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  #1361  
Old 06-05-2012, 02:44 AM
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Maybe if he had mentioned he has a friend he's really connecting with in mid February there would of been a chance to develop something? I don't know. Right now I am more concerned about what I will do and if I can accept.
My friend....

May I have the privilege of giving you a quiet, loving word of warning?

Many times over the last few years, when I've wondered and when Maca has wondered if there was anyway we could deal with the "newest" nightmare in our poly experience,

We've turned to words of wisdom-written by you and Mono.
The most distinctly clear message we've received, over and over, is not to make decisions in the heat of the moment, because emotions come and they go.

You're hurting-and that is totally ok!
But, you love him.
Every person makes mistakes, and I'm not saying it's not a big mistake to shut down and back away.
But, from the perspective of someone whose been on the sidelines making huge mistakes as frequently as most people change their panties,
this seems to me to be a mistake that was almost destined. Mono has expressed often his lack of experience and understanding of poly. So, it's not surprising that he would fail to make the "poly-expected" move when he suddenly found himself experiencing what he didn't believe he could.

THAT DOESN'T IN ANYWAY mean you don't have a right to be hurt. PLEASE don't misread my words.
But, maybe it does mean looking back at history and seeing, did you make serious errors of similarity when you were starting out? I know I have. I know Maca has. I think many of us has.

Only you two can decide the future for yourselves. BUT, don't make decisions in the midst of your heartbreak flooding over you sweetie. YOU deserve the time to work through your heartbreak before deciding what the consequences will be of the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Right now I need a good sleep. I haven't slept and neither has he. Talking and laying there quietly awake all night. Over come with emotion.
Sleep is critical-and when your emotions are so high, it's hard to come by. I wonder if it's not time for a jog by the ocean? I haven't heard you mention doing that in awhile (obviously, you could have, I only keep up via fb, just thought, it might help).
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  #1362  
Old 06-05-2012, 02:53 AM
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Things are not changed as much as I first thought, although my trust has been thrown to the wall.


Oh ya, and I am dealing with people telling me I'm hypocritical and that I have lots of loves, so I should just suck it up.
First, congrats on holding it together for a couple of days, to the point of realizing that things aren't as bad as it felt at first.

Second, congrats on realizing that it is still broken trust and that will need to be addressed.

Third, fuck other people RP. I'm serious. I could be wrong-God knows I am often enough, but I can't find it in myself to believe that Mono would say that you are being hypocritical.
You're hurt.
You're working together to deal with the cause of that hurt.

It's not hypocritical to expect from someone what they say they are giving you-even if what they offer you is different from what you offer them!

A parent gives a child something COMPLETELY different than what a child gives a parent.

Likewise, what I give GG is TOTALLY different than what he offers me and what I give Maca is different than what he gives me and what I give each of them is different from what I offer the other one!

We're INDIVIDUALS.
You and Mono are different people offering each other what you as INDIVIDUALS can offer and something changed for him-without you being told. That hurts.
It's not hypocrisy to be hurt by it.

To me, based on what I've gleaned thus far, he failed to trust you and in doing so, has given you cause to fear trusting him.
THAT makes PERFECT sense to me.

I depend on the trust in my relationships and using GG (since he's mono) as an example, if he suddenly quit confiding in me-regardless of whether or not there existed a new love in his life-it would be a HUGE problem because my trust would falter. It would falter, because that would be such a significant change from who I understand him to be and who I understand US to be.

So, tell people to screw off if they can't comprehend it. They aren't part of your relationship.

As for you, Mono, PN and boy, hugs hugs hugs hugs.
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  #1363  
Old 06-05-2012, 03:00 AM
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Exactly, and yes, I have asked him to tell anyone who asks that this is my issue. Would I prefer she wasn't around at all? Well hell ya! I loved my mono bf being all mine. Stupid huh? I feel like an idiot for falling for that bullshit. A victim of our cultural programming. Embarrassing. I feel stupid and embarrassed.
No, not stupid, human.
Welcome to humanity sweetie.

And, I agree with dinged,
in the big picture, not the today picture, but the big picture,
I think this learning curve very well may be cause to celebrate.

Not that anyone is changing necessarily-but that you have faced a hurdle, a big hurdle and found the weaknesses in your form so you can improve.
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  #1364  
Old 06-05-2012, 04:34 AM
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Poor guy, he might just of tried to hide it so he wouldn't get my tidal wave of process process processssss. Ha! Too late, it is his punishment now. lol
Now I'm picturing you in a leather bustier and high boots, brandishing your flogger and hissing, "Process!!!"
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  #1365  
Old 06-05-2012, 04:34 AM
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Thanks Arrowbound, its people who are not poly that think that way. They don't understand. The woman in question is confused by my reaction also. She doesn't relate to what I am feeling I don't think and carries on as if Mono is just one of many to me. I know she just doesn't understand but to me it makes me feel like people think he is dispensible to me. He is far from it. I intend to fight for what we have and make this a learning curve.

In the mono world it would be a matter or telling him to cut her out entirely or him leaving me for her. I am not suggesting either, but working through it so they can be together in whatever way they want. I can see, that in me doing that, it would be expected some how, but for different reasons. I have other partners after all so I should stop whining and let him do what he wants. Off course its completely not like that, but how does someone explain that to people. I hope this made sense, lol.
Makes perfect sense. People tell other people to suck it up in monogamous marriages and relationships all the time! Never mind that this is something you BOTH need to work through. Y'all live together and are a family for god sakes.



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Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
Well, as I understand, you had an agreement and he didn't hold to it, and if he had told you about it when it first happened you would have walked through it together. So the problem isn't the concept of him being with someone else but the idea that he went behind your back, and the breach of trust. Maybe if you explain it that way more people would understand.

Agreed.



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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
I guess what meant with the idea of a clash in hard ideologies is no one wants to be a hypocrite and neither of you would want to admit those shifts ....although you just did And with each of these hard positions assumptions and possible projections got made.

Actually your response to Tonberry reflects that poly hardline falling for the bullshit ...victim to cultural programming.

I understand the trust issue but how much different is this from bending/breaking a boundary you had set with PN or mono in regards to Leo or someone else. With all the lectures, events, forum talk , etc, etc could you frame it as you finally got through....He might finally get it on with life. Couldn't this be a moment to celebrate once the sting is gone.


Have you 2 thought about counseling ? Its recommended here all the time but because of your position here people might not think of that.... and you might not have thought of it.
You know, that never occurred to me. Or maybe it did but I never referred to it as cultural programming polywise, lol.

I too see this as being a potentially awesome shift if everything goes well. I don't think I ever saw myself as mono even before I met my SO but I've still come a long way in terms of understanding myself and how I love others, and a sense of belonging as well. It'd be nice to know that Mono has joined the fray in that sense.
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  #1366  
Old 06-05-2012, 05:02 PM
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I just wanted to say good luck, and thank you.

It's interesting what people get from wanting to learn about themselves. As well because of on line communities such as this there are entire new ways to share information and support.

I've read your blog from start to finish, it's weird because I almost feel like I know you, and most of the extended family you mention. It's strange to be pulling for folks I've never met, but there it is.

A few posts back you lamented about if you overwhelmed the people around you, in another post you wondered if your loves felt neglected occasionally ... Not long before that the posts were "everything was right with your world" uber happy etc.

Look I'm not just a relative poly novice, I'm a complete novice ... Relatively I'm subterranean novice ! --- but on the surface it is often said that people exploring this lifestyle often have to move at the pace of the slowest person.

As I read about the latest developments and your raw feelings of late .... I couldn't help but wonder how much a role process, time and your aforementioned potentially overwhelming personality might have played into this. Sometimes our strengths are also our weaknesses.

You've described mono as a loving caring man who is intensely private in some ways.

You had just come through some emotional turmoil, some of which rightly or wrongly he likely felt some guilt about because he felt he might have been holding you back ...... In short order you'd met and developed an interest in a couple of other individuals ( who sound great btw) .... You certainly seemed very happy about this, that's a no-brainer I mean how were you supposed to feel ? ..... But my point is that during this time He was doing some soul searching as well. Researching, thinking, peeling his own onions so to speak and during that time became closer to a friend and some feelings surfaced.

I think I totally get where you are comming from in terms of withholding information, but I guess I'm unclear exactly when it would have been a good time to bring you into the loop? You were healing and branching out and seemingly quite happy with his new found ability to move or remove a boundary / negotiated line in the sand that had been up untill now a unique compromise that was one of the structural foundations of your relationship.

I might be simplifying it entirely too much but, your posts seemed to indicate (to me) that you weren't quite sure what was going on with mono but he seemed full of compersion ..... And that was good enough for you to change up some relationship dynamics ( again with full disclosure, totally above board etc) rather quickly. This all seemed to make you very happy. If we saw this I'm confident he did as well...... But what I'm saying is that not knowing exactly why this was occurring did not stop you from taking advantage of the opportunities this new found boundary lifting / erasing created , during a time when you were also hurting.

It seems to me that an equally probable scenario that could have unfolded is that mono could have come back and said "I thought I could do things differently, I didn't want you to be hurt again etc ..... But i'm sorry I can't. That would be a pickle too wouldn't it? For at least 4 people directly if my count is correct.

I mean you have repeated so many times on this board how this compromise worked, and certainly not with a self pity theme ---- but any way you cut it you needed to forego additional relationships, for you two to be together. It's interesting though because I think one of the things you got out of this was to have mono's undevided romantic attention ..... You referenced this thought verbatim --- a few posts back but I don't recall that revelation occurring before (though there are thousands of posts so I could have missed it) ..... I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, just that it's interesting if this is the first you've really thought about that.

All I know is that my understanding was that adding additional people coupled with either yourself or mono was historically seen as a potential detrimental to your dynamic as you know it. Maybe your emotional relationship with Leo placed him outside his comfort zone ... And while not always pleasant, caused some growth.... Leading to him to some thought changes.
Regardless you seemed to change the gears rather quickly and embraced the situation with your usual energy, your already busy schedule got busier. To the subject at hand Perhaps he did choose not to discuss it with you, but you guys are discussing it now, not much has happened as I understand it .... But I can understand the bad feelings you have that perhaps border on betrayal ......
I also understand mono's initial thoughts on the subject better.

I hope everything all works out, and for what it is worth I sincerely wish you luck.
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  #1367  
Old 06-05-2012, 08:56 PM
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Thank you all for the responses, support and thoughts.

Nycindie- you made me smile. Thank you. I do feel a bit like that in moments, and then crumble

LR- you are a dear. Thanks for letting me text your face off and thanks for all your knowledge, I will heed what you say and just feel the emotions before making decisions. You are so wise.

Arrowbound- thanks for your input and wisdom also.

Outsider- it was me who said it first "go at the pace of the one who is struggling the most." I am glad of the reminder and am thinking now of just who it is who is struggling most in all this. ??? You hit the nail on the head several times about what Mono and I have talked about and what he has said about his experience in this. There are other factors that I can't share, but the general idea you have understood. I guess the more I write about our process the more it will become evident how much.
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  #1368  
Old 06-05-2012, 09:51 PM
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Last night I tried to respect Mono's wishes to have less talking and more just being together. That worked for some time and eventually he opened up a bit. Its hard to know where to start with all the things that have been said. What I got most of all is that this woman was uncomplicated and spending time with her was essentially a break from me and what was going on for me. He wants to keep that in his life and apparently not take it further than that. I've heard that many many times before, but the trust isn't there. It will come I think.

He told me some of what they talk about in more depth, which I appreciated as I have been asking for him to tell me what is going on, but it was hard to hear. Hard to hear that they share anything at all really. Especially since I thought it was just me he shares with.

He thinks that she is really interested in poly and if there was a chance she would want him as a bf. Also hard to hear. Somehow it became more evident last night that is also about what she wants and what this has opened up for her. Sure, I knew that was a factor, but it hit home more than ever last night.

I lay awake for hours after that, PN rolling around beside me asking if I was okay and me saying I could go and sleep on the couch. Sigh, I feel like this all comes out on him as I am so distant. Its not his fault, yet it must feel terrible when I say I am going to sleep on the couch.

I lay awake and decided to just let it go. Just let my head go there, to that place of, this isn't going away, Mono has a need for this woman(or any other woman) to be his gf. I wondered what that would look like and what that would change for me in terms of boundaries. So, I made a mental list. I won't go into detail, but it started with my needing him to use condoms. Fluid bonding is a huge deal to us and always has been. That in itself was a shot of pain... There are about 7-10 requests I would have that aren't meant to be ultimatums, but boy they sure seem like they are instead of boundaries. I told him about them today and expressed that they were fluid and changeable with time for me, but this is what I would ask for if he came to me with a decision that this woman was now going to be my metamour.

My concern now is to not allow myself to already think that its a done deal. I am holding on in my heart to not assume the worst case scenarios for me in this. I am hoping that in making this list I can come back from it into something that is what they want and I am comfortable with because I pushed my mind to the edge on some of these issues.

Mono is asking me to get back to seeing the men I was entertaining. He wants me to be happy again; like I was a week ago. Happy and light and joyous. He was loving seeing me like that and wants me to be that again. I have put all of it on hold in my head. My priority is him and this situation. It might mean that I am a downer to him, but I have nothing in me to give anyone priority over him right now. I still talk to other people in my life. I met Derby for lunch today, but my presence is elsewhere. I enjoy being totally present with people when I'm with them. I hope that just being their physically for a bit will be enough right now.
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  #1369  
Old 06-05-2012, 10:00 PM
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rp, very sorry to hear that things are a little rocky right now with you and mono - I so enjoyed meeting you two all those years - you are a great couple.

If I may offer a different perspective in your quest of screaming "WHHHHYYYYYY?" to the ether.... (and by the way, if I were in your situation, I would more than likely be doing the same).

Mono has always stated that he is monogamous. He has been very very open about it. Monogamy means that when you fall in love with one person you automatically must fall out of love with the other (right? cos that's how monogamy works). You knew this, and have visualised your relationship with him on that basis.

So I think that it is only natural that, when he finds someone else he cares about, you see this as a threat to your relationship with him. Has to be... he's monogamous, right? Regardless of what YOU feel or how poly YOU are, you know that HE isn't. You are interpreting his actions based on that monogamous mind-set.

Mono is an intelligent and very self-aware guy - you and he have shared so much with each other, and I'm sure he can understand why what you see as going on is upsetting to you, no?

Often the gut feelings of folks being distant are your subconscious trying to tell you something - in this case, that he was hiding something. Trust your gut on stuff like this, for sure.

I hope that the two of you can continue to work in the stellar way that you normally do.

Virtual hugs from across the continent.
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  #1370  
Old 06-05-2012, 11:27 PM
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Redpepper. I feel for what both you and Mono are going through.

To give you an alternate perspective and Mono some support as a fellow secondary.....

I identify as mono. I love only my bf. He is my world. He is poly, loving me and his live-in SO.

He has told me quite often that he would understand if I changed my mind and decided to pursue others to find my own primary. Recognizing that, if that happened, as I am mono, things would most probably end with him. Hearing him encourage me like that hurt me, as to me, it meant that he was OK with my leaving. He confessed that he would actually be devastated if I let another man into my heart and into my bed. Yet he would feel like a hypocrite for not accepting it if I chose that path. He's shamed that he doesn't want me to have another while he has his SO at home. It's not that he doesn't believe in poly, he just knows that it's not a choice that I would make for myself. So he fears losing me. And his fears are reasonable.

I accept that about him and love him more for sharing his true feelings. And although I briefly thought about finding another at one time, I remain committed to him. I love him with all of my heart.

When I read the prior threads about you adding more and more loves into your life, I couldn't help but wonder how Mono really felt about that. As a Secondary, our biggest wish is to have more time with the object of our affection. To have that parcelled out even more between additional loves, could be a huge challenge. I recently attended a work/life balance seminar and one thought sticks in my head "For every thing you say YES to, you are saying NO to another. Choose what you say YES to, make sure your priorities are in line."

In poly, love may be infinite but time and ability to provide attention are not. We must stay keenly aware of that.

Maybe for Mono, every time you said YES to another love, he was hearing NO to him. And for fear of losing you and you reacting as you actually did, he was scared to tell you his thoughts. Or he thought, who the heck really cares. At times, I have been guilty of such thoughts. Why would my bf care if I found another? He has his SO at home. But when I told him that, it hurt him alot. He would care. He would be devestated. Another love doesn't replace one who has taken such a huge piece of your heart. If anything, it makes things worse for all involved.

In reality, insecurities and doubt are only kept at bay when all partners feel their needs are being met. When they are not, you are bound for trouble. As I'm sure you already know.

I wish you both all the best. I know that this will only make you and your relationship stronger in the end.

Last edited by newtoday; 06-05-2012 at 11:27 PM. Reason: Spelling!
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