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  #11  
Old 07-24-2012, 10:08 AM
km34 km34 is offline
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Something to keep in mind when thinking about going down this path is whether or not you want to be a part of cheating. Because that's what it is. Polyamory in its most literal definition is simply loving more than one, but in reality it entails more than that - it entails the desire for ETHICAL nonmonogamy which means that openness and honesty between all participants is necessary. If you want to be complicit with cheating, that is your choice, but I feel like that kind of defeats the purpose. If he lies to her, what is going to keep him from lying to you in the future?

She may not treat him well, or he may say that just to make you feel like it's okay to be involved with him. Either way, he has made a commitment and promise to her that he is breaking by being with you. If she is really that terrible, why doesn't he leave her? If she isn't able to satisfy his needs, why doesn't he at least give her the opportunity to consent to him seeking it elsewhere? Is it really fair for him to decide what kind of relationship she is going to be in without consulting her at all?

I know some people think it isn't their problem as long as their SO (in your case your MM) isn't cheating on them, but I personally feel like any involvement in the cheating is just as bad as the cheating itself.

It's your decision whether or not you're comfortable with the situation, but before getting in too deep you may want to consider how comfortable you really are with his apparent acceptance of cheating as appropriate behavior in less than satisfactory relationships.
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  #12  
Old 07-24-2012, 11:14 AM
JJ87 JJ87 is offline
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I couldn't agree with you more, that's why I said that MM isn't available to live this kind of lifestyle. We were very leery of even meeting with him, knowing that he is essentially cheating on his wife. When we did relent to meeting with him, it was with the pretense of, 'who better to be with than a married couple, very secure in the relationship, with no strings attached.' We had no idea it would evolve into what it has.

What will happen next? I don't know. Will he leave his wife for us? I doubt it, but then again, I don't know.

What I do know is that since we have met him, it has made me realize that I want a poly life. It won't be with him unless he leaves his wife or is totally up front with her. I won't ever ask him to do that, tho.
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  #13  
Old 07-24-2012, 07:27 PM
Lu2k155 Lu2k155 is offline
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Default Similar Situation......Unfortunately a un happy ending.

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I thought I would add more details to my intro. My husband and I have been married for 25 years. We have known each other since we were teenagers and have been together ever since. We married young and had kids young and now we are ready to experience some new things. We're not ready for grandkids and rocking chairs, yet!

Up to recently, I have never been with another man, however hubby has had an affair in our early years of marriage. Swinging for us has been awesome in the way that it has evolved our sex life. We've been on playdates, went to clubs, house parties, etc but even if we didn't play with other people we still came home and ravished each other. Sex has never been better!!!

I am a kindhearted person and I am always taking in strays, whether they be stray kids or animals. And, I believe that I can live this life, love 2 men at the same time. My ultimate scenario would be to have friends that would be willing to live this lifestyle with us, either in a home together or within close proximity.

Also, I wanted to touch a little bit about our MM. He gave us so much information about who he is and what he does. We have the potential to literally ruin his life (which we would never ever do) with the information he gave us, but we understand him a lot better now. Most importantly, he trusts us and we trust him. I do not trust easily, therefor this is a huge step for me.

Sorry...I do tend to ramble on... Even talk to myself at times BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I am glad that you are happy with him, and yes it is sad that you can never live the life you want, as relates to poly and yes technically it is cheating on his part, and whole world of issues with that. He made the decision, simple, based on the need for intimacy. We don't know how many times he has tried to fix his marriage here. And what lengths he has gone through to do that. In the mean time, what do you do? Just waste away, I agree he needs to fix it, if you all want the poly relationship.
I agree that I am giving mixed signals here, however, I love the saying better to love than loose.(That statement is somewhat selfish on my part, cause I needed as well) Eventually it will work its way out.
There are many ways this will affect you: Positively, you all will and have found new loves and new experiences. Two: You all will live, learn, love and grow. Third: Unfortunately- He will have to make a choice, only because time and his needs will dictate that. Finally-with the trust issue, do you think that it is really trust? Because he has found a new and exciting love and experience, THAT he can finally be open with and he is open? Have you thought that he will not be open in the future, because of what he is doing now with you all?
My answer to all that is this and in my experience, Yeah luv2k155, starting out cheating, he intended to include her, but she just beat him to the punch. End the end he had to do something to fix it for himself. Yeah finally he had someone to talk to and open to, we trust. I think in my case he just need someone to listen, not be judgmental and had a clear understanding of what they wanted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I COULD BE RAMBLING AT THIS POINT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was friends with Luv2k155 for 10 years. He was married, His wife was too unsure in what she wanted. Her personality for a while, until I got introduced to her, was I am going to act like I love him in front of people and never show an type of affection while we are at home. (Please don't get me wrong here, I loved her too, I don't mean to speak negatively against her, just explaining the facts as they took place.) To me she was not sure of what she wanted.
We started spending time together, found a common interest and started to converse and support each other through our times (He was not getting the fulfillment at home, so he wondered)
She finally came around or seemed to have come around, and asked him, if he wanted to start dating other people, he said honestly yes. He said to her that he thought this was a good idea and they both agreed it would possibly help and strengthen the marriage and then he told her, that he and I were seeing each other.
He introduced me as the other woman and things were great for a good minute(as in a year).
She encouraged it and wanted to watch. We made sure that we included her in everything, I guess it was not enough. Well all of a sudden the G.E.M came out.
There are things that I would of done, differently, for her sake.(I would still see him, but would of went about it another way)
His marriage did not end because of the extra relationship, it ended, because she got violent and off course, during the divorce trial, I was the natural blame for things, but in the end, the truth came out. And her truth was that he had already begun to see other people with out telling her. She wanted to control the part of whom he saw and what they did. End the end he had a choice to make. Was he going to be happy? He asked himself, did he do all he could to make the marriage work? What else could he do? She was willing to control the situation. When I say control, I mean some serious control, example: You need to have sex with here this way, or that way. You can not take a shower without me watching.
To me, it turned into an annoying situation, too me it was better with her not knowing.
I never forced him to make a decision, or rather say, I did not verbally voice my opinion. If he wanted the serious poly relationship that we were striving for, and she was the way she was, he concluded it was not going to work.

Do I feel bad for her? no, I miss her though. I wish she would of just chilled a little and let time take its course.

This is a hard situation, enjoy it as long as you can, it will come to an end one day, not because she will found out or maybe ,but because he will discover more about himself and what he wants and needs(We don't live forever). Hopefully you will be on the side of pleasure in gaining a new permanent love, rather than side of pain. And it seems to me that you all are happy together. Trust is a very, very important word for me as well. If you have that bond of trust, why not go all the way. Its hard to come by now a days? I am glad that I was on the side of pleasure, on the other hand I hated it for her. I guess she never really understood.
**Me Rambling***
I chuckled at the the sig, talking to myself, I find myself doing that as well, LOL.

I married young and have six children, four of whom are adults. I am not ready for the rocking chair, although, the chair found me, lol. SMH........and crying.....lol. See there went through a mixed emotion moment. Ok I am find now, lol. Any I wish the best for all three of you.
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Last edited by Lu2k155; 07-24-2012 at 07:44 PM.
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  #14  
Old 07-25-2012, 11:12 AM
JJ87 JJ87 is offline
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When you said, "enjoy it while you can." that is exactly how I feel. I am going to enjoy all of this while I can. MM knows of the type of relationship I want, but I think that scares him a bit. And frankly, since he has the type of marriage just like you described, where they are the perfect couple when out but at home they are like complete strangers, he deserves to have someone who can love him and devote to him all the time. In my opinion, if MM were to leave his wife for us, he'd just be trading one miserable lifestyle for another because I wouldn't be able to fully devote all of my attention and love on him. He'd have to be willing to accept what I can give, and in an essence that is what he is doing with his wife. That's not good enough for him - my opinion again.

So while I would love for this to never end, it probably will and not in a pleasant way. However it ends, I will be better for having had a relationship with MM rather than always wondering what it would have been like.

Anyway, my 2 men make me so happy and for that I am grateful.
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  #15  
Old 07-25-2012, 08:21 PM
Lu2k155 Lu2k155 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ87 View Post
When you said, "enjoy it while you can." that is exactly how I feel. I am going to enjoy all of this while I can. MM knows of the type of relationship I want, but I think that scares him a bit. And frankly, since he has the type of marriage just like you described, where they are the perfect couple when out but at home they are like complete strangers, he deserves to have someone who can love him and devote to him all the time. In my opinion, if MM were to leave his wife for us, he'd just be trading one miserable lifestyle for another because I wouldn't be able to fully devote all of my attention and love on him. He'd have to be willing to accept what I can give, and in an essence that is what he is doing with his wife. That's not good enough for him - my opinion again.

So while I would love for this to never end, it probably will and not in a pleasant way. However it ends, I will be better for having had a relationship with MM rather than always wondering what it would have been like.

Anyway, my 2 men make me so happy and for that I am grateful.
You never know..........what he considers treasure, until you get to that point, as far as the trade off. Yeah for me, I ended up with the prize,...............her on the other hand is miserable. (Too bad, so sad) she had the chance. And with the trust issue, all of the dirty laundry is on the table, and we are sorting through the laundry in all honestly. Sometime people just need someone to talk to, for REAL.
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Last edited by Lu2k155; 07-25-2012 at 08:23 PM.
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  #16  
Old 07-25-2012, 08:28 PM
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lovefromgirl lovefromgirl is offline
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It can never lead to a serious relationship, and we both know it. Yes, we may get hurt but I am of the mind that it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved before. Or, a less sappy version is that I don't want to live a life full of 'what-if's.' She can't "ruin" us. She could make life harder for us, but not ruin us.
...uh, what about her getting hurt? I'm seeing a lot of "us, us, us" and not a ton of compassion for the woman whose husband is cheating on her. Because that's what it is, when they don't give permission. Cheating. Pretty nasty.
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  #17  
Old 07-25-2012, 09:57 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ87 View Post
I couldn't agree with you more, that's why I said that MM isn't available to live this kind of lifestyle.
But you are having a sexual relationship with him? So he IS available to still cheat on his wife with you and you are helping him do it.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "this lifestyle" - poly? Sex-only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ87 View Post
We were very leery of even meeting with him, knowing that he is essentially cheating on his wife.
He's not "essentially" cheating on his wife, he is ABSOLUTELY cheating on his wife.

Do you know her at all? Do you know that any of the things he says about his relationship with her are true? I have known a lot of guys who have blatantly lied about the nature of their relationships with their wives in order to be able to cheat on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ87 View Post
When we did relent to meeting with him, it was with the pretense of, 'who better to be with than a married couple, very secure in the relationship, with no strings attached.' We had no idea it would evolve into what it has.
But you allowed it to evolve into this cheating situation. You did have control over the situation, nobody forced you to do anything.

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Originally Posted by JJ87 View Post
What will happen next? I don't know. Will he leave his wife for us? I doubt it, but then again, I don't know.
Well, you COULD always actually take some control of the situation and do what you feel is right, rather than just "waiting and seeing".

You could say "Look, we would really like to continue this, but we're really uncomfortable about your wife not knowing - either get your relationship with your wife to the point where she agrees with this, and we can meet her, or get yourself to the point where you and she aren't married any more. Then we can really see where this can go. Until then, we really need to stop doing anything that is cheating."

Your choice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ87 View Post
What I do know is that since we have met him, it has made me realize that I want a poly life. It won't be with him unless he leaves his wife or is totally up front with her. I won't ever ask him to do that, tho.
A good realisation - but I think that you need to really work out where your morals stand with regards to cheating and what you will and won't enter in to in this sort of situation.

As others have said, part of polyamory is the concept of ethical non-monogamy. And in this context, "ethical" usually means that everybody involved has provided their informed consent.
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  #18  
Old 07-26-2012, 12:00 PM
JJ87 JJ87 is offline
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...uh, what about her getting hurt? I'm seeing a lot of "us, us, us" and not a ton of compassion for the woman whose husband is cheating on her. Because that's what it is, when they don't give permission. Cheating. Pretty nasty.
Yes, I totally agree. Cheating is nasty. I've been there with my husband and it wasn't pretty. When I said that she can't ruin us, I meant us as in my husband and I.

Because I was there, I do have compassion for his wife. I seriously do not want anyone to get hurt. And even though I know there are 2 sides to every story, I do believe what he is telling me. He has a very public job, one that would make it seem that he has the perfect family. I don't "know" his wife, but I know the type of person she is from what he is telling me.

I understand your concerns, I really do. I wish the circumstances were different. However, they're not. I also understand that you don't know me from Adam, either. But I promise you, there is more to this story than him just cheating.
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  #19  
Old 07-26-2012, 12:16 PM
JJ87 JJ87 is offline
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"But you are having a sexual relationship with him? So he IS available to still cheat on his wife with you and you are helping him do it."

Yes, we are having sex with him, but I am not having sex alone with him. We meet as a 3some.

"I'm not really sure what you mean by "this lifestyle" - poly? Sex-only?"

Poly lifestyle.

"Do you know her at all?"

No, I do not know her at all.

"Do you know that any of the things he says about his relationship with her are true?"

There are certain circumstances that lead me to believe that they are true.

"I have known a lot of guys who have blatantly lied about the nature of their relationships with their wives in order to be able to cheat on them."

Yes, I also know of many men that will say anything just to have sex with another woman. However, there is more to this story and to say how I know that he hasn't or won't do this would be giving out more than I am willing to share. I apologize and I know that sounds like a cop out, but it honestly isn't.

"But you allowed it to evolve into this cheating situation. You did have control over the situation, nobody forced you to do anything."

You are right.

"Well, you COULD always actually take some control of the situation and do what you feel is right, rather than just "waiting and seeing"."

Right again.

"You could say "Look, we would really like to continue this, but we're really uncomfortable about your wife not knowing - either get your relationship with your wife to the point where she agrees with this, and we can meet her, or get yourself to the point where you and she aren't married any more. Then we can really see where this can go. Until then, we really need to stop doing anything that is cheating."

Yes, our choice. But I will not ask him to leave his wife.

"A good realisation - but I think that you need to really work out where your morals stand with regards to cheating and what you will and won't enter in to in this sort of situation."

You are right again. We do need to cover a lot more ground rules and what we will and won't tolerate.

Sorry, I don't know how to do all that fancy shmancy quote thingy.
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  #20  
Old 07-26-2012, 02:11 PM
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Emm Emm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ87 View Post
Yes, we are having sex with him, but I am not having sex alone with him. We meet as a 3some.
I fail to see how that makes it "not cheating".
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Originally Posted by JJ87 View Post
Sorry, I don't know how to do all that fancy shmancy quote thingy.
Use [quote] and [/quote] tags. If you don't know how, read the FAQs.

Last edited by Emm; 07-26-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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