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  #61  
Old 04-05-2012, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by StarTeddy View Post
When I broke up with my boyfriend, it was because I had fallen for his best friend, who is Catholic. He is surprisingly semi-ok with the possibility of sharing me, while my agnostic-ish ex is not... I can't help but wonder if somewhere along the line he'd feel like he wasn't being as good of a christian as he could be because of the implications of poly.
My lover is Catholic and pretty devoted to his faith. He told me he has just accepted that he's a sinner and he can't fight that, so that's how he seems to reconcile with his own sex life. I guess he feels like he's imperfect, so to enjoy his sinning while he can and not worry about it until it's time to meet his maker. That's how I interpreted what he said to me, but I will have to ask him more about that.
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Last edited by nycindie; 04-05-2012 at 05:47 AM.
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  #62  
Old 04-05-2012, 11:07 AM
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I think that's probably why he's not too worried about it. He understands that the Bible was written by prejudiced men, and not everything that's written is accurate, or meant to be followed.
I'm glad he's wise enough to realize this :-).

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It just worries me, because even though I'm not a believer myself, I understand that his faith is important to him and a part of his happiness. I certainly don't want him to feel like being with me would distance him from God. But, I suppose, that's something he'll have to figure out on his own.
If he's wise enough to realize that not everything in the bible should be followed, I think he has a good chance of coming to the conclusion that your arrangement with him is fine by God. I define God as everything; I'm not exactly sure as to what "everything" entails, but I can't believe that God wouldn't want us to share everything with those we love (and sex is definitely part of everything :-)).
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  #63  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by km34 View Post
Not sure if this is really the correct place to post this since the topic at hand doesn't strictly have to do with polyamory, but it is about spirituality so I didn't know where else to put it!

I see a lot of people comment on having been in and taught the "Christian Marriage" and it being a major hurdle to their journey to poly. I was raised Southern Baptist. My grandpa was a pastor. I still consider myself a Christian, although in a different sense (the Christ-like sense, not the religious sense).

What I am curious about is why Christian husbands tend to get a bad reputation for being repressive and completely controlling. My family and the churches I have gone to have acknowledged that the husband is the head of the household and ultimate decision making is up to them and used various Biblical references to back it up and whatnot, BUT they have always also focused on passages such as I Peter 3:7 that tells husbands to treat their wives with understanding.

NONE of the devoutly Christian men I know would EVER do something to blatantly hurt their wives (i.e. expect them to completely stop being their own person after marriage, expect that a second wife would be acceptable without the first one agreeing, etc.). Am I just completely naive in thinking that the Bible as a whole teaches us to be loving and respectful of everyone regardless of gender, marital status, sexuality, or any other qualifier?
No, the Bible as a whole doesn't teach love and respect for everyone. There are parts of it that teach that it's a good idea and what God wants. The Bible writers were human, though, and what they wrote was their idea of what God wants.

I'm a guy. I think stories never stop about men being bullies, simply because we are larger and stronger than women, usually, and we have testosterone. A man can't say anything agressive or confident anymore, or the stories start. Or another male starts feeling all responsible and bullies the "bully." The fact is everybody assumes about men, but no one understands men really.
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  #64  
Old 05-22-2012, 07:07 PM
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Default Illusions of 'Christianity' and false manifestations

So, first - to be clear - I'm an ordained Christian Minister....

I've enjoyed reading all the entries, and I'm always amazed by conversations regarding all things 'Biblical'. What seems to be missing is context...so let me offer some.

The Bible has two parts...The Old, and the New Testimonies. If one seeks the true mantle of 'Christian', then one should embrace the New, the 'Good News', of the New Testimony.

Religions are designed to control a societies behaviors, thoughts, and wealth. Part of my Ministry is to make people aware of the Evils of Religion, and how clearly they do Satan's work. Christ's path through the pages of the Bible focused on this Evil over and over again...He was the worst Jewish Rabbi ever....look at all the rules he broke while teaching us the righteous path to Glory back to God.

If others give their free agency over to Religion, then cast dark stones of judgement, oppression, and hatred then let them. Christ, and the true followers of Christ, embrace all people with love. I do not judge, I embrace. I do not create laws against the free will of others, (Mormons take note), I support the manifestations produced from the choices your Souls make in our world. From my faith in Christ do I understand the nature of the love he gave us all....No religion gives that to us....NO RELIGION

The Bible is a book, and within you'll find the path of Godly Righteousness. You will also read how men continue to control others, even now, for the illusions of being better than others... History could use a Biblical rewrite...
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  #65  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by UtahHopeful View Post
Religions are designed to control a societies behaviors, thoughts, and wealth. Part of my Ministry is to make people aware of the Evils of Religion, and how clearly they do Satan's work. Christ's path through the pages of the Bible focused on this Evil over and over again...He was the worst Jewish Rabbi ever....look at all the rules he broke while teaching us the righteous path to Glory back to God.

If others give their free agency over to Religion, then cast dark stones of judgement, oppression, and hatred then let them. Christ, and the true followers of Christ, embrace all people with love. I do not judge, I embrace. I do not create laws against the free will of others, (Mormons take note), I support the manifestations produced from the choices your Souls make in our world. From my faith in Christ do I understand the nature of the love he gave us all....No religion gives that to us....NO RELIGION

The Bible is a book, and within you'll find the path of Godly Righteousness. You will also read how men continue to control others, even now, for the illusions of being better than others... History could use a Biblical rewrite...
Well, I've spent a lot of years dealing seriously with the Christian religion, and agree with a lot of what you say. After so much pursuit there is one problem (of many) that boils to the surface. Christianity and the Bible seem to be about the individual. For example, one reads the Bible by oneself. Also, however one relates to God and the Holy Spirit, it is usually one-on-One.

The problem is people are social, we are defined by the company we keep, and we find solace and happiness there. Christianity will never help people as long as it keeps trying to get us alone. But the approach is wrong. The assumption is that we are all alike, we are like each other. We never are, never have been, never will be. But we keep being surprised about that.
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  #66  
Old 05-24-2012, 05:05 AM
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Default Thats the point of our Physical Plane

You touched on the underlying environmental essence of our layer of the Multiverse. Again, to be clear...I am an Ordained Christian Minister, but I am also Vitki to the Oracle of the Runes.
It is true we are all different. We all have a singular footing on the spiritual path that we all still walk along. But it is also true that we all share an interconnectedness as spiritual beings. Setting aside 'Religion', through all of human history every society has a natural understanding of our spiritual essence...not by accident. It's the expected outcome of our spiritual nature. We all share that spiritual essence.
It is also true that here in the physical plane we are animal. We are mammals, in truth, and are subject to the traits developed in our DNA. One of these is the herding instinct we love to follow to creative ends....We follow! ...Sports, political ideologies, Music groups, Cultural beliefs, Family behaviors, Sexual behaviors, Nation against Nation, Skin color against Skin....and Religion. We herd to where our emotional bodies find the most joy.
As human 'beings' we are both...and isn't it beautiful? We are all scattered in this human mess...alone and together. Singular but also the same. What a wickedly perfect Universal design for us to explore each others essence.
Back to Christ for a thought or two...Our savior drank wine...and when the casks were dry he turned water into more wine. He served others through the intimate act of washing their feet. How many of you have washed the feet of a loved one? We find it easy to sit in our Churches...one a blue flag, and the other a red...and we imagine together we're cannibalizing our Savior's flesh and drinking his blood like vampires...but the intimate stuff, even in His examples we can't get to.
Enough preaching...with one last question. Is it sin to enjoy your lovers orgasms at the touch of another while all there find joy and togetherness, or is it sin to judge that shared joy and togetherness from an outside perspective intentionally being detached from that same joy and togetherness?...
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  #67  
Old 05-24-2012, 07:10 PM
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I didn't read all the other posts, just the original one, so here's my take:

I have been married to a charismatic Christian man for the last seven years. Though he let his license lapse, he is still an ordained minister of the Full Gospel persuasion.

We live a very egalitarian lifestyle, but if there is a decision to be made he gets the ultimate say. I agreed to that before we married, btw, and I agreed because I can be somewhat flighty when it comes to having to make a serious decision. It is better for us that he be the decision maker in those instances. Now, if I can give him compelling, logical reasons why we shouldn't do something we don't do it. He relies on me for my discernment.

Bear takes his vow to "cherish" me /very/ seriously. Cherish meaning to "continuously pursue the mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being of another".

That said, I had a really horrible experience with my first husband many, many moons ago (we've been divorced since '96). He reconnected with an old friend that belonged to a particular "leg" of Amway that considered themselves to be Christian. Every last one of those men counseled him that he basically had to get me under this thumb. Under their tutelage he decided that he needed to control every aspect of me--what I wore, where I shopped, what I read, what I watched, what I listened to, what my hobbies were, who I was friends with, how much I saw my family---EVERYTHING.

There is a reason why he's my EX husband, kwim?

So while there are those men who are Christians, who live by trying to reach the example that Jesus set of always acting out of love, there are those that see the teachings of Paul as license to be Lord and Master of their little domains. THEY are the reason that all Christian men get painted with the repressive/controlling brush. Thankfully, not all of them are like that. If they were I would not have married Bear..

Just my .02, hope it helps.
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  #68  
Old 05-24-2012, 10:00 PM
km34 km34 is offline
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Originally Posted by PinkDragon View Post
I didn't read all the other posts, just the original one, so here's my take:

I have been married to a charismatic Christian man for the last seven years. Though he let his license lapse, he is still an ordained minister of the Full Gospel persuasion.

We live a very egalitarian lifestyle, but if there is a decision to be made he gets the ultimate say. I agreed to that before we married, btw, and I agreed because I can be somewhat flighty when it comes to having to make a serious decision. It is better for us that he be the decision maker in those instances. Now, if I can give him compelling, logical reasons why we shouldn't do something we don't do it. He relies on me for my discernment.

Bear takes his vow to "cherish" me /very/ seriously. Cherish meaning to "continuously pursue the mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being of another".

That said, I had a really horrible experience with my first husband many, many moons ago (we've been divorced since '96). He reconnected with an old friend that belonged to a particular "leg" of Amway that considered themselves to be Christian. Every last one of those men counseled him that he basically had to get me under this thumb. Under their tutelage he decided that he needed to control every aspect of me--what I wore, where I shopped, what I read, what I watched, what I listened to, what my hobbies were, who I was friends with, how much I saw my family---EVERYTHING.

There is a reason why he's my EX husband, kwim?

So while there are those men who are Christians, who live by trying to reach the example that Jesus set of always acting out of love, there are those that see the teachings of Paul as license to be Lord and Master of their little domains. THEY are the reason that all Christian men get painted with the repressive/controlling brush. Thankfully, not all of them are like that. If they were I would not have married Bear..

Just my .02, hope it helps.

Bear sounds very much like all of the Christian men in my family. I approve.
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  #69  
Old 05-24-2012, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by km34 View Post
Bear sounds very much like all of the Christian men in my family. I approve.
Thanks I'm rather fond of him myself!
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  #70  
Old 05-26-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by catbird View Post
Well, I've spent a lot of years dealing seriously with the Christian religion, and agree with a lot of what you say. After so much pursuit there is one problem (of many) that boils to the surface. Christianity and the Bible seem to be about the individual. For example, one reads the Bible by oneself. Also, however one relates to God and the Holy Spirit, it is usually one-on-One.
Actually for hundreds of years, most Jews and Christians were illiterate and the teachings of the Bible, both Testaments, were read out loud. The contents were kept close by the leaders of the congregations (Hebrew priests, rabbis, later, Christian pastors). The followers were fed only what was deemed expedient by their leaders. It was illegal to own a Bible. That is why the book was kept in Latin for so long. The first men that tried to translate the Bible into English were put to death.

The transition from a tribal feeling to recognizing the rights of the individual was a long process, and there is still a tribal feeling in many ways. Putting the needs of the group first before one's own needs is a common continuous thread.

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The problem is people are social, we are defined by the company we keep, and we find solace and happiness there. Christianity will never help people as long as it keeps trying to get us alone. But the approach is wrong. The assumption is that we are all alike, we are like each other. We never are, never have been, never will be. But we keep being surprised about that.
Yes, being an individual while still being compelled to fit in, an ever present human problem.
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