there who know that because they have that inside.

If you are "desperately" attracted to him, even with his dramas, then I would say the only real question you need to ask is why that is, and the only person who has that answer is you. I know it's very frustrating to be in your situation. He is going to grow up for his own reasons. The reason you want him to grow up right now is so he can make the relationship a happy place for you to be. Its a very rare thing for things to work that way. Asking him to grow up for that reason is your way of asking him to do your emotional work for you. Keep in mind also, that if you are "desperately attracted to him", that desperation is your drama. You bring that drama into the relationship. It will get in the way of the "happy place" your trying to create with him. It's much easier, more realistic, and much more healthy to take your attention off trying to get to that happy place with him. Put your attention on creating it for yourself, in your own life. If he wants to come along and be a part of it, drama free (honesty), he can. If not, you're creating it for yourself anyway, because that is where you want to be.

I know its a lot to absorb. It's important for you to understand this stuff. It's good raw material to use to make intelligent decisions.

Last edited by snowmelt; 07-27-2012 at 12:19 PM.
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  #15  
Old 07-27-2012, 02:15 PM
RagingBibliophile RagingBibliophile is offline
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He's not the only one who needs to grow. I'm still trying myself. I don't think anyone is ever done "growing up." What I'm so frustrated by, is the way he changed and how swiftly. These issues have come on in the last two years. Before that, there was no hint of this.

Two years ago, though, he started experimenting in the usage of lsd, and when I asked around some acquaintances who are familiar with the drug, they said that it can alter you. Now, I'm not saying "Drugs did it!" because thats far from the truth, but I think it had an influence. Anyways, my point is, I'm frustrated because it seems like this all has come out of left field. I'm not so "desperately attracted" to him that I don't see his flaws. I love him very deeply, and I have kids with him.

I try to make the best decision for the family as a whole, because to me, that is what is most important. It's hurtful to think about the fact that he put himself first for a very long time when he claimed that family was the most important factor as well. I try not to bring unnecessary drama into play, and it's hard. I do want to scream to the world that I don't seem to matter to the person I want to matter to the most.

I love my husband, despite the stuff that he has pulled. I can't predict what will happen next, maybe I will have to strike out on my own, which is a very scary thought indeed. I... think I put in pertinent information, but I can't seem to wake up, so it could just be incoherent babbling...
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  #16  
Old 07-27-2012, 02:15 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
And I believe that a lot of these... issues of his stem from an extreme lack of self confidence, as he really just wants attention.
That's what I thought too.

He parks his self esteem in other places and he wants the strokes/attention to feed/feel it rather than sit his booty down to look inward because he doesn't want to park it there.

Could choose to REALLY work on the self esteem thing and learn to validate HIMSELF so he can be his own self esteem generator instead. But doesn't at this point. Not ready to go there -- I have no idea what baggage he's carrying.

(Frankly, I don't care. You are both still internet strangers to me but so far I see you doing the hard work of personal growth, so I'm more sympathetic to you. I know it burns. Hang Time at the Forge. And here you are, trying to suck it up and roll. Kudos, BTW!)

You build self esteem by doing esteemable things. In this case -- owning your own freakin' bag no matter what it costs you, being a person if integrity, a person of your word.

Making honest, deliberate intentional choices, and OWNING the consequences of the choice(s) you made!

Not running away from the "feels uncomfortable" that goes with taking a real stand on something. Not flying willy nilly by the seat of your pants.

Changing from "I want everyone to like me all the time" to "I want everyone who matters to me to like me most of the time, and forget about the rest! They can like me or not like me, I do not care for they do not matter most to me!"

I hope for his sake he's ready to own his own bag. It's not going to be fun Hang Time for him. He's been putting OFF and putting OFF so his Hang Time will thus be all the longer. But better now than never. He's making himself his Morley's chain and sooner or later he'll have to wear the burden.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 07-27-2012 at 02:21 PM.
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2012, 02:39 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingBibliophile View Post
I love my husband, despite the stuff that he has pulled.
To quote Tina Turner, "What's love got to do with it?" She loved Ike and he beat the shit out of her.

I have learned the hard way that love is simply not enough to sustain a happy relationship. Repeat this to yourself several times a day: "Love is not enough!"

The cold hard fact is that there needs to be mutual RESPECT, CARING, HONORING ONE'S WORD, HONEST COMMUNICATION, and LOVING BEHAVIOR to sustain a relationship and have it thrive and succeed. And by succeed, I mean bring all parties satisfaction, fulfillment, and a sense of being "home."

If those aspects are missing, then you have a choice to make.

If your partner feels that sticking his dick in other people is more important than giving you the RESPECT, CARING, HONOR, HONEST COMMUNICATION, and LOVING BEHAVIOR you deserve as his steadfast partner, to whom he made a commitment, then you have a choice to make.

If you consent to poly, then you need to make sure in no uncertain terms that he acts and treats you with RESPECT, CARING, and HONOR, and makes a 100% effort to HONEST COMMUNICATION and LOVING BEHAVIOR or out the door he goes. Or out the door you go (with your head held high).

There are worse things that can happen than splitting up. And I say that as someone who thought my divorce was literally reason enough not to exist anymore. Devastating, totally. But one can get through it and there are worse things. One of those worse things would be staying and tolerating disrespectful treatment.

If he has no interest in being a grown-up and getting real, why the hell stick around? Remember the mantra: Love is not enough! Love is not enough! No matter how much you love someone, you are nobody's doormat.
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Last edited by nycindie; 07-27-2012 at 04:14 PM.
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  #18  
Old 07-27-2012, 02:43 PM
RagingBibliophile RagingBibliophile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post

(Frankly, I don't care. You are both still internet strangers to me but so far I see you doing the hard work of personal growth, so I'm more sympathetic to you. I know it burns. Hang Time at the Forge. And here you are, trying to suck it up and roll. Kudos, BTW!)
Haha, this made my morning! Thank you. I still have a lot of growing myself to do. I should probably add to the blog my own faults, especially as I've accepted my, albeit admittedly small, part of the problem. I am a very disorganized person. I am horrible at cleaning. I was never, ever meant to be a housewife. I'm used to have someone there with me while I clean to talk to (big family), or being able to play music loudly (oldest son is autistic, so he gets upset when I play loud music).

So when I'm depressed, I don't want to do squat. So I know that i'm not blameless, but as you said, I've been working on my own personal growth, and trying to come out of this a ... stronger person, if I can't be a better one. And while my self-esteem isn't where it should be (I took a pretty critical hit with this), I'm trying not to use others to determine my self worth... I've got a lot of reading ahead of me, which, luckily, I enjoy. I appreciate you guys giving me advice that I can actually use, and research.
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  #19  
Old 07-27-2012, 03:11 PM
snowmelt snowmelt is offline
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Everyone who has replied to this thread so far has given you solid information. Run with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingBibliophile View Post
What I'm so frustrated by, is the way he changed and how swiftly. These issues have come on in the last two years. Before that, there was no hint of this.
You are married to the person he is now. Not the person he used to be.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingBibliophile View Post
Now, I'm not saying "Drugs did it!" because thats far from the truth.
You're kidding me, right? Drugs have nothing to do with it? Wake up girl!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingBibliophile View Post
I try to make the best decision for the family as a whole, because to me, that is what is most important.
You give your family the person you are. If you're happy and strong, you give happiness and strength to your family. If your miserable... you give misery. Which one do you think is best? Your first job is to do FOR YOU what you need to do FOR YOU, even if that means ending it with him. This will get you a lot closer to being able to give your kids your happiness and strength, instead of your misery.

Staying with someone who uses drugs tells your kids its ok to use drugs. Is that what you want to teach them? My personal opinion about alcoholics and druggies is they care about no one.

Last edited by snowmelt; 07-27-2012 at 03:18 PM.
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  #20  
Old 07-27-2012, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingBibliophile View Post
I should probably add to the blog my own faults, especially as I've accepted my, albeit admittedly small, part of the problem. I am a very disorganized person. I am horrible at cleaning. I was never, ever meant to be a housewife . . . So when I'm depressed, I don't want to do squat . . . And while my self-esteem isn't where it should be (I took a pretty critical hit with this)
Your husband's behavior and treatment of you rests solely on his head, and no matter how sloppy a housekeeper you are or how disorganized a wife, you do not deserve to be treated like shit. Yes, I do believe that each person in a relationship is 100% responsible for their part in it. It ain't 50-50. We're all whole people with full responsibility for our lives. But perhaps the part you played, that you are responsible for, was your acceptance of his behaviors or overlooking them just to hang on to the marriage. It certainly isn't that you were a bad wife. Puh-leez don't do that to yourself. He chose to lie and cheat, you didn't force him to do that. He just as easily could have made a different choice, like coming to you and talking about his dissatisfaction, or going to therapy to address whatever hole he's trying to fill up inside himself by dishonestly sneaking around to fuck someone else without your consent.

"Critical hit" -- is it really any wonder you've been depressed? Dear woman, you need to open your eyes, see his douchebag actions for what they were, let yourself feel your anger about it (you can't "get rid of it" without letting yourself experience it first), stop blaming yourself, stop making excuses for him, and draw the line.
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Last edited by nycindie; 07-27-2012 at 04:40 PM.
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