Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 07-04-2012, 09:49 PM
Anneintherain's Avatar
Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 821
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
if he really doesnt like being in a state of constant competition. Then those things really can't count for him.
You say such foreign things sometimes! I don't think being a mono (or poly for that matter) person in a poly relationship means you're feeling like you're in a constant competition with your partners other partners, unless they are saying things to compare you to each other or the person suffers a lot of insecurity or self esteem issues.

I get the feeling you believe all men have this constant testosterone driven secret battle going on with all other men 24 hours a day. I've never gotten that idea from either of my spouses, partners, or even the monogamous friend I dated briefly. I feel like I should pin them down and grill them to see if this is the case, but I do think you're just projecting

I've also experienced my partners and me acting more as if we are in the dating stages again when a new person comes into the picture, and this is behavior on all sides - being more romantic, taking time out to hang out with each other, more foot and back rubs, being more interested in having fun times in bed more often, wanting to go out and do things together, making breakfast for the other when they come home in the morning if they've been out to show we care, shaving legs everyday (that's me only ) but none of this is because of competition, it's because of a renewed appreciation, and seeing your partner again like you did when you first met them.

For me, I started thinking about opening up our relationship after some friends told me about going to a swing club and having sex in front of other people. I'd told my husband, then about a month later I brought it up like I do most important things, while painting the house (it gives me so much extra thinky time!). Because of that story and the fact my parents are swingers, the topic that came up first was going to a swing club of some sort since that was our only context. I actually recall us yelling our thoughts on the subject back and forth across the house since we were painting in different rooms. My husband was pretty interested and excited in the idea since we met and married young and had only each had a couple of partners before we met, and we'd talked about how we hadn't been ready to stop dating other people and settle down, but hadn't know there were options, so it was nice realizing that we could explore again.

Research and talking quickly let us to decide that I'd be more comfortable with dating or FWB (and I found info on poly) and he was open to that or very casual hookups. I'd say on paper the introduction and application of poly went really well (although with too much talking for his tastes), but when the time came, apparently he got pissed off when I actually had sex with my friend (because he hadn't found somebody to hook up with that night), but instead of telling me he went and chose to find a sex partner the next day and broke every single agreement we had, then lied about it for months, which led to us breaking up.

It just makes try to remember that no matter how well things seem to be going, if one party is afraid to speak up when they are unhappy you're screwed no matter what.
__________________
Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-04-2012, 11:57 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,279
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilosophicallyLost View Post
One of my biggest complaints before with our relationship was that he seemed to take me for granted, and now he doesn't. He takes the extra efforts now to impress me, which I personally thinks make the relationship a more meaningful one for both of us. Also one learns new things with new people and that can be used to spice up things for the primary relationship,
to.
My take was he didn't get it when told or warned. .... Didnt really get it until the other guy showed up ....hence why she listed it as a benefit. You don't see this as a reaction to the situation and or competition ?

Anne, have you read there story? This didn't start for them from some mutual erotic discussion.

My point was he might not list those things as a benefit. However......he very well might...

Ps ...I don't think "all" men have " secret " anything battle going on ...testrone or anything else...except maybe hair loss .....

Last edited by dingedheart; 07-05-2012 at 12:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-05-2012, 01:45 AM
Anneintherain's Avatar
Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 821
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
My take was he didn't get it when told or warned. .... Didnt really get it until the other guy showed up ....hence why she listed it as a benefit. You don't see this as a reaction to the situation and or competition ?

Anne, have you read there story? This didn't start for them from some mutual erotic discussion.

My point was he might not list those things as a benefit. However......he very well might...

You outright stated he sees it as a constant competition, and I don't see that new poly issues/rivalry issues between her partners Y and E = constant competition. Some competitive moments yes, some stress in a friendship when the dynamic has changed, yes. She mentioned in another thread that they were having issues with each other before she became involved with the other one, so poly may just be a small part of why there is rivalry.

(Yes I read their story but really, I have trouble keeping peoples stories all in my head since most people are faceless and use initials to describe partners, I can't remember them in detail and don't always re-read the thread/s from the beginning when I respond. - truth is I read from the last page backwards often, so when I responded earlier I was just responding to the title - how did you approach your SO about poly, since it was started a week ago and I didn't remember everything it was about at the time)

But yes, in a perfect world, him not taking her for granted anymore SHOULD make him happy because it makes her happier and people should make an effort and not just when they think they might lose something. Nobody said he had to start paying more attention to her, and of course it's possible part of it's from a sense of feeling threatened instead of a re-awakened sense of just how amazing his wife was, but I think people should wake up and not take their partners for granted (see my sig! )

Their marriage does have a lot of issues, but I think it's great her husband is opening up and trying to be more present in their relationship. In another post it was suggested she was moving too fast, and I don't disagree with this. Nevertheless I think even if things don't work for them for some reason, at least one of the parties will be more awake and aware and make sure their tending to their relationships better in the future.

But I suppose to sum up an answer to the OP, I don't think your husband benefits as much as you do, unless he chooses to perceive it that way, and there isn't a way to get him into see things another way no matter how much happier you think he is, or should be, or how much more free time he'll have to play video games without you sitting around the house depressed because he isn't interested in interacting or making love while you're with E.

The best bet is for an objective party such as a counselor to talk with him that might make him see things differently if he is open to it, or perhaps some wise advice from another mono person involved in a mono-poly relationships. My advice to get you husband more on board is to slow down, if E is really Y's friend and you're interested in all three of you being happy and Y seeing the benefits, maybe it's worth it to both of you to take your time for him. In fact it probably certainly is, so stuff that NRE in a box for a bit and be as present for Y as you want him to be for you.
__________________
Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-05-2012, 02:00 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,279
Default

here what I said ....it was a list of possible "if's" as to why he MIGHT not think they were benefits. I did not outright say he see's anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
My point was it subjective to him. If he dreads communicating .....if he really doesnt like being in a state of constant competition. Then those things really can't count for him.

Wait ...Anne ...your don't think her husband benefits as much as she does???? Why? .................... Gosh I didn't even outright say that

I think counseling might be a good idea however I think benefits are felt organically....during a struggle when people constantly point out benefits they see its feels like spin. Its like grasping to find a few indirect or subjective things to counter balance the negative that the persons dealing with. And what counselor is going to tell him he's wrong for not embracing or finding benefits that out weigh the negatives he's feeling.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-05-2012, 03:08 PM
YouAreHere's Avatar
YouAreHere YouAreHere is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SoNH
Posts: 918
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
here what I said ....

My point was it subjective to him. If he dreads communicating .....if he really doesnt like being in a state of constant competition. Then those things really can't count for him.
Aaah, words and meanings.
Dinged, this really can be read in such a way that basically states that there IS a state of constant competition, and the "if" focuses on whether or not he likes it. Not "if he feels he's in a state of constant competition". I can see how interpretation of the above quote could differ wildly between readers.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-06-2012, 01:26 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,279
Default

Granted I could have said it better....which is the case on most of the things I say ....but the with the history and context I don't think I put forth a belief of a constant testosterone driven secret battle.

Wouldn't that mean the secret would be out now ...if there was on


Hey Anne...hows the hang over ......feeling better today
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-07-2012, 04:22 AM
Anneintherain's Avatar
Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 821
Default

I'm totally recovered now DH, thank you for thinking of me

I just wanted to add a bit to what I said previously - even though my ex and I were both interested opening our relationship sexually, it was still 4-5 months of long talking and deep thinking before anything happened. I don't remember if you said exactly when you brought it up with your husband, but I'd think it could take much longer for both parties to be comfortable with it when it was only one persons idea/desire.

In fact when I met my second husband were both poly, but had become monogamous for several years. When I wanted to date again it took two YEARS to talk and process things enough for him to be comfortable with the idea. I thought we would both benefit equally (in different ways), but there was nothing I could say to convince him of that until he was open to experiencing it as such.
__________________
Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-07-2012, 10:50 AM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,279
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
. I thought we would both benefit equally (in different ways), but there was nothing I could say to convince him of that until he was open to experiencing it as such.
In what ways.? Doesn't it get very subjective if it's different ways/things being wieghed against another persons list. Was your husband planning to remain mono.....was that factored into your benefit analysis? Like the case here.

Glad your feeling better

Last edited by dingedheart; 07-07-2012 at 10:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-07-2012, 03:32 PM
Narayume Narayume is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9
Default

I don't really fit into the standard pattern, as I first suggested opening up the relationship as an alternative to just breaking up. I had come to the realization that I wanted something from my partner (G) that he could not give - notably intellectual conversations and well thought out opinions. He is the kindest, loveliest man you can imagine, but intellect is not his strong point. We had struggled with that point for many years, but no amount of relationship talks made it go away. At the time I said: "Either we open up the relationship so I can get my intellectual stimulation somewhere else or we break up" He answered that he didn't think that either of us had the stomach to open the relationship, so it would be better to just break up. I disagreed, but didn't say anything at the time.

After that I spent a lot of time with T, my best friend, who had also listened to all my problems with G over the years. G and I were still living together and I needed to gain some distance and perspective. At that stage I knew though that I didn't think monogamy would ever work for me again, as I was expecting everything from one person, which is simply unrealistic. There would NEVER be a person to fulfill all my needs. After a while T and I started sleeping with each other, but I made it clear that I didn't want a serious relationship at the moment and that even if there would be one, it would not be mono. T accepted that and said that from what he saw in his circle of friends, poly worked better anyway and he was happy in a poly set up. I was his first everything so he didn't really have an previous experience he could take a preference from.

While I was over at T's, G came to visit us with our little dog and we ended up having more fun than I had had in ages. G and I actually had a few honest conversations and some genuine fun, which hadn't happened in ages. T made a real effort to get on well with G, who he so far had been mainly friends with as my boyfriend. Thus the idea came to me that may be the opening up part wasn't so ludicrous after all. When I got back home, I asked G if he'd be willing to give it another try, but this time in a poly relationship. He had a long hard think about it for several weeks and then essentially said that he wasn't willing to say he couldn't do it until he had tried it - however he would only be comfortable with T as my other boyfriend and he didn't want to be in a relationship with more than 3, thus essentially limiting T to being mono and me to never exploring beyond a Vee.

It took T and me a lot of thinking and discussion before we agreed to it, at which stage we started a "test run". At the beginning G kept saying things like "if this works" or "if we are still together by then" which really hurt me, as I was trying hard to rebuild our original relationship while also being Ts first girlfriend and splitting my time evenly. After about a month of him doing that, I told him that I felt he was being really unfair as he expected me and T to commit ourselves completely emotionally, but wasn't willing to do so himself. That lead to some more thinking and him agreeing to not do it anymore.

We have been doing fairly well ever since. G is still a bit uncomfortable with two people being romantic in the presence of the third, but he says that he will really just need time. Actually with most things he was uncomfortable with - time solved the problem. We are looking to move in together in August. Gs main worry was to become a third wheel, so I have put a lot of effort into making sure he doesn't and I split myself more or less even.

G has gained both a more relaxed me and not getting shouted at if he doesn't have an opinion. I still ask his opinion, but if he doesn't have one I just move on. He also enjoys listening to other people chatter on high brow topics more than saying anything himself, so he quite enjoys listening to T and me. On top of that, he has gained a close male friend, which I think actually means quite a lot to him, as he can be very socially awkward and has a hard time making friends. He has two female friends at work, but that is more or less it. He really enjoys his "guy" time with T and having someone who is enthusiastic about similar things. I also have a fairly precarious health and regularly need to be looked after, so having someone to share that with is much more relaxing for him.

T has gained a girlfriend and the fact I don't get upset with him if he is being antisocial or doesn't want to do certain things. I just do them with G instead. He has also gained a dog, although I am not too sure how happy he is with that part :P He's lost the ability to search for someone else - potentially a boyfriend (he's bi), but says that that doesn't really bother him.

TL;DR: I suggested opening the relationship to G before breaking up. He said no and we broke up. I got together with T who knew I'd want to be poly. G and I decided to give it another try after lots of thinking. He put down very strict ground rules. He was initially unwilling to commit emotionally, but changed that after we had a chat. We've been happy as a closed, non hierarchical MFM Vee since.

G has gained a close friend and a much happier girlfriend I feel, as well as someone to help him care for ill girlfriend for girlfriend is ill a lot. He also now doesn't feel like he has to fulfill all my needs anymore which is much more relaxing for him.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-07-2012, 09:52 PM
Anneintherain's Avatar
Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 821
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
In what ways.? Doesn't it get very subjective if it's different ways/things being wieghed against another persons list. Was your husband planning to remain mono.....was that factored into your benefit analysis? Like the case here.
Of course it's going to be subjective!

When we met, I had a very active sex drive, my husband has a lower libido, worries about objectifying women, guilt thinking of sex as "fun". He also didn't know how to say "no thank you" so my self esteem took a beating, and it was very confusing to me. I think of sex as a joyful thing that I want to do with him often, and instead it was a source of awkwardness and tension. I was not willing to spend the rest of my life without regular comfortable + positive sexual experiences. If I was able to find this elsewhere it followed it would take some of the pressure off of him, and of course this was what he was reluctant about, the belief that if we started dating again it was because he was failing in some way. I did not start dating until he realized that it did not mean that at all.

On his end, he's, extroverted, loves to socialize, meet new people, & entertain. When we met this was OK because we discussed he'd meet some of those needs elsewhere, I'm introverted and like a good amount of alone time. It turns out his comfort meeting new people is really only via dating, so monogamy = him getting co-dependant and expecting to operate as an "us" socially instead of doing his own things, leading to pressure me and be disappointed when I didn't want to go everywhere he did. His dating has decreased that pressure on me, and he's also found some board game groups he's comfortable going by himself when I am not in the mood to join him.

Originally he was going to be monogamous (at least sexually). I encouraged him to flirt with somebody he was meeting for coffee and he started dating before I did. He agreed he would not become sexually involved with others if he wasn't working actively to get more comfortable with sex, be it counseling, working on his own self esteem, reading all those lovely self help books, making himself ask me to cuddle or make out, etc. It was going well but he started slacking on that stuff and it became an issue again, so he chose to stop dating earlier this year, and refocus on those things (both relationships he was in stopped short of intercourse). So mono-poly was factored in my benefit analysis, the depression of having sex be such a negative thing when it should be a positive thing meant staying monogamous was leading to a slow death of our relationship, no matter how great everything else was.


Wordy enough?
__________________
Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have.

Last edited by Anneintherain; 07-07-2012 at 10:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:21 PM.