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  #11  
Old 11-29-2009, 06:21 AM
Quath Quath is offline
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Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
Honestly, I can't say that's ever been my personal experience.
I find that pretty interesting.
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  #12  
Old 11-29-2009, 01:44 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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I've had conversations with friends and others about defining what love is, inside and outside workshop settings. My experience among my mono friends is that it's rarely qualified as loving one special person exclusively. That usually only comes up if there's a comparison somewhere in the conversation between monogamy and polyamory. And if it was qualified that way, my answer to that would be "Great, that tells me *how* you love. Now let's talk about *what* that love is."

The same thing among my poly friends. I can't say I've ever heard a person define love itself in terms of having to love more than one person. The same differentiation is there. That talks about how, not what.

(plus, I've never read Heinlein and can't say I'm a huge fan or run among crowds that are huge fans)
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  #13  
Old 11-29-2009, 02:45 PM
Quath Quath is offline
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For me, I am more likely to hear about "soul mate" or "being completed" in my monogamous friends than in my poly friends. They are more likely to separate how you love from what love is.

I read a few Heinlein books. They are interesting in how they break through many social norms. However, I usually don't get pulled too deeply into his stories. The Heinlein quote that I do hear is "Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own." It doesn't quite reflect my view, but I like the concept of it.
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  #14  
Old 11-29-2009, 03:02 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post

(plus, I've never read Heinlein and can't say I'm a huge fan or run among crowds that are huge fans)
Heinlein is over-rated IMO and I think some people refer to his work and quote him because it's easier than thinking for themselves.

Now it's my turn to duck and run for cover because I know there are a lot of folks on here who think Heinlein is the Prophet of Polyamory, and I'm prob'ly gonna catch a fair amount of grief for saying that, but I'll deal

Last edited by NeonKaos; 11-29-2009 at 03:06 PM.
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  #15  
Old 11-29-2009, 03:11 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quath View Post
For me, I am more likely to hear about "soul mate" or "being completed" in my monogamous friends than in my poly friends. They are more likely to separate how you love from what love is.

I read a few Heinlein books. They are interesting in how they break through many social norms. However, I usually don't get pulled too deeply into his stories. The Heinlein quote that I do hear is "Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own." It doesn't quite reflect my view, but I like the concept of it.
Hi Quath,
I read some Heinlein a long time ago (like Jr High era) and maybe I saw something in there that made sense to me at the time. Maybe even the quote you use above.
And I think that quote has a lot of wisdom in it and may reflect the reality of "love" for a lot of people. I'm even going to carry it one step further into dangerous territory by saying " the happiness/well being of another comes to supersede our own". In most truly "loving" situations I've seen or been involved in, the reality of "sacrifice" (for someone else) has been a consistent action in the "expression" of love.
It's a dangerous thread (and if the group wants we should move it to one) as it can't help but dissolve into a debate about when TOO MUCH sacrifice is needed or involved, and how that can unavoidably (?) change the whole dynamic and end up with more bad than good.

Nothing is ever simple and black & white it seems.........
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  #16  
Old 11-29-2009, 11:41 PM
Quath Quath is offline
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I think Heinlein's major influence is that he presented the ideas out there in a workable fashion for the general public in his books. So I kind of agree with you, YGirl. But I do appreciate that he got the ideas out into our society.

GroundedSpirit, there does seem to be some debate on how much sacrificial feelings one should have for another. On one level, it seems romantic and full of feeling. On the other hand, it may also reveal a lack of self worth. But I agree that things are rarely as black and white as they seem...
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  #17  
Old 11-30-2009, 12:08 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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I've come to a very recent acceptance that there are two languages at play all around me. I see this here and at the monthly Poly meetings I attend and even in my discussions with Redpepper. There is essentially two languages being spoken when the mono world meets the poly world. Words that have immediate and understandable meanings to one world are different for the other.
Don't know if it's strictly a mono/poly difference, but I definately concur that there is a HUGE discrepency in what people MEAN when they speak, and what people HEAR when someone has spoken.

All the words you listed, and LOVE are HUGE ones in our MARRIAGE! Heck-"marriage" was one of those words.

We struggle with that issue ALL THE TIME.

I gotta run, deal with some personal issues (AGAIN) but I'll check back and try to catch up on a forum gone wild in 3 days.
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  #18  
Old 12-30-2009, 03:39 AM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Pardon me for necroing an older thread, but I think this is a very interesting discussion.

I don't think there is so much a difference in the definitions of the various words mentioned here so much as understanding what those mean in terms of actions.

"Cheating" is the obvious one that springs to my mind, but "love" and "commitment" are two others.

The concept of commitment to most monogamous people that I have spoken to implies committing to one person completely. To a poly person it means something different.

When the poly community itself can't agree on common definitions and applications of language, then we can't really expect that to be done when communicating with non-poly people. The more I have read about the discussions pro and con coming up with some sort of common definitions for terms, the more it feels like The Tower of Babel (and one or two who fancy themselves as Nimrods).

If there are no ambitions to get so-called mainstream society to become more accepting of some sort of poly lifestyle, then I think we can carry on as we are - in a state of flux and chaos. But most emerging sub-cultures have in the past come up with a coherent language that they use to communicate within the sub-culture and then to the wider world. I would postulate that this has pretty much been a pre-requisite for emergence and stability.

We are a long way from that, I fear, and not getting much closer.
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  #19  
Old 12-30-2009, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post

When the poly community itself can't agree on common definitions and applications of language, then we can't really expect that to be done when communicating with non-poly people. The more I have read about the discussions pro and con coming up with some sort of common definitions for terms, the more it feels like The Tower of Babel (and one or two who fancy themselves as Nimrods).

......

We are a long way from that, I fear, and not getting much closer.
I concur again.
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  #20  
Old 12-30-2009, 05:31 AM
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me too!
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