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  #11  
Old 07-18-2012, 05:40 PM
PiedPiper PiedPiper is offline
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I appreciate the clarification and apologize to all if I seemed harsh. I frequently recognize nuances in Pocket's communication that others might miss...it's part of what helps us work (albeit dysfunctionally at times).

Thanks for the condolences, it's been a real struggle. Pea's success is our saving grace.
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  #12  
Old 07-19-2012, 12:30 AM
pocketpoly86 pocketpoly86 is offline
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Default Day 3

Wow. Breathe. hmmmm….

Well, it had been my intention to write a fairly positive entry today but the string of responses has taken me a bit by surprise so it looks like I need to respond before proceeding.

First to Pied Piper: While I appreciate you taking an interest in my journey, I am sad to see what you wrote here and surprised that in an IM earlier today, you stated that I would probably “appreciate” your comments. I’m afraid I do not in the manner they were provided. While I intended to clarify what I understood about your plans this week (referencing several comments about whether or not I was surprised Colada was sleeping in your bed), I didn’t get the chance to because you jumped in and wrote what seems to be a clarification of my knowledge on the subject. However, what you actually clarified was your understanding of the situation. I am more than willing to agree that we had a miscommunication – and clarify for everyone else that I don’t think there was malice involved, as it might seem – I do not agree, however, that I was using a metaphor of any kind. What would it be a metaphor of anyway? Dingedheart is absolutely correct – I was caught off guard. Let me clarify. Yes, we talked earlier in the evening. Yes, we discussed Colada’s anxieties and her lack of time commitment. And what I suggested to you was that simply telling her that you wanted to spend more time with her might not work because I suspected she didn’t know what that actually meant. I said that it’s like telling someone to be “nicer” – if they don’t know the operational definition of nice, then they don’t know how to do it more. You have to define the behaviors. So I asked you to role-play with me and define what you actually meant by more time. I suggested you start with Monday and walk through the week….and that’s what you did. You said, Colada, when I say more time, I mean on Monday we would do this, on Tuesday this, on Wednesday that, etc. Apparently, you believed you were simultaneously telling me that you intended to use this as an actual schedule with her this week. However, I thought we were just talking about a hypothetical possible schedule. We also discussed that she likely had to work that night and wasn’t available and that you would give her three requests for this week’s goals (not that night’s) – one of which was to come to the house while I was there. We also both agreed that she was unlikely to be comfortable enough to do it. So basically, while we did talk, I did not understand what you meant and was expecting that you only might even get a chance to talk with her that night. And that if that discussion was very successful, she would come to the house some time during the week. I assumed (bad on me) that I would be updated after your discussion and told when that night would be. I did not think it was even in the realm of possibility that you would be able to convince her to come over after calling her after 10pm-ish – she’s known for putting you off for days or weeks! So no, I didn’t think she would be there that night.

Punchline: We did talk, but it was not clear to me, and I was surprised.

SNeacail – Pied Piper is correct in that it can be arousing to me to have her there but can is the operative word. In truth, I don’t really like being in control. I am typically seen as a very controlling person. But in reality, I prefer to take a back seat. The problem for me is that I like things to be done right – so if the person is smart enough to do a good job, I am more than happy to back off. However, if I perceive that person as incapable, then I will jump in and get the job done myself. Because typically the latter is the case, I end up in control often – but it is decidedly not my preference. In the bedroom, I find it highly erotic to be teased though I’m not sure I totally qualify as submissive because I don’t like being ordered around. It tends to confuse Piper a lot. He wants to just tell me what to do and oftentimes it is outside, sometimes, way outside my comfort zone so I end up upset that he would tell me to do something he knows is too far for me. I prefer a gentler approach – coaxing, teasing, subtle reminders. The condoms is a good example – it’s a subtle reminder to me that he’s not using them with her. Another good example is that once she left him a shirt in an airport locker that she had worn so when he came home from work travel, he smelled like her and that really turned me on. So Piper is correct that there is a bit of D/S to our sexual relationship – and I am interested in exploring that further but what is a struggle is how exactly to execute it. There is a fine line between being dominant and controlling. We are still working on figuring that out.

Your other point that we both need more attention than either can give – that is spot on correct. Underlying Piper’s interest in another person – is the need for more attention, at least, that’s my belief. He also hopes that someone could give me the emotional support I crave. I don’t think, however, think that adding another person is the ideal way to do that – but I’m not sure I have a vote in that so I’m trying to make the best of it.

Nycindie: You are correct – too much focus on sex. That has always been the case, from my perspective anyway. Having said that, what I was actually planning to write about today was his discussion with Colada the other night. They actually didn’t have sex. I just found out last night. He apparently told her that he is looking for more than lust – he wants to be with someone that can become part of our life and it’s not all about sex. There was more to the discussion – I have to admit, it all sounded quite mature and appropriate (yes, ok, I’ll admit, I was surprised – Piper is not exactly known for being the best communicator) – but I have to give him credit. It sounded very promising to me. I have no idea what she thought but I felt like he was thinking and being appropriate. I said – wow, jeez, I’m jealous, can you find someone to help you communicate with me like that? It seems I can’t both be in the role of therapist and recipient of his comments. Not that I would want to be – it would just be nice to have someone he could talk to, to help him better communicate with me.

Ok, now, my thoughts for day 3:

Last night was good. He ordered us dinner and we had a mini date. He filled me in on the discussion with Colada and I was impressed with how he handled it. He wanted to follow with sex but I wasn’t sure. We started in my room (I do love saying that, btw) but then the baby monitor wasn’t working so we had to end it or venture upstairs to his room. Ahhh, reality bites at times. Well, I thought for a while and decided to join him, but not all night. We did have sex for a while and it was very nice, all warm fuzzies and what-not but I did leave. I have to admit while I enjoyed it, I was still a little skiddish from recent events…some things to consider. But it was satisfying and went probably as good as it could have – so I was feeling happier and giving. I told him to call her and share the rest of the evening with her – which I’m told she really liked.

But, sadly, I didn’t sleep most of the night…again…because I wasn’t sure if she was here again or not. Which brings me to my points for the day.

First, I have to clarify that we agreed on a time that he can feel awake enough to share that isn’t 5pm. He agreed to 8am and that works for me. It went well this morning – we’ll see if/how it continues.

Rule #2: Text me when she arrives and when she leaves. (we’ll try this out – I don’t want to be too intrusive, but I also must sleep and not feel sick. If it doesn’t work, or if it bothers her, we’ll revisit this rule – but it’s a starting point)

Task #2: Think about how I can decorate my room to create a retreat of sorts – a place where I can feel calm and escape the realities of everyday life. I actually told several of the women at work today that I decided to take a time-out and that I moved down stairs. I talked to one of the women who runs a fairly serious fashion blog about getting her to do a full closet make-over for me. I also talked about how I can decorate this room to achieve the balance I need in my life. It felt good to share some of my journey and it reminded me that the poly questions are only some of what I am working through. I need to be comfortable with me and centered before I can truly sort out how the poly lifestyle can or cannot work in my life. Today, I took one more step….
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2012, 01:10 AM
km34 km34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketpoly86 View Post
First, I have to clarify that we agreed on a time that he can feel awake enough to share that isn’t 5pm. He agreed to 8am and that works for me. It went well this morning – we’ll see if/how it continues.
So, you guys get together every morning just to check in and discuss anything that needs to be discussed? I think that's a great idea. My hubby and I have "bedroom meetings" once a week (we lie in bed and talk about whatever), but doing it every day might be interesting...

Quote:
Rule #2: Text me when she arrives and when she leaves. (we’ll try this out – I don’t want to be too intrusive, but I also must sleep and not feel sick. If it doesn’t work, or if it bothers her, we’ll revisit this rule – but it’s a starting point)
I think that is perfectly fair. You may be on another floor, but it's still the same house and the possibility of you running into her is there. I wouldn't think you or Colada would want to risk a surprise encounter. While I think it may be helpful for you to work on getting over that sick feeling about whether or not she's in the house, I think knowing is also important so everything can be done to make her feel comfortable visiting, too.

Quote:
Task #2: Think about how I can decorate my room to create a retreat of sorts – a place where I can feel calm and escape the realities of everyday life. I actually told several of the women at work today that I decided to take a time-out and that I moved down stairs. I talked to one of the women who runs a fairly serious fashion blog about getting her to do a full closet make-over for me. I also talked about how I can decorate this room to achieve the balance I need in my life. It felt good to share some of my journey and it reminded me that the poly questions are only some of what I am working through. I need to be comfortable with me and centered before I can truly sort out how the poly lifestyle can or cannot work in my life. Today, I took one more step…
Love it! Before I moved out of my parents' house (yes, way back when...) I had my room set up so that I had certain areas for certain things... I had my favorite chair next to a window with a little table for when I wanted to read/do homework, I had an area near the closet for getting ready (mirror, table for makeup, etc), I had the bed with tons of pillows and such in another area (and I tried to avoid lying in bed when I wasn't trying to sleep because I found that associating the bed with other activities would inhibit my ability to fall asleep), and I had another area that was all storage - books, CDs, school stuff, pretty much everything but clothes. The division of the room let the storage area get messy without really infringing on the rest of the space too much. I used curtains to have a certain amount of division when I wanted it, but they could be tied up to look really cute and flowy when I wanted everything to be presented as a whole. I pretty much loved it. It was insanely girly (all pink and hearts).
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  #14  
Old 07-19-2012, 03:08 AM
PiedPiper PiedPiper is offline
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Cool whatever it is you like...

Soooo...I take issue with some statements, am surprised by others, and will humbly accept the rest. I'm male after all. Which is which is decidedly private.
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  #15  
Old 07-20-2012, 04:01 AM
pocketpoly86 pocketpoly86 is offline
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Default Day 4

Goodness – I can’t believe it’s already been 4 days! Overall, today was good. Piper had lunch with Colada yesterday and today and went to her house last night too. No major tummy discomforts on my part, so that was nice. I also finally SLEPT last night. <sigh> That felt good! Not being worried that they were upstairs really helped me relax. I even bought them take-out Chinese today for their lunch. (Not that they shared it with me because of course she can’t handle the thought of meeting me – nor did she email me a thank you because well, I’m assuming since she hasn’t sent me an email in over 2 weeks now, that she’s not going to). Ok, ok, I’m digressing from my positive mood.

The rest of my life was fairly stressful – kids to the doctor, sports practice – then weather delay/cancelation, work, and packing for our family trip tomorrow. Work was really annoying in that I had to borrow someone else’s assistant that literally could not figure out how to turn off track changes in word and was printing everything in red underline. By the end of the day, she wouldn’t speak to me and I decided it’s just easier to do it myself. <sigh> And then my oldest child had a total melt-down. Obviously, he comes first, so now I’ll be working much of the night to make up the missed work time. Joy.

But then Piper came home from lunch with Colada – with a gift. They got me the 48 variety pack of her-pleasure, etc. condoms. On some level, this is a subtle way of them doing something together that also ‘puts me in my place’. That’s kinda hot I think. No? Well, maybe others wouldn’t think so but I sorta see it as being taken care of and I like that. Without analyzing it too much, I liked it so I’m sticking to that story. They also shopped for a TV for my room.

Fast forward to tonight. She’s on her way here now. I’m actually pretty excited. No, I don’t get to meet her still. But before getting here, Piper spent some time with me in my room. We looked through all the condom choices and tried a super studded one. Since I have never used condoms before (except a handful of times probably 15 or so years ago), I kinda enjoyed the different texture. It’s been a long standing fantasy of mine to be with Piper in my own room and having him leave to be with someone else in his room. Sorta silly I suppose, but it was fun to finally get to act it out. :P While we were in bed, we talked for a while and I asked how things are going with them and how he feels about her. He said that it feels like he has a bigger family. I thought that was a very sweet thing to say. We also talked a bit about how our little experiment is going. On one hand, he’s struggling to read my thoughts. We definitely have communication difficulties so when he reads some things, he is surprised even though I feel like I’ve told him a million times. On the other hand, it’s really helping us identify different issues and giving us both the time to talk and the space to think about things – separately. So tonight, the punchline was that overall, this might work for us.?.?? Still a long way to go in the month but now that the initial shock is beginning to wear off, we are less irritable, we have our own spaces, we are respecting those spaces better, etc. I’m feeling good about it today.

Today’s other milestones include: he’s talking to her about considering this suite for them instead of me because it has its own private exterior doorway. She wouldn’t have to leave at any specific time if they were in this area. Plus, it could use a make-over so they could decorate it in any way they want and make it more of their own space. Also, she’s coming over tonight to help him pack his stuff and the family’s stuff into the SUV for the family trip tomorrow. Yeah!!!!! I don’t have to pack! I’m almost giddy. He wants to actually incorporate her into his real life, not just his bed. And I keep saying that if he wants her to be one of or his only primary relationship, then she has to take the work/responsibility that comes with it. I don’t want to both take on the housework and take second fiddle. So I’m pretty excited that he’s doing this activity with her. I got the kids and I packed and they can do the rest. That just might work!

Soooo, for today’s rules/tasks:

Rule #3: I think it’s less of a rule and more of a request but I’d say “Try to include your primary relationships in the struggles and chores of your life, rather than just the fun dating parts” because it makes me feel like a) you actually like this person, b) they are more part of the family (or extended family), c) I don’t feel so burdened, and d) it makes me feel cared for.

Task #3: Begin thinking about what an ideal feeling would be for me in the future. In other words, do I want to feel needed? Pampered? Controlled? In Control? Attended to? Autonomous? What?
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  #16  
Old 07-21-2012, 12:05 AM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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How old are the kids ? And how did you explain the comings and goings of this new women from his bedroom. Oh yeah ...and the fact you haven't met her?
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  #17  
Old 07-21-2012, 01:55 AM
pocketpoly86 pocketpoly86 is offline
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Default quick answers

The only ones old enough to notice are middle school aged. They are alseep when she's over, so I don't tell them anything actually. And since I have my own suite, we don't see each other so not yet meeting is not a huge issue.
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  #18  
Old 07-21-2012, 12:54 PM
pocketpoly86 pocketpoly86 is offline
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Default Day 5

Day 5
So my self-imposed task for today was to think about how I want to feel in our relationship. I thought this was an easy question I was asking myself. However, as the night and next day progressed, I found the answer to be more complex than I originally expected. What I thought I would say was that I wanted to feel appreciated, loved, cared for, etc. – you know, the easy answers. But the more I thought about it, the more I decided that those words neither represent the gestalt of my needs, nor do they, on their own, illustrate what it is that I need in order to feel that way. In other words, feeling “loved” isn’t the same for everyone and consequently, the word is liberally used, but rarely well-defined. Thus, it is difficult at best, and impossible at worst, for someone else to figure out how to make us feel that way.

Bottom line: If I don’t know what it is exactly that I need, then how in the world can I ask for it from anyone else?

So today, I began figuring that out and I started with this thought: What makes me feel the happiest? Strongest? Most energized? That’s easy – my kids, when I’m on my own, and when I’m working. Hmmmm….where is “when I’m involved with someone”? “when someone makes me feel good?” “When I spend lots of time with someone?” Well, it’s not there. And that’s not because I don’t like spending time with people. It’s because I enjoy others’ company when I want to be with them rather than when I have to be with them. My next question was – When do you feel your worst? Your neediest? Your sluggish-ist? (is that even a word? Well, I’m coining it) That answer was easy too – when I’m in a relationship with someone, when I expect a certain amount of attention and don’t get it, when I feel overburdened. So the real answer to my question isn’t so much that I need to feel appreciated, loved (here I use it in an enmeshed way), cared for – those feelings don’t really bring out the best in me. I’m not the best me I can be when I’m looking for someone else to fix me, to make me feel better, to do what I want.

Two recent events struck me as I was thinking this over. First, when Pea was in the hospital, most of the parents were quitting their jobs (permanently) while I only took time off. Why? In our shoes, Pea was expected to have life-long major complications from her illness – because of this, she was provided immediate, full disability status and when that happens, the government also pays the parents a relatively high amount of money to stay home with the child. But I told the nurses that I didn’t think quitting was a good choice. I believed that if I stayed home, I would become obsessed with her issues, needs, etc. Essentially, I would rely on her to fulfill my needs to feel successful, accomplished, etc. and I didn’t feel that was fair to put that burden on her. (I did change my job to a fully flexible position and reduced my hours but I still work some – and the good news is that Pea doesn’t need anything – she’s fully recovered, despite her expected prognosis)  Fast forward to yesterday, when my oldest was melting down, he was afraid to tell me that he didn’t think he wanted to do the same type of work I did – he was afraid it would hurt my feelings. But I said – oh honey, you wouldn’t hurt my feelings! I told him that I am happy, that I feel accomplished in my career and my life, and that I am fulfilled all on my own. In other words, I assured him that he doesn’t have to take care of me – he doesn’t have to be something or someone so that I can feel better about myself – his only job is to make himself happy. I can take care of myself.

And then it hit me – that’s what I don’t do with Piper. I expect him to take care of me, to spend all his time with me, to make my dreams come true – essentially, I’ve been expecting him to fulfill everything for me! How selfish, unrealistic, and sadly, very unsuccessful. <sigh> Sometimes I hate self-realization. :/

I knew I needed to stand on my own to figure this out – I just didn’t quite know why. Well, now I’m one step closer to understanding me. While I do need to feel loved, cared about, and appreciated (among other things), FIRST, I need to feel stable, calm, centered, self-reliant, self-fulfilled, strong. Only then can I be any good in a relationship. Otherwise, I’m doing to Piper (or anyone else) exactly what I’ve well-avoided (thank goodness!) in doing to my children.

Being in my own room has given me some space. It has given me time to take care of myself. It has given Piper the space he needs. And it has given him and Colada time to work on their relationship (which seems to really be improving in a steady, healthy manner). Last night, she spent the night again – but this time, I didn’t stress. I didn’t whine. I didn’t cry. I enjoyed the time I had with Piper and then I did things I had to do and let go of needing him to take care of the rest of my night. I felt, weirdly, strong.

Who would’ve ever thought that spending less time together would be energizing. Who would’ve ever thought that being ok with another woman being involved with your husband would be a welcomed event? She’ll be staying at the house this week while we’re on vacation. She’s even inviting friends over to swim/party. She’s tip-toeing into our ‘real’ life….good or bad? Too slow? Too fast? Too weird? Or, maybe it’s ok?

Rule #4: Treat my space with the same respect you would if you felt that it was truly my space. In other words, Piper cleaned up stuff in my room today and I felt sorta violated. I guess I’m taking some ownership in my space and I kinda dig having some control over it.

Task #4: Think about 3 specific ways to achieve feeling empowered, strong, and centered…..without requiring someone else to make you feel that way.
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  #19  
Old 07-22-2012, 11:58 AM
pocketpoly86 pocketpoly86 is offline
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Default Day 6

Today was a looonngg day driving so we had a fairly uninterrupted 8 hours to talk…and talk we did. We discussed rules, what’s working, what’s not, where to go from here. Probably the best thing we did was literally make a list of what would need to happen to make this work with Colada and me. We talked a lot about what an ideal situation would be for him and for me – and then broke those goals down into ways to get there. For example, one thing we discussed is the difference between a primary and secondary. We talked about whether or not it is possible for a wife to be secondary because of the house, financial, and child care issues. We decided that it might not be possible in the fully traditional sense – in other words, one still has to meet those obligations so the wife has to be involved – but at the same time, nowhere does it say that she has to be in charge of said responsibilities entirely. We decided that it would certainly be reasonable, assuming Colada wanted the role, for her to be involved financially, with the house chores, and with helping Piper manage his life with her and with the kids. It would also be possible for her to be heavily involved with the kids – if she wanted to of course. The one point on which neither of us waivered is that I wouldn’t ever give up or defer Mommy duties – I like those, I like my kids, and above all, I find being a Mom the greastest thing in the world so I’m not giving it up, no way, no how, not ever. The rest, however, is negotiable.

Then we discussed what it would be like if I were primary or if she were. I said if I were, then I would expect her to take a true secondary role – almost a submissive one, but not quite. In other words, I would expect us to be an intact family and all the responsibilities that come with it would be ours (Piper’s and mine). If, and only if/when those needs/responsibilities were met, then he could go see/be with her. In reality, it would probably translate to once or twice a month. And since she isn’t willing to meet me, she, by her own choosing, has removed herself from being able to be involved with Piper when he’s around the family so she’d be excluded from quite a bit of time. That would possibly change in the future. I’m not sure Piper liked my conceptualization but I am unwilling to shoulder all the current responsibility and then add the time/extra responsibility that falls to me when he’s with her just so that he can spend time with her. Basically, it translates to me being his babysitter and housekeeper. I’m too tired at the end of all of that to compete with her being fun so she would get his ‘down time’ and ‘fun time’ and I would get the middle of the night baby wake-up calls, the house chores, his cranky moods, in-house dates, bills, duties, the left-overs. Who agrees to that???? And that brings me to why I moved down stairs. Things need to change. We just need to figure out how.

Rule #5: Avoid being defensive if I happen upon private information. While I understand you may have private stuff with your GF, yelling at me when I happen upon something makes me feel like you’re hiding something from me that you shouldn’t. It makes for a very distrustful state.

Task #5: Start to think about your what you want life to be like in a year – and then work backward to what that would look like today.
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  #20  
Old 07-22-2012, 01:33 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Very glad that you guys are talking about this and that you used the time you had to get to the details of some of this stuff.

While I don't even begin to understand your desired dynamic, I think that you are developing a very clear picture of what it is that you need and want in life, and are working out the path you folks need to take to get there. That is truly fantastic. Many couples don't get this far....

I also like that you are seeing that for Colada to take much of a role with your kids, you are going to need to meet her, and get along with her - putting aside your d/s kink desires, the kids need to have a solid framework to grow up in and not a drama-filled house with mixed-messages being put out there because one female says one thing and the other says the opposite because they haven't been able to sit down and discuss what needs to be done.

One more thing to think about - if all three of you are contributing to the finances of the house, that gives each of you a say in the big house decisions. If you and she don't have some sort of working relationship by this time, then Piper is going to have to play the diplomat and go-between on every little thing. I have experienced this personally in a very small way and it is truly exhausting and not very effective. I can't picture a functioning household where you and she don't have some sort of working relationship (and I don't mean romantic, just functional).
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