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  #41  
Old 12-03-2009, 05:23 AM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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I do poly. I don't swing.

There are folks who are like me in that regard. There are also swingers who don't do poly. To claim that the two are the same thing directly contradicts the experience of the people actually living their lives. That some people do both doesn't change that.

To claim that a sex-only relationship qualifies as poly because it's a relationship also doesn't follow. That standard would mean that any relationship--with your doctor, your banker, your cousin, your mother-in-law--is the same as any other, so everybody is poly because of it.

Unless you're trying to claim that it is simply sex that defines a poly tie. That also doesn't match the experiences of many people, so it can't really be said to be accurate. All the Johns picking up hookers this evening are not poly because they're having sex with prostitutes. The playas in the clubs picking up one night stands are not poly just because they're having sex. And so on.
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When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
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  #42  
Old 12-03-2009, 05:25 AM
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DrunkenPorcupine DrunkenPorcupine is offline
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But she did umply that if you don't feel that connection with your partner's kids, then you're not really poly, you're just a swinger.
Yeah, I suppose that's what bothered me there too. I am childfree. I don't want kids. So to me, "children" are merely another aspect to my life, like my hobbies, my friends, my pets, my career and so on.

My wife doesn't give a damn about my hobbies, other than that they interest me. I don't expect her to.

So when I see this "Swingers wouldn't care about your kids", it seems as if they exalt children above other aspects of a person's life. Everyone has different value sets, and I can see why people WOULD care about their children more than other things, but none of the people I relate to (and I'm not even referring to sex partners here) care about every aspect of my life that I do. I think it's rather rude to imply that because they don't care about a specific one, they're any different than someone who disregards another aspect of it.

Thanks for helping me clarify, crisare.
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  #43  
Old 12-03-2009, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by crisare View Post
But she did umply that if you don't feel that connection with your partner's kids or want to reinvent yourself in your partner's life, then you're not really poly, you're just a swinger.

The part that really bothered me was this:


I very very VERY strongly disagree with that. It's certainly not what *I* want in my poly relationships.
I would say it's a matter of accepting that as it's her site-she can write her opinions anyway she wants. But yes-it's ALWAYS (as evidenced repeatedly in the last week on THIS site) beneficial to use the method of giving "I believe" "My opinion" "my sense" or "my experience" as a preface to what is your belief, opinion, sense or experience has shown you.

Personally I find that my life is so totally different from most people I meet on here in regards to "identifying with my children" that it's moot to even point out.
My highschool "friends" remain today father figures to my 18 year old daughter though we've all "grown up" and married and moved away. It's the nature of humanity that we relate differently to others based on our experiences.
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  #44  
Old 12-03-2009, 05:28 AM
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I do poly. I don't swing.

There are folks who are like me in that regard. There are also swingers who don't do poly. To claim that the two are the same thing directly contradicts the experience of the people actually living their lives. That some people do both doesn't change that.
And what about a middle ground?

What about having an open and close relationship with your partner's family w/out taking it to the level that "the lines of distinction between the "old" pair and the "new" pair are completely blurred"?

My relationship with my guy was not swinging. It was an open poly relationship, acknolwedged by his wife. But I was not another parent to his kids. I was not "blurred" into their family. They were a primary family and I was his secondary partner.

Are you saying that my relationship doesn't quality for "poly" and I'm just a swinger trying to "upgrade" my relationship?
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  #45  
Old 12-03-2009, 05:30 AM
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Hmmm...yeah, that article actually doesn't sit well with me.

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Your child falls and breaks his leg. It's many weeks in the healing. Finally, it heals, and then he's afraid to stand on it... When he finally gets up the gumption, and does...

1.) Where are your Partners? (Non LDR) Poly partners are likely to be present. Swinging partners are more likely to be at home.

2.) How significant is this event to your partners? Poly partners are likely to be happy to have been present to see "their" baby take his second set of "first steps", having missed it the first time around. Swinging partners are more likely to go, "oh, cool...congratulations, Paul.", and go on about their lives... To me, it's not a type of committment, it's not necessarily about sex.

To me, the distinction between swinging and polyamory is a depth of emotional involvement in each other's lives. Swinging partners, to me, would seem to have a greater emotional distance from their partners, and prefer to keep it that way, while Poly partners want to grow closer in their relationships with others, often until the lines of distinction between the "old" pair and the "new" pair are completely blurred to all outside determination - you hadda be there, or hafta ask, to tell who was with who originally.
I dunno. This article seems to limit the definition of commitment to being physically present at major life milestones and saying that any other kind of commitment isn't a commitment. It negates that there can be powerful romantic commitments in relationships that don't necessitate being there for such things. It negates the fact that there can be loving relationships that exist on differing levels of commitment. And while there's fuzziness around the edges, the basic definition of swinging is recreational sex without necessarily having a romantic attachment. So it's really hard for me to translate that into a partner who I might see every couple of weeks but still have a powerful and unique connection with as a swinging partner simply because of the frequency of our meetings.

I also know a few people who have different relationships that speak to different parts of their lives and their selves. With one friend, one of her partners is the partner with whom she has kids, another partner is her Dom. To say that they should both relate to the events in her family's life in the same way seems very limiting to me.
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  #46  
Old 12-03-2009, 05:31 AM
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crisare crisare is offline
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I would say it's a matter of accepting that as it's her site-she can write her opinions anyway she wants.
Uh ... I have no comment about her site. I was responding to you on *this* board in that you said:
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Cool take on the difference that I haven't seen noted quite this way before. I like it!!
My response is based here on this board ... I don't like or agree with this "take" ... for the reasons I mentioned.

Has nothing to do with her site. I was assuming you posted here for the purpose of discussion ... which is what I was doing.
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  #47  
Old 12-03-2009, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SeventhCrow View Post
I do poly. I don't swing.

There are folks who are like me in that regard. There are also swingers who don't do poly. To claim that the two are the same thing directly contradicts the experience of the people actually living their lives. That some people do both doesn't change that.

To claim that a sex-only relationship qualifies as poly because it's a relationship also doesn't follow. That standard would mean that any relationship--with your doctor, your banker, your cousin, your mother-in-law--is the same as any other, so everybody is poly because of it.

Unless you're trying to claim that it is simply sex that defines a poly tie. That also doesn't match the experiences of many people, so it can't really be said to be accurate. All the Johns picking up hookers this evening are not poly because they're having sex with prostitutes. The playas in the clubs picking up one night stands are not poly just because they're having sex. And so on.
Hey Seventh... what was this directed at?? Just curious.

I happen to be poly-I want multiple loves and have them. Some of them include a GREAT sexual aspect. Some do not include sex in any manner. But they are still very important to me.

I do find it frustrating when people create words out of words that already have meanings (like POLY and AMORY) and then somehow other people decide to "redefine" the new word into something else "multiple sex partners" for example. Very hard on communication if we do that.
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  #48  
Old 12-03-2009, 05:36 AM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
I do find it frustrating when people create words out of words that already have meanings (like POLY and AMORY) and then somehow other people decide to "redefine" the new word into something else "multiple sex partners" for example. Very hard on communication if we do that.
But that's exactly what that person did on that website. She decided to re-define swinging to have nothing to do with sex and redefine polyamory in terms of how physically present a person is at family events.
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  #49  
Old 12-03-2009, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by DrunkenPorcupine View Post
Yeah, I suppose that's what bothered me there too. I am childfree. I don't want kids. So to me, "children" are merely another aspect to my life, like my hobbies, my friends, my pets, my career and so on.

My wife doesn't give a damn about my hobbies, other than that they interest me. I don't expect her to.

So when I see this "Swingers wouldn't care about your kids", it seems as if they exalt children above other aspects of a person's life. Everyone has different value sets, and I can see why people WOULD care about their children more than other things, but none of the people I relate to (and I'm not even referring to sex partners here) care about every aspect of my life that I do. I think it's rather rude to imply that because they don't care about a specific one, they're any different than someone who disregards another aspect of it.

Thanks for helping me clarify, crisare.
Funny-because that wasn't what I got out of it at all.

I got that she was using the kids as an example of the depth of committment involved between someone who is in a polyfamily versus swinging. That may not be wholly true-I for sure dont frequent a swingers group OR a poly group!

But one of the wonderful couples I know who did the swinging thing... well I am (not a lover to either in ANY aspect) certain I am the one they would call to care for their children, pets, jobs, homes etc if something happened-not their swinger friends. Because we have a shared LOVE for one another (not lovers remember) and an ongoing relationship between our famiies and our children, but they don't share a love or those relationships between the families and children with the couples that they swing with.... They share an enjoyable past time... sex.

Much as I don't call on my (when I worked) coworkers to help in my family situations-because we only shared a jobspace, job we enjoyed, but still not a deep loving relationship there that I would entrust my children to...

I don't see anything WRONG with that at all. Great sex and great fun for them.

It's funny on a side note-I never wanted to have children and looked forward to living life as a single women with no kids forever... here I am with a husband, boyfriend, and four kids. WHAT HAPPENED? (rhetorical question)
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  #50  
Old 12-03-2009, 05:40 AM
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And what about a middle ground?

What about having an open and close relationship with your partner's family w/out taking it to the level that "the lines of distinction between the "old" pair and the "new" pair are completely blurred"?

My relationship with my guy was not swinging. It was an open poly relationship, acknolwedged by his wife. But I was not another parent to his kids. I was not "blurred" into their family. They were a primary family and I was his secondary partner.

Are you saying that my relationship doesn't quality for "poly" and I'm just a swinger trying to "upgrade" my relationship?
Oh I'm certainly not. The lady whose sight I was quoting might. Heck if I know. I don't know her.
But I'm not so certain she would say that either.

Are you feeling defensive? I intended no offense I assure.
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