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  #11  
Old 05-24-2012, 02:46 PM
CherryBlossomGirl CherryBlossomGirl is offline
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Annabel - you are an amazing human being, and over and over again I find your posts helpful, respectful and incredibly thought provoking. You have asked me some tough questions over the months, but never once have I felt disrespected by you, and I attribute some great growth in areas of our relationship to you. Thank you for this post.

I cannot say the same for everyone who has posted on my blog, or in some of the replies that I read that literally leave me shocked with their ferocious and accusatory tone For myself, I can stand up and say when I think that someone is out of line, and discern between what feels right for me or not, but for people just finding their footing/starting out it can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I agree with ThatGirl - a PM is totally appropriate for expressing concerns. It can be challenging to hear "negative" feedback even in a PM, but it can become almost impossible if three or four (or more) people chime in and newbies end up feeling totally dominated in a public forum. The words shaming, bullying and attacking come to mind, and none of those are very conducive to growth

I like the idea of segmenting out the boards, but also feel like there are people with experience AND patience AND tolerance who have helped me LOADS who might not have if they were in their own solar system with other experienced people. I think that lines of respect definitely get blurred at times though, and that nobody deserves to feel attacked - there are ways of expressing disagreement/concerns that still speak of respect IMHO.

Pink: Good for you! I felt the same way about my triad on the forum - everyone suggesting that I get into dyads right out of the gate, that our boundaries wouldn't work, etc. etc. etc. We had to live out our own truth and learn our own lessons - at times I felt that I was being "hurried through" the initial bliss of trying out something new and exciting by people who had become jaded and cynical about triads. Sure, in the end some of their warnings were correct (the people who were correct definitely strike me as the "I told you so" variety ), but here we are almost eight months later, and our relationship is continuing to develop and grow. There *were* people that were and still are supportive during our whole process though, and I truly consider those people friends in my life. Things can go wrong in ANY relationship set up - it doesn't mean that they will for you. To me encouragement and listening goes a lot farther than advice or assumption ever does - we all know what we want to do, and for me, these boards just help me get clearer about the path that I know I want to take in my life as it unfolds under my feet.
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  #12  
Old 05-24-2012, 04:22 PM
PinkDragon PinkDragon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaggagePatrol View Post
t

Pink: Good for you! I felt the same way about my triad on the forum - everyone suggesting that I get into dyads right out of the gate, that our boundaries wouldn't work, etc. etc. etc. We had to live out our own truth and learn our own lessons - at times I felt that I was being "hurried through" the initial bliss of trying out something new and exciting by people who had become jaded and cynical about triads. Sure, in the end some of their warnings were correct (the people who were correct definitely strike me as the "I told you so" variety ), but here we are almost eight months later, and our relationship is continuing to develop and grow.

Ahhh! Someone in a triad that's working! LOL Thanks for your words : ) I was really feeling like I was being patted on the head by some and told that I was so cute. Kwim?

The three of us had a great conversation on the phone last night and are looking forward to meeting IRL. Due to distance constraints and family duties we won't be rushing head first into anything. Our first duties are to our already extant families. We have kids, she has a kid. They come first and THEN we get to play.
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  #13  
Old 05-24-2012, 09:53 PM
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The idea of having the separate boards isn't to restrict folks to one or the other, it's more to set an expectation.

If someone posts on the "New To Poly" board and doesn't have their terminology straight or does the DADT, or OPP or UH type stuff, then it's important to treat them with more respect and go slowly.

Having that in another board means that those folks who don't want to deal with that side of things can stay away and not be irritated by them.
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  #14  
Old 05-24-2012, 11:07 PM
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The "Poly Relationship Corner" forum used to be called "New to Poly" and was changed fairly recently. See: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19250.

My guess is that the forum topics wouldn't be changed any time soon, unless something urgent happens. Olivier popped in here recently but I think that was the first time in over a year, and I am pretty sure that there is a list of changes still waiting for the next software update. If people want a big change, how I understand the process is someone starts a discussion about it in the "User Guidelines & Forum Features" section, people weigh in, and then the Moderators have a pow-wow. If there is enough consensus, it makes sense, and they feel it will benefit the community, then they send a request to Olivier, unless it is something minor that the Mods can take care of themselves. At least that is what the process looked like to me when we had a discussion about some other changes people wanted.
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Last edited by nycindie; 05-24-2012 at 11:19 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05-25-2012, 02:54 AM
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I also felt the need to weigh in here. DH and I recently started listening to a new poly podcast, Pedestrian Polyamory. One episode discusses the newbies. I was thrilled about this because they addressed that there is a MAJOR difference between 'single' people coming to poly and couples. There is a lot of poly pitfalls for newbies so having a board for newbies maybe moderated by someone more experienced and someone no longer a newbie but not yet 'seasoned' would be a good idea.

I was horribly frustrated by poly/mono groups that either villainized the mono or gave unconditional support to stumbling polys. I too made mistakes but when there is cheating in a mono relationship that leads to poly there are issues of trust that NEED to be addressed. While I don't always agree with all the advice given here and may think posts at times unduly harsh I will say I can always count on at least one perso (usually more) to be frank enough to point out that yes, you made a mistake, now own up because YOU are not the victim here.

I know I am sadly in the minority. As DH and I have discussed both liking the same types of women and him possibly dating as well, yet we have never discussed finding a woman for us to 'share' or to 'join our family'. It has always been that while it would be nice if there was someone interested in us both that we were both interested in it's an individual thing. We date who we want to separately. If we were ever in a triad it would be a surprise to us as well as it would have to happen naturally! We just don't see both falling for the same person or having a relationship with someone that would fit neatly I to our whole family like that. People are individuals. What are the chances that someone will live DH the same I do? Or me the same he does? Or the two of us loving one person the same? Hell, I love DH and DC different!
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  #16  
Old 05-25-2012, 11:24 AM
zylya zylya is offline
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To my mind, there's two problems that cause the friction in that sort of topic (UH/OPP/whatever)

1. New members don't spend any time trying to get a feel for how the board works, even people who start their posts "long-time reader, first-time poster" often haven't actually read a lot of topics. If they had, they'd know the sort of response they're likely to get from the start.

2. Old (in terms of forum membership rather than age ) members forget that everyone is new once. While it might be the 10,000th time that you've seen the topic, it's the first for someone posting it. They think that because these new people "aren't doing poly right" that they need to be educated, and some people aren't shy about being completely scathing in their "teaching methods."

The obvious answer is for people to not be a dick when they're posting. Sometimes that doesn't work out though (guilty of it myself, for sure) so some sort of forum separation is a good idea, or simply just a stronger moderation force, that actively moderates posts that are of an unnecessarily harsh nature - the philosophy behind that being that it's ok to disagree, but still be at least respectful of the poster - if it crosses that line of respect, then it gets moderated. I'm not suggesting handing out bans left-right-and-centre btw, just that moderators should remove posts that go too far, and talk to posters if they're nearly crossing the line - the idea being that they're there to encourage positive discussions where people don't feel attacked, even if they're disagreeing with your point.

In some cases, people are oversensitive, in others people are legitimately attacking others, that's why having a fair, consistent and active moderation team is the best solution - then a line is drawn as to what is, and isn't, acceptable.
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  #17  
Old 05-25-2012, 06:21 PM
Outsider Outsider is offline
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I dunno, I'm a relatively new member here but lurked for quite a bit before that.

Every second day there seems to be a post looking for that magic bullet about how to speak to your SO about opening up the relationship, or how do I deal with jealousy (mine or theirs) etc. I don't find "do a tag search" is particularly off putting.

I do think it might be helpful if some of the more routine questions be placed somewhere on their own even as a sub topic or Sticky. How to tell your spouse, how to deal with jealousy etc.
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  #18  
Old 05-25-2012, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post
I don't find "do a tag search" is particularly off putting.

I do think it might be helpful if some of the more routine questions be placed somewhere on their own even as a sub topic or Sticky. How to tell your spouse, how to deal with jealousy etc.
Yeah, why are people getting bent out of shape when someone suggests searching the tags? Or doing an advanced search (because most people don't seem to bother tagging their threads anyway)? Sometimes a person doesn't have time to respond at length and just wants to point people to resources. I find it more annoying when a poster has obviously NOT searched before posting. Should the three or four years of good stuff here just fall to the wayside? If it isn't useful, it is often inspiring to read what others have gone through and struggled with, and often the solutions and suggestions in old threads would be very relevant to others today. My guess is that is why they are still there - some forums delete old, old threads and don't want old topics resurrected. But here it is encouraged. And every forum I visit or belong to will have a big bold "STOP!" at the top of the page and ask that people do a search before posting. But everyone wants to think they are unique and their problems are special.

In addition, there used to be a moderator here who liked to blend many related threads on recurring topics together into long "Master Threads" for easy referencing. She left last year and no one's doing that anymore, but I still wish it was because I think it is useful to have certain topics all in one place.

As for the stickies, we have quite a few, and we have the thread called "Links to Other Threads Worth Reading," but it seems like no one ever reads them (or the Guidelines) before posting their questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zylya View Post
I'm not suggesting handing out bans left-right-and-centre btw, just that moderators should remove posts that go too far, and talk to posters if they're nearly crossing the line - the idea being that they're there to encourage positive discussions where people don't feel attacked, even if they're disagreeing with your point.
The moderators do that already. They can only moderate the messages people post, they can't moderate how people take the words others write.

There's a difference between telling it straight, giving an opinion, and bullying, shaming, attacking, or whatever else people somehow misconstrue a message as being. I used to know someone who got upset and offended when her boss didn't say "please" whenever she asked her to do something. I just shook my head - people need more of a thick skin sometimes.

I recently came across this quote by Redpepper in another (ancient) thread, and I think it makes a lot of sense:
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Um, this is a public forum, not a poly group. We all need to remember that we are on here to give our opinion and to do with information what we will. It's not about judging each other... if you are feeling judged anyone then I suggest you are investing too much emotion in this....

I gotta say that I recent that I put my time and energy into this forum and to be thought of as "judging" really frustrates me. If people don't want an opinion from me or anyone else on here, then I suggest you don't tell us your story.

We aren't here to be nice to each other always. We can get that from those close in our lives....
I said it before, it's kind of like driving in traffic. We have our opinion on how people should drive, but they never hear us when we are talking about it in our car as we watch them. On here, you hear us.... end of story.
So... just because a message seems harsh to someone doesn't mean they've been attacked or shamed or spoken down to. If they feel attacked when people are simply offering an opinion, I feel that perhaps they are being too sensitive. It is also very different when one reads something that, if it had been verbalized and heard in person, wouldn't have the same impact.

I don't think this thread was created about me and my posts, but I know some responders had me in mind when talking about posts they find problematic. I'm not interested in attacking, shaming, nor bullying (as if that were even possible) anyone, so I think it is ridiculous that my opinions are misunderstood to be any of those. As I have said a million times before, people should imagine what I write in my posts being said in a soft soothing voice, with a hand on your arm and said in the spirit of tough love, because the whole reason I'm here is to be part of this community and participate with concern and caring. The amount of people who PM me privately to thank me for my input, bluntness, and for asking them "tough" questions far outnumber those who get upset with my posts. And it's funny that the ones who are talking about "shaming" are the ones who wag their fingers and say "shame on you."

If you don't like my posts, do us both a favor and put me on your Ignore list. Please. Chances are you're already on mine.

At least some people get it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sagency View Post
Having lived in the South, Northeast, and Northwest, I can understand how nycindie feels. The simple fact is sometimes Nyc is opinionated, and she's often direct, and some people are biased in their reactions to that. When I moved to the west coast, I had to learn how to speak Northwestern because people out here assumed my bluntness was a sign of arrogance or assholery.

I for one appreciate Nyc's directness, but I also know her compassion caveat. New folks likely don't and probably haven't figured out that she asks tough questions because she cares.

Thanks for taking the time, Nyc.
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Last edited by nycindie; 05-26-2012 at 01:05 AM.
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  #19  
Old 05-25-2012, 11:24 PM
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There ain't no changes happening fast here folks. Its been years of waiting for change on these here forums and no one is more frustrated than the mods. This is why I continue to tag and continue to point out the common tags. I'm sorry if this is in some way annoying or that anyone feels dumped on because they are new, but that is also the nature of the game. Most of us have been through the same things ourselves and are eager to pass on common misunderstandingsa and mistakes. If no one disagreed or challenged there would be no reasonm to write and therefore, no forum.

We have been over the dividing the forum into sections thing before, but really, we aren't interested in segregating people that way because of experience. Most of the time people are dating a mix of people new and old to poly. Experience is not something that is held in value when it comes to discussion I don't think. We can all learn from each other. That being said, reviews like this are valuable.

My suggestion? Take it all with a grain of salt, learn from what others say and realize that sometimes its useful to remember no one knows the whole story, everything is a generalisation and most of the time people leave here and life goes on one way or another just as its suppose to. I can't tell you how many people have come and gone from here and have passed on stories that have not been repeated on this forum. If you don't want people to respond as they see fit on a public forum, don't write here. We try and stay on top of any kind of negative stuff, but really, sometimes its a matter of letting go of your idea of what reality is. Chances are someone is going to have a completely different opinion and express that. Chances are that you are making some assumptions about what is really going on for someone, so drop the assumption and stay open to wondering where they are coming from. Ask questions, empathize.

As to the blogs section? No one should be responding negatively there, its not a place to debate someone's story. Please let us know if that is happening so people can be reminded. Please remind each other of that also. We all make the culture here. We are all in it together.

Those are some thoughts on the fly for now. It might be helpful to be more specific about complaints though. Its hard to address issues that are general. I welcome PM's if that works better and of course all open and honest communication (I might move this to a different forum on site usage, just in case you are looking for it).
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  #20  
Old 05-26-2012, 12:35 AM
ThatGirlInGray ThatGirlInGray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Yeah, why are people getting bent out of shape when someone suggests searching the tags?
Because when a recommendation for a tag search is pretty much the entirety of the response (imo) it comes off as dismissive or at the very least rushed. Kind of like saying, "Do your own research and don't bother me." Like if you asked a librarian for help locating an item and all he/she did was point you towards the catalog computer. Not going to make you feel like asking for help again, is it?
Quote:
I find it more annoying when a poster has obviously NOT searched before posting.
I can agree with you here, but I still maintain recommending a tag search can be part of a more thoughtful, complete response.
Quote:
But everyone wants to think they are unique and their problems are special.
THIS. This is absolutely true, and when someone posts in the midst of a crisis or otherwise emotional time, is that really the time to point out that they maybe are not unique and special? Hardly helpful, to my mind, unless you're doing it in an, "It's okay, you're not alone. Others have made it through this and you will too!" kind of way.

Quote:
So... just because a message seems harsh to someone doesn't mean they've been attacked or shamed or spoken down to. If they feel attacked when people are simply offering an opinion, I feel that perhaps they are being too sensitive. It is also very different when one reads something that, if it had been verbalized and heard in person, wouldn't have the same impact.
If it's only one or two people who have a problem with what someone wrote, then you have a point. A thicker skin might be necessary, or it could be a misunderstanding about tone or intent. But when it's more than a few people, I think the responsibility falls to the writer to really look at what they wrote and what others might be taking issue with.

Quote:
I don't think this thread was created about me and my posts, but I know some responders had me in mind when talking about posts they find problematic. I'm not interested in attacking, shaming, nor bullying (as if that were even possible) anyone, so I think it is ridiculous that my opinions are misunderstood to be any of those.
You can think it's ridiculous all you want, but if it keeps happening over and over then you're like the person in a relationship who won't try to work on a problem because they don't see a problem. Your point of view regarding your posts is not the only one that matters. If you really think it is, then you're not writing to help people at all, you're only writing as a form of intellectual masturbation. (Also, you don't think cyber-bullying is possible? Are you freaking kidding me??)
Quote:
As I have said a million times before, people should imagine what I write in my posts being said in a soft soothing voice, with a hand on your arm and said in the spirit of tough love, because the whole reason I'm here is to be part of this community and participate with concern and caring.
I don't remember seeing in the last 4+ months, so I guess I missed some of those million times. Perhaps you should put it or something similar at the start of those "tough love" posts, because newbies especially are mostly likely not going to automatically read your responses that way.
Quote:
The amount of people who PM me privately to thank me for my input, bluntness, and for asking them "tough" questions far outnumber those who get upset with my posts.
Good, I'm glad for them. Why not try to make that number even higher?
Quote:
And it's funny that the ones who are talking about "shaming" are the ones who wag their fingers and say "shame on you."
Since that's to me, I'll tell you why it's not funny: I didn't say it to an emotionally distraught person over a situation I'm hearing about second- or third-hand. I said it to someone who has shown plenty of times that she can post without that harshness and with compassion even as she asks the tough questions, about a situation I witnessed first-hand. You weren't posting asking for help, which makes a huge difference in the type of response.

Quote:
If you don't like my posts, do us both a favor and put me on your Ignore list. Please. Chances are you're already on mine.
Nope. You can put me on yours, but I'm not going to ignore you, if only so when you are overly harsh or one-sided in a thread I read, I can make the choice to be a dissenting voice giving another perspective if I want to.
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