I Lost a Friend Because I Came Out To Her Tonight...

[PinkDragon]

Imaginary,right. I was half asleep when I wrote that. I /meant/ polygamy.

That's what I get for sleep-posting!

[ImaginaryIllusion]

I'd just like to remind everyone in case you missed it, that this is in the blogs section, and the respect due that status still applies.

[PolyMister]

I don't believe that I was preachy. I did not tell her she had to be like me, or that she would be better off like me. I didn't say that monogamist viewpoints were invalid. What I said was that I (MYSELF, not that all people should) find monogamy would be like considering myself to be someone's property and it's not something that I would like.

I never once said she was dumb, or stupid or anything cruel for what she thought about it. She did however tell me that what I feel, and what many of you share with me was "wrong". She didn't say "jeez, you're weird" she said that it was wrong, as in unethical, as in it shouldn't exist.

And no, LotusesandRoses, I even said in the conversation with her if you'd read it over again that, and I quote, "All I was looking for was to be accepted for what I was. I wasn't saying you had to be like it to... But you told me that I had to be like you..." and at no point did I push the idea on her that she should be polyamorous, she did however say plenty of things that sounded to me, an awful lot like she was telling me that I shouldn't be what I am.

I still stand by my statement about Monogamy being a new invention, while the roman empire enforced monogamy, the majority of the upper and middle class citizens often took part in orgies, hardly monogamy. At no time did I state that polyamory was the norm.

My point was, monogamy was something that was 'enforced'. Polygamy is still non-monogamy.

Lotus - for some of us it is part of our identity, just as much as being gay, straight, or bi. And it is just as painful to force onself to behave differently. Just because it isn't that way for you, doesn't mean you have all the answers either.

Thank you BrigidsDaughter for understanding where I'm coming from. I never chose to be polyamorous, it just happened and has been like it ever since I can remember. I am not a polyamorous because I want to see other people, I am polyamorous because I tend to fall in love with people. Sometimes without even realizing it until I already am. When I say polyamorous, I do literally mean "many love". Not "we should be polyamorous because I want to experiment with my sexuality".

****Edit****
I would have been happy to apologize to "S" for what was said, and to try and work things out, but I logged into Skype a few moments ago to find that she had deleted me and now I am unable to talk to her about it.

[SNeacail]

I agree that the conversation went downhill with both of you adamantly trying to prove that your way was right. This is hardly unusual when someone you care about tells you that you are wrong. Maybe when you have had some time to get over the hurt and betrayal of all this this, you can re-read the conversation and find a better way to approach telling those close to you. Many people will have very strong knee jerk responses, opinions and misconception of what poly truly is.

Maybe just start small. "This is what the wife and I decided to do, I'd like your support". If there is a negative response, "I'm sorry you feel that way, if it would make you feel better, please feel free to talk to my wife". Then change the subject and leave it at that. Don't engage in a debate yet.

Just an idea.

[ThatGirlInGray]

Originally Posted by LotusesandRoses

Growing up queer is a lot different from being poly. I can choose how many people I sleep with or am involved with at any time. I can't choose who I'm attracted to.

Be careful with this statement. First of all, many people on this forum are not hetero and had to deal with growing up with that knowledge, as well as with the idea of being poly. Second, and on a larger scale, "You can choose who you have sex with" is one of the HUGE anti-LGBTQ arguments. There are those who say, "Fine, be attracted to someone of the same sex, just don't act on it. You might be gay but you can choose not to ACT gay." Do you really want to be told to live your life that way? I sure don't, anymore than I want someone telling me, "You could choose to just be with your husband, if you really loved him." It's insulting, because I DO really love my husband, AND I love TGIB. Yes, I could choose to act mono, just like I could choose to act straight, but I'd be miserable in either case.

As far as the OP goes, I understand being hurt. If someone I cared about who I thought knew me, respected me, and cared about me too told me what I was doing was wrong, I'd be hurt. Hopefully she'll be able get to a headspace where she can say, "It'd be wrong for me, but if it works for you and it's not hurting your partners, then it's not for me to judge." That's my "best-case scenario" when I come out to people I'm close to about poly. I don't expect agreement or even support, I just ask for the ability to be honest with them about who I am without being judged.

[LotusesandRoses]

Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray

Be careful with this statement. First of all, many people on this forum are not hetero and had to deal with growing up with that knowledge, as well as with the idea of being poly. Second, and on a larger scale, "You can choose who you have sex with" is one of the HUGE anti-LGBTQ arguments. There are those who say, "Fine, be attracted to someone of the same sex, just don't act on it. You might be gay but you can choose not to ACT gay." Do you really want to be told to live your life that way? I sure don't, anymore than I want someone telling me, "You could choose to just be with your husband, if you really loved him." It's insulting, because I DO really love my husband, AND I love TGIB. Yes, I could choose to act mono, just like I could choose to act straight, but I'd be miserable in either case.

I'm poly and pansexual. Mono people can be attracted to and love multiple people. Saying those feelings of discrimination regarding being queer vs. being poly is like comparing being gay vs. being black. It's not the same, and I feel it's insulting.

I was also aware there are people who are not straight here. My only point was is that it's not accurate to compare the two (like comparing race and sexual orientation, or gender and sexual orientation), and that the person hadn't lost a friend, and wasn't precisely an innocent victim.

[LotusesandRoses]

Originally Posted by PolyMister

I don't believe that I was preachy. I did not tell her she had to be like me, or that she would be better off like me. I didn't say that monogamist viewpoints were invalid. What I said was that I (MYSELF, not that all people should) find monogamy would be like considering myself to be someone's property and it's not something that I would like.

I never once said she was dumb, or stupid or anything cruel for what she thought about it. She did however tell me that what I feel, and what many of you share with me was "wrong". She didn't say "jeez, you're weird" she said that it was wrong, as in unethical, as in it shouldn't exist.

And no, LotusesandRoses, I even said in the conversation with her if you'd read it over again that, and I quote, "All I was looking for was to be accepted for what I was. I wasn't saying you had to be like it to... But you told me that I had to be like you..." and at no point did I push the idea on her that she should be polyamorous, she did however say plenty of things that sounded to me, an awful lot like she was telling me that I shouldn't be what I am.

[...]

****Edit****
I would have been happy to apologize to "S" for what was said, and to try and work things out, but I logged into Skype a few moments ago to find that she had deleted me and now I am unable to talk to her about it.

I'm telling you how I would have felt had you said that to me. It was talking down to her, and that she was ignorant. She thinks what you're doing is wrong. To me, that isn't worth losing a friendship over, trying to "prove" to her it's not "wrong." My pointi is this: I don't think she's mad about your polyamory. She may not like it, but it's how you said it. It doesn't mean she agrees with it, but how you say it makes a world of difference.

After all, you didn't like how I said, but not necessarily my message that you didn't handle things the best way. And if you care about the friendship, you'll call, drop by and see her, or message her on FB and apologize and not let a Skype deletion ruin things. Don't explain. Just a brief, "I'm sorry, and I hope my dating situation doesn't ruin our friendship." Short and sweet, because I guarantee she feels a lot of those negative things I mention are true, that you feel she's dumb and her beliefs are ridiculous. (And you can feel that way, but you shouldn't make friends feel that way if you can help it.)

If I've made you feel picked on, I'm sorry. I'm not coming to you saying this as a heteronormative, monogamous Betty Crocker Pamela gal or a closeted person. While we all need acceptance, you don't gain it from hesitant people by bombarding them. (Hey, you didn't adore me for what I said.)

My intention was not to hurt feelings or say it's wrong to be yourself. You don't have to explain why you're poly or why it's acceptable that you're poly to a single soul. I feel monogamy is often oppressive to women, but knowing that's a wildly unpopular opinion, even with friends I like a lot, I keep my mouth shut, because I'm probably not going to convince my beloved Baptist friend who believes in the monogamy model like I believe in gravity.

The best friends are the ones who accept you and love you as is, and you don't need to sell them on being okay with you, because it's not about the labels. It's about the person underneath that. And when you're okay with yourself, you don't need to back up who you are with windy arguments, whether it's polyamory (the Romans did it), interracial relationships (in terms of genetics, we're predisposed to be attracted to opposite features for the sake of the health of offspring), or why you really have to keep those dreadful summer colors out of your wardrobe (just makes olive skin look sallow).

From the transcripts, I don't think you lost a friend because you came out. You had a fight because you came out. And I hope no matter the result, you've learned. In my heart of hearts, I doubt your friendship is over, and I'd bet good money she's mad at what you said, not how you said it - And if I had a nickel for every time someone was mad about how I said something, I'd have a million. Look at some of my posts on here, including this one. So you can definitely trust my advice regarding putting one's foot in the ol' mouth.

[redpepper]

Originally Posted by ImaginaryIllusion

I'd just like to remind everyone in case you missed it, that this is in the blogs section, and the respect due that status still applies.

It seems that the nature of its beginnings was more about the OP questioning and looking for feed back. As that has occured I would like to move this thread elsewhere. It has taken on a life of its own at this point. If it was intended to be a blog then it can stay and continued as such. Or the OP can start a new one. Seems like a fine line on this one.

Polymister, what do you think?

[LotusesandRoses]

As I said in another post, I'm really sorry if I offended OP. That was not my intention, and apparently I was too dumb to notice this is a blog. Oops.

[PussNBoots]

Originally Posted by LotusesandRoses

He's upset because she dared to disagree with him.

If I read correctly, he's upset about a whole lot more than that. He was hoping to have a friend to confide in, someone to share his struggles with. Instead he got preached at. If I went to a trusted friend hoping for support and instead got told that what I was doing was wrong and I needed to stop, I'd be pretty upset too!

Originally Posted by LotusesandRoses

Growing up queer is a lot different from being poly. I can choose how many people I sleep with or am involved with at any time. I can't choose who I'm attracted to.

They are similar in that they will both get you ostracized by mainstream society. And you could similarly argue to a gay person that they could always choose not to sleep with people of the same gender--in fact the religious right makes that argument all the time. They argue that gay people ought to remain celibate. In the same way, if you are in love with more than one person at the same time, you cannot just "choose" to not feel that way about one of them.

Maybe you personally would have no trouble dating just one person forever. Perhaps your style is not to form a deep committed bond with multiple people, you just like having multiple sex partners. I don't know. My point is that not every polyamorous person out there necessarily feels the same way you do. Having to say "no" to someone you really love is a heartbreaking ordeal, whether it is in the context of a gay person believing (or being told by society) he can't be with the man he loves or a polyamorous person believing (or being told by society) he can't be with both of the women he loves. It's the same thing. The existence of one relationship does not make the breaking of another relationship any less painful.