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  #31  
Old 06-16-2012, 05:23 AM
km34 km34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
Phone sex = sex! (the brain is the biggest erogenous zone, after all)
Long distance domming = domming! (what the hell else would you call it???)
Yes!

I don't consider anything overtly sexual flirting - to me, flirting is playful and fun and teasing without actually bringing sex into the conversation at all. Sure, sexual overtones are there, but there is no actual sexual interaction. My definition of flirting.

Honesty is crucial. It doesn't sound like he's being honest with anyone here since he's lying to himself about what the boundaries mean, lying to you about what he's doing, and lying to the people he's involved with (if he has discussed what is and isn't okay with them, anyway). Once again, though, I'm one of those people that believes hiding something is lying while some people thing that it's only lying if you actually tell a falsehood. Even if he isn't outright lying to your or the people he's involved with, he's misleading in a big way.

What do you feel is unfair about your expectations? They all seem pretty reasonable to me. maybe the ban on anything BDSM-related could be a bit harsh, although I understand that a true D/s relationship can be very intense and requires attention and energy, I would think he could engage in some minor BDSM activities without it really affecting his other relationships. I may be wrong here, though, since I'm not really versed on those practices. The principle of the matter is that he agreed to the boundaries, though, and should have approached you to discuss changing them instead of just bending them to what he wanted them to be.
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  #32  
Old 06-18-2012, 03:03 PM
GreenMom GreenMom is offline
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Thank you all for your responses. It helps to not feel like I am overreacting or I am the only one that would not define those behaviors as flirting.

To address a question asked to me - I don't actually feel any of my requested boundaries are unfair since he chose to agree to them when we discussed both of our boundaries. I know boundaries will vary in every relationship, so the only true barometer of what is and is not fair is what the people involved agree to. Perhaps the D/s one is a bit restrictive, but he agreed to it. It if was not something he could adhere to, he should have spoken up during one of our many discussions about boundaries rather than agreeing to follow it.

We had lots of social plans this weekend - all with our book club friends of course - one of whom is the women he has been a phone/online "Dom" to for at least a month now if not longer. She and I talked one on one, because after I freaked out at hubby, he called her to see "what she had told me". Hmm, sound like someone knows he done screwed up? She told me that what he said of the boundaries in our relationship was simply as long as it was not physical it was ok, and that I did not want to hear details (well, that part is true - I don't want a play by play if and when he has relations with others). She is mortified, scared she has ruined her friendship with me by believing what they were doing was cool by me when it was not, angry at him for misleading her, etc. So it was a very awkward weekend to say the least, but I think we all did a good job of ignoring the elephant in the room so that the gathering as a whole could still be positive and enjoyable by those present.

I find myself today feeling more tired and resigned than angry or sad. I already know I am not leaving him or ending our marriage at this time. He seems to think everything is just hunky dory since he tried initiating sex this morning and I had to bluntly tell him "remember how I said I was going to ignore the issue to enjoy my weekend? well, the weekend is over, and the issue has not gone away". My initial burst of anger burned out pretty quickly - it had to, since I learned of this on my drive home, and I had to be normal happy mommy for my kids when I got home. And then the social stuff and etc.

Today is a quiet day so I find myself with more time to think and I just don't really know what I even want to do about this. Obviously we have to talk about it, but what can i tell him? He needs to stop having these relationships that went against my boundaries? The woman in question from this weekend told me if that is what I decide, we'll still be friends, but will we really? Or will this be a repeat of March?

I'm resentful that yet again, hubby's inability to respect the boundaries he agreed to has thrown drama into my small, hard-earned circle of friends.

I'm resentful that yet again, hubby's desires outweigh my feelings. I feel that he has little to no respect for me.

I'm surprised that I am not more angry, or sad, or upset today. I'm mostly just tired. I guess I'm not really surprised by any of this, and in a way, have waited for it to happen after the March debacle.
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  #33  
Old 06-18-2012, 05:26 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMom View Post
It if was not something he could adhere to, he should have spoken up during one of our many discussions about boundaries rather than agreeing to follow it.
Sometimes, we go into situations with the best of intentions and find out later that we have overestimated our own abilities. YES, he should have spoken up as soon as he realized that staying within the boundaries the two of you set up was not working. However, maybe it's time to re-negotiate the boundaries based on what you have now learned.

It is not uncommon to have completely different views/definitions of words and conversations (even everyday common words). It's okay and likely necessary for both of you to check in with each other more often about what each of you perceive the boundaries to be and give examples. Avoid all assumptions. Don't assume, he remembers all the boundaries, don't assume he understands your view of said boundary. Have him tell you what he thinks they are, likely this is where you will find the disconnect.
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  #34  
Old 06-18-2012, 05:31 PM
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I second SN's post. I think if you can recognize how differently you guys see things, it's easier to negotiate boundaries and explain how they can work for everyone's benefit.
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  #35  
Old 06-20-2012, 12:56 PM
GreenMom GreenMom is offline
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Derrick is going between saying he "misunderstood" or "misinterpreted" the boundaries, to saying that he was deliberately looking for a loophole so he created one by telling himself it was all okay since it wasn't physical with the other women. He has confirmed that in addition to the current one, there were two others - one that was limited to online only/cyber interactions, and one that also included the phone sex.

I just don't really know how to move forward from this. I don't trust him at all. I'm not willing to end the marriage, so I have to find a way to re-build trust.

It also really isn't helping that the "current" woman keeps contacting me to apologize, which ends up turning into me reassuring her again and again that she is not the one who messed up. She seems too genuinely upset for me to believe she is lying when she says that she was told it was "all cool" with me. She and I are friends, and I feel bad that she is hurting over this, but after six days straight of lengthy talks in which I try to help her feel better, I'm rather tired of it.

No one is here to make me feel better. My best friend won't even let me tell her what the problem is, because I told her I had a problem with my husband, and since she's friends with both of us she doesn't want to be "caught in the middle". The only friend I have found willing to listen pretty much told me "and this is why I will never go poly". So because we are poly I should expect to be lied to and cheated on?

I told Marty a very undetailed version of what happened. I didn't want to involve him, because I find it a bit inappropriate to talk to one partner about the issues with another. But we started to talk about our problems, and I just snapped. I can't deal with both relationships' issues at the same time. I asked him to please give me a little time to sort out the husband stuff, and then I will be happy to continue our conversation about us. On the positive side, he admitted that he thinks a lot of his lack of desire etc with both me and his wife comes from the meds, or lack thereof. I know he is really struggling and I hope his doctor can work with him to get things sorted.

I have plans to go over and see him tonight and I'm honestly not sure which would be better - go over, watch a movie, be distracted for a couple hours - or go home, do the "i'm a normal happy mommy" thing until kids are in bed, and then get into it with Derrick again. We shall see how the day goes.
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  #36  
Old 06-20-2012, 06:13 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMom View Post
Derrick is going between saying he "misunderstood" or "misinterpreted" the boundaries, to saying that he was deliberately looking for a loophole so he created one by telling himself it was all okay since it wasn't physical with the other women. He has confirmed that in addition to the current one, there were two others - one that was limited to online only/cyber interactions, and one that also included the phone sex.
WOW! WOW! This sounds so familiar . Hugs! You are not alone, it can get better, but not overnight.

Quote:
I just don't really know how to move forward from this. I don't trust him at all. I'm not willing to end the marriage, so I have to find a way to re-build trust.
No, he has to find a way to re-build your trust. Unless he is willing to do the work, trust can't be re-built. He has to ask what's needed, even if your answer for a while is "I don't know". It is important that you tell him "I don't trust you at ALL. I don't know how this can be fixed, but I hope WE can." Then stop talking about it for a while.

You need a break from the drama and hurt. Get out of the house, do stuff that makes you feel good. Have a spa day, get your hair done, go to the movies with your girl friends and DON'T talk about any of this stuff. Re-hashing everything every day is not helpful to finding workable solutions. Try setting aside 2 blocks of time a week, for you and your husband to address the issues (trust, boundaries, etc), the rest of the time just deal with the normal, day to day stuff. You both need time to get back into a normal routine.
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  #37  
Old 06-20-2012, 07:11 PM
GreenMom GreenMom is offline
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Thanks for your support, SNeacail.
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  #38  
Old 06-21-2012, 05:17 PM
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I ended up cancelling my date with Marty, so that Derrick and I could talk. I think we are on the right track, it is just going to take a long time for the trust to be rebuilt. But at least we are communicating about it and trying to move forward. We set another talking date for Friday, because there was one area we didn't really cover last night, and it got so late that we decided sleep was important.
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  #39  
Old 06-27-2012, 05:33 PM
GreenMom GreenMom is offline
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The last week has been really difficult. I am struggling and not really sure what else to do about it other than what I've put in motion. Derrick and I were able to have a long talk on Weds. It went really well and I felt it was the first step towards healing the broken trust. We even had sex afterwards which felt like a good reconnection and reaffirmation of our mutual devotion to each other and making the marriage work. But then on Thursday, we argued about the situation again, which cultimated in him screaming at me about how unfair I was being and that I was lying by calling him dishonest, etc, and I ended up feeling sick to my stomach. I calmly explained by side of things to him, and he apologized, and then he went back to acting like everything was just peaches and cream.

I felt sick that I had let my walls down enough to make love to him again. I felt sick that he could turn from civility and contrition, to screaming bloody murder at me, to carrying on pleasantly as if there are no issues.

I don't know what to do because I feel like since I have chosen not to end the marriage over this, I am expected to just go along like things are fine. But they aren't.

Things with Marty are not fine either, as anyone who reads this thread knows they haven't been for a while, but I just don't have the energy to address it right now so I'm staying in the holding pattern. I wish I could count on him for support in this difficult time. But with his anxiety disorder so badly out of control, he is in no shape to offer much support to anyone. I am beyond gladdened that he went into a new therapist on Monday, and will be resuming weekly therapy with this new practitioner. I hope he is back on his meds soon.

I have a regular physical with my doctor next week, and I will be asking for a referral to a therapist. I need someone to talk to about all these issues who isn't a relative or a friend. I know I'll have to be careful with how I mention the polyamory angle - if at all - but just having a safe place to talk and maybe get advice on how to manage stress and etc will be potentially very beneficial to me.

In the mean time, I am struggling with reclaiming my own self worth/self confidence. I'm a bit embarrased to be in the position I am, and disappointed in myself for apparently having so much of my confidence wrapped up in how my relationships are doing (or not doing). The fact that my husband repeatedly lied to me and went behind my back, and that my boyfriend rarely wants to touch me and seems to have every excuse in the book to avoid any "date" that isn't us hanging at his house with his wife and child, put together at the same time, combined with everything else... it has me feeling about the lowest I have felt in my adult life.

It also doesn't help that my effort to find a new friend or two - and maybe even someone to date - have failed pretty abysmally. I was speaking with one person who seemed a potential person to date, but that fizzled as soon as he saw my picture. I was speaking to another person who seemed like a potential friend, and that fizzled when he saw my picture. I was speaking to a third person, and he hasn't seen my picture yet but just has little time for emailing, so its been really hard to establish what common ground there could be. The old gaming buddy I came across never responded to the email I sent him almost a month ago. So between having no luck even making a new friend this month let alone making a date with anyone, and feeling blown off by the two men already in my life... meh.
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Last edited by GreenMom; 06-27-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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  #40  
Old 06-27-2012, 07:56 PM
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I don't really know what to say, I just want to say I am sorry that you are feeling this way and are going such a rough time. This sounds horrible. Are you a person who suffers privately and quietly or does your husband know how much you hurt? Because this behaviour is unacceptable. I really wish for you to be able to put your foot down for yourself and make this clear to him. It can't continue like that.

And don't feel too down because someone didn't wanted to be your friend because of the way you look. They weren't after your friendship obviously, if they are bothered by this. What kind of criteria is the look of a person for a friendship? Geez ... Don't be too disappointed because of this, you will be better off without them.

And again a 'don't': Don't depend on others to determine your worth. I second your idea to talk to a therapist about this, it should definitely help to get some things cleared and out of the way. Your inner world is totally healthy and intact, as you clearly can feel the pain this situation is causing you and it would be strange if you would have felt otherwise. Don't stop believing in yourself, just because the people around you have some problems with their perception and aren't able to treat you with the respect you deserve.

Hugs to you, I hope things will be better soon.
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