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  #1  
Old 12-04-2009, 03:38 PM
Riunin Riunin is offline
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Default Understanding Poly and Cheating

As before I'm the mono guy in a relationship with a poly girl. We've started to talk about it more openly but it still scares me and hurts me to think about, but that's not the problem, I care enough about her to not protest this, even if its painful to me. I'm having trouble trying to get her to understand how it feels to me so she can be... I dunno gentler about it, more helpful to me I guess. I'm not going to lie and say that I'm a secure person, if this is going to happen I need her support but try as I may I can't get through to her what a relationship is to me, and what I expect from her. We were talking yesterday, she said that she wanted a girlfriend and I said that that was ok, but that I wasn't ready yet and that I didn't know when I would be. She said that there was no one right now, but if she found someone she was going to try to act on it, and that I wouldn't have to meet her. This hurt me a little but I replied that I'd have to meet the girl, that I wouldn't want a threesome or whatever a more typical guy would want, I'm not interested in that, but that I'd have to meet her. I told her if it happened I would probably be jealous and it may effect our relationship. She replied that she just wouldn't tell me then. This is cheating to me, in fact polyamoury is on the verge of cheating for me, but if its done a certain way I think I can survive, with some time. I told her no, that that was not any good at all, that that was cheating in my mind that that was the worst thing I could do, and that while her getting a girlfriend would hurt me, doing it secretly would hurt so much more. I have to meet the girl, I'll probably hate her, demonize her, turn her into an enemy, but I have to meet her and speak to her and have a face. It made me realize though, that this strange community I don't fit with, that on some level I oppose but am willing to get involved in for her a much different than myself. That she can think that cheating is having someone else and leaving me for them. That that is what she thinks I'm afraid of, that that's why it hurts me. It's more than that, the fear of be left is there surely, the fear of chasing her away, the fear of becoming distant and having us change, but there's also the feeling of not being enough, the feeling of betrayal, the loss of time with her that I so treasure, and well I am a guy so also the loss of potential sex. And now there is a fear of deception, of being lied to, of her simply not being able to comprehend how I feel and how she can make it right.

So anyway my question, How does this community see cheating, what is cheating to you, how bad is it, please act like I'm three, because apparently the mindsets are so different that its the only way to express things properly.

And also, if you could help me find the words that will express the way I feel to her, words that will make her understand me I would appreciate it so very much. I honestly hope she doesn't find anyone else, as cruel as it sounds and as bad as it feels, I don't want to give up that time with her, I don't want to have to deal with the stress and the conflict and whatever else it is I so dread. But if it happens it needs to happen a way that I can live with, and I need to get that across.

Thank You
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  #2  
Old 12-04-2009, 03:52 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Alright my friend. Take a breath, relax and know that whatever happens was meant to.
Now, take a good read through the information at this link. It should provide some clarification as to the difference in Poly and cheating. Read the rest of it too...It's gentle and an easy read.
http://www.xeromag.com/fvpoly.html

Next, accept the simple truth that "not telling you" about a boyfriend/girlfriend/one night stand is cheating. The common thread in all approaches to poly seems to be honesty and openness before the fact.

If she's using the word poly to explain her approach towards hidden relationships, she is bastardizing the word.

I feel for you brother and hope you can find a way to nurture the love you have for her. But do not put yourself into a situation where you are miserable in all but the moments you have together. That is no way to live.

Peace and Love
Mono
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2009, 04:06 PM
Riunin Riunin is offline
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Thanks I'll read it once I get off work, hopefully this will help us, I take it helped you.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:24 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Hi Ruinin,

First thing - I think you had no problem expressing your fears here in writing. Why don't you just print this out, give it to her, and sit down and get into it. The result might surprise you

Secondly I'm going to offer up something that I feel (and suspect most here will agree with?) may be a fact of life (human) that you may not have become aware of yet. And I think this is one of the "realizations" that are driving things like polyamory forward.
Despite the obvious exceptions (and those exist in anything), humans are multifaceted beings. What we "need" to be happy, secure, fulfilled is not likely to ever come from a single source. When it comes to relationships there's this theory out there that if we can only meet this theoretical Mr or Ms Right then ALL our needs will be fulfilled. I reality - at least as I've seen in my lifetime & experiences - this is wholly a fantasy and unrealistic. Many attempts I've seen have at BEST resulted in people being severely restricted and never fulfilling the potential they were born with.
The "dream", in poly and other areas of life, is about finding a better way. A way that we can be "all that we can be", WITH support & love from all those around us that want that same dream for us.
Does that make any sense ?

And to address some of your more specific concerns about "cheating" etc I can only say that I think it absolutely unacceptable. Have others done it and even made it work for them (turning a blind eye, don't ask-don't tell etc) - yes. It's happened. But my guess is that if all of us here were gambling people - it's a bet we'd never take. Because if we 'lose', that loss is substantial. And it's not limited to the 2 (or 3) individuals involved but ripples out to endless others - society in general. And from a purely philosophical standpoint - it just doesn't fly. Period. Honesty is fundamental.

I guess I'd suggest you just spend some time soul searching and trying to really connect to what it's like to be truly human and all that implies.
You (like many others) may just not be able to get your brain around the concept that we're capable of loving multiple people without limitations. If you can never get acceptance of that for yourself then you will never be able to be genuine and in a relationship with someone else who see's life in a dramatically different manner.
Can we all get along ? Absolutely. Can we care about these "others" - absolutely. But can we truly "bond" with them at a level necessary for a romantic (I hate that term) relationship - highly unlikely.
Take some time alone. Think. Study. Be "true" to yourself. Lacking that you can't be "true" anyone else.

GS
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2009, 04:26 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Actually I just found this source. It came from another member's recommendation. My story is much different than yours although we are both mono.


Good luck
Mono
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Last edited by MonoVCPHG; 12-04-2009 at 04:44 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2009, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
She replied that she just wouldn't tell me then. This is cheating to me, in fact polyamoury is on the verge of cheating for me, but if its done a certain way I think I can survive, with some time.
Cheating, either in a mono or poly relationship, is about a breach of trust. I'd most certainly call the situation you're in cheating when it's clear that it would be a violation of your trust and boundaries.

Quote:
How does this community see cheating, what is cheating to you, how bad is it
Cheating is a betrayal of trust, a violation of the boundaries of the relationship and a really shitty thing to put someone through, especially if you claim to love them. What cheating is, beyond that betrayal, is really up to the relationship. For some people, flirting online is cheating because it betrays that boundary, but other couples might find online flirting to be no different than reading erotica. I know some couples who think watching porn is cheating. Exactly what crosses that boundary for you is your call, but when you know the boundary and it's crossed, it's certainly cheating.

And it's bad. Very bad.

What poly is, at it's core, is understanding of boundaries. Those of use who realize that our love isn't confined to one person set those boundaries differently, but we still set them.

Quote:
And also, if you could help me find the words that will express the way I feel to her, words that will make her understand me I would appreciate it so very much.
I'll go with the suggestion to print out this post. You seem to understand why you're feeling the way you do, and your reasoning don't seem controlling. You're not concerned that she's "not doing what you want", you seem concerned that your relationship with her will be strained.

If she can't respect that, then I think it hints to underlying issues, ones that might not be resolved with honest communication. But certainly, opening up the dialogue with her is going to be the first step to any form of progress.
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2009, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riunin View Post
As before I'm the mono guy in a relationship with a poly girl. We've started to talk about it more openly but it still scares me and hurts me to think about, but that's not the problem, I care enough about her to not protest this, even if its painful to me. I'm having trouble trying to get her to understand how it feels to me so she can be... I dunno gentler about it, more helpful to me I guess. I'm not going to lie and say that I'm a secure person, if this is going to happen I need her support but try as I may I can't get through to her what a relationship is to me, and what I expect from her. We were talking yesterday, she said that she wanted a girlfriend and I said that that was ok, but that I wasn't ready yet and that I didn't know when I would be. She said that there was no one right now, but if she found someone she was going to try to act on it, and that I wouldn't have to meet her. This hurt me a little but I replied that I'd have to meet the girl, that I wouldn't want a threesome or whatever a more typical guy would want, I'm not interested in that, but that I'd have to meet her. I told her if it happened I would probably be jealous and it may effect our relationship. She replied that she just wouldn't tell me then. This is cheating to me, in fact polyamoury is on the verge of cheating for me, but if its done a certain way I think I can survive, with some time. I told her no, that that was not any good at all, that that was cheating in my mind that that was the worst thing I could do, and that while her getting a girlfriend would hurt me, doing it secretly would hurt so much more. I have to meet the girl, I'll probably hate her, demonize her, turn her into an enemy, but I have to meet her and speak to her and have a face. It made me realize though, that this strange community I don't fit with, that on some level I oppose but am willing to get involved in for her a much different than myself. That she can think that cheating is having someone else and leaving me for them. That that is what she thinks I'm afraid of, that that's why it hurts me. It's more than that, the fear of be left is there surely, the fear of chasing her away, the fear of becoming distant and having us change, but there's also the feeling of not being enough, the feeling of betrayal, the loss of time with her that I so treasure, and well I am a guy so also the loss of potential sex. And now there is a fear of deception, of being lied to, of her simply not being able to comprehend how I feel and how she can make it right.

So anyway my question, How does this community see cheating, what is cheating to you, how bad is it, please act like I'm three, because apparently the mindsets are so different that its the only way to express things properly.

And also, if you could help me find the words that will express the way I feel to her, words that will make her understand me I would appreciate it so very much. I honestly hope she doesn't find anyone else, as cruel as it sounds and as bad as it feels, I don't want to give up that time with her, I don't want to have to deal with the stress and the conflict and whatever else it is I so dread. But if it happens it needs to happen a way that I can live with, and I need to get that across.

Thank You
It sounds like she is either frustrated or wants an open relationship, not a poly one. Personally I have found that it is better to go at the pace of the one who is most struggling with poly and the issues/feelings/dynamics it can bring up. In this case its you.

Having been with someone who said something similar to what she has said I would wonder how much depth she really wants to have with you? It sounds like she would rather not share herself with you for whatever reason. Perhaps she is looking for a way out of your relationship. It sounds like she is not willing to put the endless amount of work into your relationship that poly requires.

It might be an idea to tell her that you want to have a deep relationship with her and that she is blocking the two of you from having it by insisting that she keep any other partner separate. Perhaps its a matter of clarifying how invovled you both want to be with each other.

You say you are not secure? Well, why should you be? You are right, she doesn't sound like she is being gentle or empathic. How can security be built if you are not receiving these things in your relationship? It can't!

I would suggest that if you DON'T meet her other partners that you will hate them, demonize them and think of them as the enemy much more. That has been my experience and others too. To me it isn't poly unless everyone can at least be amicable. Not best friends necessarily, but get along and at least have respect and concern for one another. Anyone she is with will directly effect your life vicariously through her so its in everyones best interest that you are ALL communicating and supporting each other one way or another.

Please don't think that because you are a man that you are the only one concerned about having less sex. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with a human concern. Humans need closeness and sex is a part of that (besides, its intimate fun! ). All your concerns about being in a poly relationship are very valid and also common, because you have human needs. It IS possible to get those needs meet and some. If this works out you will get needs met that you didn't even know you had. That has been my experience anyway. Its been hard work, but so fullfilling and so much more than I thought.

Take a good look around these forums my friend. Get you girlfriend to do some research and educate herself a bit more too maybe (she may also benefit from reading here). This is a project for both of you whether she finds another or not. Together you can reach such amazing depths with each other if that is truly what you BOTH want.
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:50 PM
Riunin Riunin is offline
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Umm ok, thank you everyone, I do feel a need to correct myself though. I said Polyamoury is on the verge of cheating for me, that wasn't quite right. Polyamoury feels dangerous to me, not wrong or bad on the whole, but rather for me personally. It's not a concept that I'm very comfortable with, it's not something I'll ever strive towards or try because I want to. I don't have the proper words to express it. I can see how others can do it just like how I can see how others can have open relationships or just find people to have sex with. I don't think any less of these people its just not something that I can do, or really want to do. I'm not calling everyone here a bunch of cheaters, from what I've read you've all worked hard to make your relationships work, its just not for me. I want to thank you all, you've helped me a lot, I do appreciate it. It just not my mind set or whatever. I care about her and want her to be happy though, so pain me as it does I'm not giving up on her, I just hope it works out.

Last edited by Riunin; 12-04-2009 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:01 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riunin View Post
Polyamoury feels dangerous to me, not wrong or bad on the whole, but rather for me personally. It's not a concept that I'm very comfortable with, it's not something I'll ever strive towards or try because I want to. I don't have the proper words to express it.
Etc...

It sounds like you might be one of those "wired-monogamous" people we keep coming across up in here.
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:21 PM
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I got it Ruinin.I didn't think that's what you were saying

You may want to concentrate on Mono's posts and threads as he may speak to how you are feeling. A lot of what you have said about your relationship with the "idea" of poly he seems to mirror. Obviously he and I have talked a lot so I don't remember what is on here and what we have talked about in private. I can certainly speak in a PM to you more as can he (if he chooses)if you have questions you don't feel comfortable addressing on here. Sometimes being open on here might not feel safe, but I assure you that Mono and I have talked about some really hard stuff in regards to mono/poly relationships and I for one would be willing to share with you and would be an unjudgmental listening ear.

Thanks for doing the work needed to understand poly. You must really love this woman if you think its worth trying to understand. A lot of mono people would not bother. I commend you for attempting to bridge the gap
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