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  #121  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:47 AM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by newtoday View Post
This didn't happen to me, it happened to Mercury. My bf and I are stronger than ever! He actually has assured me quite adamantly that, after 2 years together, I am too important to him to be veto'd.

But, I am with you on one thing, if this thing with him does end at some point for whatever reason, and I were to encounter this situation again, I, too, would probably say No, thank you. I don't want to be at the mercy of any Primary who changed their mind.
Oh, I knew who was vetoed. I probably just quoted something of yours to illustrate or respond to regarding vetos in general. I'm glad things are going well for you.
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  #122  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:57 AM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post

Just a little before we planned to meet for a first date (I still wasn't that into it but was willing to meet for a first date) I happened to find out from just randomly looking at the Facebook page of a casual classmate of mine (not a good friend) that he was in an open relationship with her. He/she were in a few pictures together.

I confronted him about it on the phone: "Are you in an open relationship?"

He said yes, and that he was planning to tell me on the first date. I didn't want to get involved (I wasn't judgmental of them; I just said "Well, I understand that y'all are in an open relationship, but seeing as how i know her, I think I'll pass." -- but then he talked me into meeting him.
See, this would have bugged me to begin with. I would have felt there was less than entirely upfront honesty.

Quote:
I don't know how well he could have pulled off "equal" -- I know that was his and their intent. But that's all easier said than done.

I think for some women, they want to be the Chief and you to be the Indian, even if just subtly.

I can't have that.
And you shouldn't have to. And the thing is, I see a few people here who appear to be pulling off the equal fairly well, but when I look at my situation, no, I will never be 'equal' to his wife, and really, I don't think anyone should be equal to his wife. They have a long history together. She has supported him through many things including financially supporting him while he worked his way up the career ladder. Now that she has some physical limitations on continuing her career full time, he largely supports her financially. I would never want to step in the middle of that. If somehow she and I both 'needed' him (emergency surgery scheduled for the same day, emotional crisis, house burned down, I don't know...), it would be morally right for him to be with her.

That doesn't in any way change my situation.
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  #123  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:58 AM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post

Thoughts?
I think it sucks.

That said, they can set up their relationship in any fashion they choose and nobody can gainsay it. I don't care for veto arrangements, myself, yet recognize that many folks do.

It really sucks to be on the receiving end of that sort of things, though there's nothing to be done about it other than walking on.
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When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
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  #124  
Old 06-27-2012, 02:07 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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I'm sorry you are hurting. :hug:

I can't really say anything more. Veto stuff... nrgh.

People always thought I was nuts when I'd ask on first dates how the exes were like and how the person likes to break up. But I always wanted to know!

Then I knew if it was destined for a break up how it would/could go down and if I wanted to even sign up for that.

I'd be unwilling to poly with a couple that really didn't have it together.

But as you say -- this is about "No... don't want to go there again and rekindle."

And if she's all blah, even if he's all yay, she could make your life hell if you DID date so I guess even if it feels yucky I rather get the chop EARLY rather than later and hear "No... don't want to go there again."

GalaGirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 06-27-2012 at 02:25 AM.
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  #125  
Old 06-27-2012, 02:07 AM
mercury mercury is offline
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Originally Posted by Pretzels View Post
Ugh, your situation sucks.

I dated a guy for four months. We had known each other for years prior to me asking his wife if I could borrow him for a night or two. They have an open marriage and I didn't want anything more than some mild companionship having been through hell in a relationship about a year earlier.

Well, it turns out that we were really good together in that way where he all of a sudden was saying things like, "If I had met you first...not that I'd want something bad to happen to my wife...."

It didn't take long for the wifey - who usually was away with anyone but him more than she was ever home - to pick up on this and start reclaiming him. I begged and pleaded for the three of us to sit down and negotiate some sort of peace. I wasn't looking to steal him away from her or his other girlfriend, but rather discuss issues and work through some of the more difficult spots.
That's totally what was happening between me and my guy. He was falling for me. He said as much. He was having a great time with me and expressing such extreme attraction and so many proclamations of "I can see us really lasting and becoming something..." He told me (even just within 4 weeks) that he could see me living with him (she and he do not live together; they are not married).

But I think she caught on to it being very much a match between me and him. And that caught her off guard. I actually had coffee with her one time during the time I was seeing him. We talked about some basic things, and though she was very mature in words, her facial expressions were of fear and jealousy. She looked even like she was about to cry a few times. I also said to her, very straight-forwardly: "Are you sure you want this? Because I know the way these things work. You think you don't want someone all to yourself, but then as soon as you see them with someone else, happy, you start to want them more. I've seen it happen in various contexts, not just poly..." (And I have).

And though, at the time, she behaved herself to the extent that she didn't demand that he and I split, she did do the whole "reclaiming" him in the time he and I were apart and when I came back.

I mentioned in my other post that he had "single" on his OkCupid when I met him (with the intent to tell dates about his open relationship status on the first date). But I have noticed that now his and her profiles are completely different. They say "in an open relationship with my girlfriend. We're both looking to date other people casually, but it could become long term if you're willing to be a part of our open relationship."

In other words, after me, she apparently developed a greater sense of "coveting" him, and their profiles reflect that.

I think, by all means, that I was a severe threat to their relationship. She and I are pretty equal in tons of ways. Same education level, same profession, same interests and hobbies (we were in grad school together in the same field; it only makes sense we're the same "type"). I was real competition to her somehow, and that didn't sit well with her. Now she's got him on a very short leash (shorter than ever before) and won't let me have any part of him.

So...I "get" what happened. I still just think it's lame, though, because being poly means letting your partner love someone else. To me, that's something you have to open yourself up to. You can't implicitly stipulate that your partner can love someone else as long as he/she (the partner) doesn't love that someone else too too much. I mean...silly.

I was willing to be with him even though he had her (and that would be a challenge for me) -- why couldn't she do the same? And I'm not even the one who calls myself "biologically poly" (as she does). Why is it that a mono is willing to be poly but a poly is not wiling to be poly?
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  #126  
Old 06-27-2012, 02:12 AM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
I mentioned in my other post that he had "single" on his OkCupid when I met him (with the intent to tell dates about his open relationship status on the first date). But I have noticed that now his and her profiles are completely different. They say "in an open relationship with my girlfriend. We're both looking to date other people casually, but it could become long term if you're willing to be a part of our open relationship."

In other words, after me, she apparently developed a greater sense of "coveting" him, and their profiles reflect that.
See to me, I think it's more honest to say upfront that he's in an open relationship. He isn't single. I'd be quite unhappy trading e-mails, expecting a truly single guy, going to meet him, and finding out he actually has a girlfriend. He may be 'available,' but is not 'single.'
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  #127  
Old 06-27-2012, 02:13 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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I mentioned in my other post that he had "single" on his OkCupid when I met him (with the intent to tell dates about his open relationship status on the first date). But I have noticed that now his and her profiles are completely different. They say "in an open relationship with my girlfriend. We're both looking to date other people casually, but it could become long term if you're willing to be a part of our open relationship
That's more honest from the get go at least. Then if a person were to think about dating him they know the situation better than "single" would demarcate.

They are open and looking to date and hoping for people who fit into their tribe/network whatevers.

Sounds like both you and they learned something from the experience.

Quote:
I confronted him about it on the phone: "Are you in an open relationship?"

He said yes, and that he was planning to tell me on the first date. I didn't want to get involved (I wasn't judgmental of them; I just said "Well, I understand that y'all are in an open relationship, but seeing as how i know her, I think I'll pass." -- but then he talked me into meeting him.
You listen to your gut more.

They get it out there earlier rather than announcing while actually on the first date.

It's like a wasted first date if the person doesn't want ANYTHING to do with open things.

GalaGirl
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  #128  
Old 06-27-2012, 02:24 AM
ViableAlternative ViableAlternative is offline
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I also am "anti veto".

There are a few people in the world that, if a lover of mine chooses to date, would cause me to end the relationship with said lover. But they're pretty extreme cases, involving people who have committed abuses against me or my family or children. I feel that someone who chooses to date those abusers is experiencing a lapse of judgement significant enough to be dangerous to me.

But there's an enormous difference between "You can't date him/her! Waa!" and. "I can't have that person that close to my life. Date them if you choose, and that's okay, but I need to remove myself from this situation." One of those statements seeks to control another person's autonomy. The other is practicing my own autonomy. Though the end result may in fact be that my lover chooses not to involve him/herself with the person because they want to keep their relationship with me intact, it is not because I am forcing their hand. The end result might be that I leave the lover instead, and while that would suck, I couldn't live with myself if I were to be so controlling.

I also won't date someone who requires some kind of veto rights. That is a complete deal breaker for me, I think.

Last point. While I do feel that it is "wrong" for the girlfriend to have vetoed you, the only person you can blame for your ex-slash-potential-boyfriend's actions and choices is, actually, him. And only him, really. He accepts a veto condition in his relationship. That's his prerogative. Don't villainize her more than him; neither are without responsibility here. I can sympathize with the desire to condemn her because you don't want to be angry at him, but he is entirely responsible for his choices. And that sucks pretty bad.

Sorry you're going through this.... take good care of yourself while you're healing from this hurt.

Last edited by ViableAlternative; 06-27-2012 at 02:29 AM.
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  #129  
Old 06-27-2012, 02:45 AM
mercury mercury is offline
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Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
And you shouldn't have to. And the thing is, I see a few people here who appear to be pulling off the equal fairly well, but when I look at my situation, no, I will never be 'equal' to his wife, and really, I don't think anyone should be equal to his wife. They have a long history together. She has supported him through many things including financially supporting him while he worked his way up the career ladder. Now that she has some physical limitations on continuing her career full time, he largely supports her financially. I would never want to step in the middle of that. If somehow she and I both 'needed' him (emergency surgery scheduled for the same day, emotional crisis, house burned down, I don't know...), it would be morally right for him to be with her.
It's very respectful of you to have that stance - that his wife is rightfully his priority. To some extent, I felt that in my situation as well, but only a little. The poly couple in my situation had circumstances very different from from a life time (or even a decade or so) of being a "team." They met in March of 2010. Heck, *I've* known her for longer than he has (although...as I mentioned, I only knew her as a distant classmate). At any rate, they've only been together two years, and they're not married.

Also, as I understood it, she didn't want to live with him. There was a lot about them that struck me as "you guys aren't so together, are you?" I think now they are more so (emotionally, even if still not live-in) because somehow the threat of me made her appreciate him more. But then, I didn't see them as having some sacred bond that I'd be so wrong to intrude upon. He was singing an "equal relationships" tune to me the whole time, and I took him at his word. And I think he really wanted that with me. But she wasn't crazy about that once it started to go into effect.

I really didn't want to displace her (when I attempted the reconnect). I understood that they'd been together for a while and had a bond. I wouldn't have minded being a good friend to her and supporting her relationship with him. But she didn't give me a chance. I do contend, though, that it would've needed to be pretty equal for me to be happy long term.

I respect your ability to respect a wife who's been there for her husband for years and years. And on some theoretical level, I would too and know that I should. But emotionally, for me, it wouldn't matter what she did for him for how many years; I don't want to be significantly less important than another woman. I just don't think I could be happy that way.

I think I actually COULD do poly, but it would have to be with a couple who's extremely mature and equality-minded about it. And I get the sense that that's as rare as "unicorns" (lol). I think more often than not, it's a primary couple that's working (either one or both of them) really hard to protect the sanctity of their relationship and will sacrifice anybody else's feelings to do it. I'm not saying they don't have a right to do that. I'm just saying that's not the type of poly couple I could be involved with. I need the type of poly couple who knows how to put the "amorous" in polyamorous. A lot of poly people are just poly without being amorous.
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  #130  
Old 06-27-2012, 02:48 AM
mercury mercury is offline
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Originally Posted by ViableAlternative View Post
Last point. While I do feel that it is "wrong" for the girlfriend to have vetoed you, the only person you can blame for your ex-slash-potential-boyfriend's actions and choices is, actually, him. And only him, really. He accepts a veto condition in his relationship. That's his prerogative. Don't villainize her more than him; neither are without responsibility here. I can sympathize with the desire to condemn her because you don't want to be angry at him, but he is entirely responsible for his choices. And that sucks pretty bad.

Sorry you're going through this.... take good care of yourself while you're healing from this hurt.
Thanks for your thoughts! I'll probably respond to other parts of your post later, but just wanted to acknowledge this (the above) now.

I do blame him too.

And I know, ultimately, that obviously he couldn't have wanted me THAT much if he obeyed the veto.

I just remember those wonderful times we had and how much he seemed to want to fall in love when we were together.

But you're right. It's not all her. It's him obeying her, too. And that means he never had any true feelings for me anyway.

All the more reason why I'm better off.

Yet it still stings...
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agreements, contracts, control issues, envy, jealous, jealousy, metamour concerns, new to poly, nre, relationship dynamics, relationship issues, secondaries, secondary, sex, veto, veto policy, veto power, vetos

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