The crossover between Polyamory, Swinging and Sex work

[nycindie]

Now, Scott, don't go telling fibs. You weren't getting a hard time for saying that there was "cross-over." You were given a hard time because you were positing that prostitution is a form of polyamory. I'm not about to reiterate the argument, but had to say this just to set the record straight.

[kdt26417]

Hey Scott,

Just recognized your name/avatar/thread from PolyPercs and had to at least stop by and say hi. I took your poll; I agree there's probably some crossover in principle, but I wouldn't make any commitments about how *much* crossover I think there is. I know the originally-cited study shows some evidence of sex-work crossover.

I'll also say that in the about-four years that I've spent on poly forums (mostly Ppercs, but anyway), I've observed quite a few cases where swingers were transitioning into poly, or where already-poly persons are swingers also. So I'd estimate there's considerable crossover between swing and poly.

Anyway, hi, always nice to see a familiar face.

Regards,
Kevin.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by nycindie

Now, Scott, don't go telling fibs. You weren't getting a hard time for saying that there was "cross-over." You were given a hard time because you were positing that prostitution is a form of polyamory.

I think the difference is rather thin; a crossover implies that the definitions of the terms aren't clear cut; perhaps I should have said that I believed there was some overlap between polyamory and prostitution?

Originally Posted by nycindie

I'm not about to reiterate the argument, but had to say this just to set the record straight.

I'm glad you chipped in, anyway. Words can divide people but they can also moderate things. Here's to hoping that second aspect of them wins through here.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by kdt26417

Hey Scott,

Just recognized your name/avatar/thread from PolyPercs and had to at least stop by and say hi.

Thanks :-). I had noted your arrival here with some interest but had decided to not say anything for a while, as I didn't want you to be mired in any of the controversy surrounding me :-p.

Originally Posted by kdt26417

I took your poll; I agree there's probably some crossover in principle, but I wouldn't make any commitments about how *much* crossover I think there is.

Understood.

Originally Posted by kdt26417

I know the originally-cited study shows some evidence of sex-work crossover.

I'll also say that in the about-four years that I've spent on poly forums (mostly Ppercs, but anyway), I've observed quite a few cases where swingers were transitioning into poly, or where already-poly persons are swingers also. So I'd estimate there's considerable crossover between swing and poly.

It would seem that you haven't seen much crossover between polyamory and sex work, and I would say that I've also not seen as much of this; this is why polyamory is furthest away from sex work in my thread title. I do believe there is a bit more crossover between swinging and sex work then polyamory and sex work, but I have no hard data on that; it just seems to fit, as I think that sex work and swinging are more associated with physical pleasure versus emotional ones, whereas I think that polyamory is more about the emotions then the physical side of things.

Originally Posted by kdt26417

Anyway, hi, always nice to see a familiar face.

For sure :-). Thanks for chipping in. I think you were a real life saver over at PPercs for me; I think that people (including myself at times) can get very emotionally involved in a particular position and it's nice to have someone who just tries to analyze the whole thing objectively.

[kdt26417]

Why, thank you, sir. I've had my moments where I got emotionally involved in a discussion, but I usually try to be objective, as much as possible. (I do better in a forum-like internet setting because I have more time to think, versus say a chat room or live conversation. I don't always think so well on my feet.)

Yeah, I've heard many arguments back and forth about the merits/nature of sex work. Perhaps it's no coincidence that discussions about pornography tend to take on the same contraversial tone (i.e., how consensual is it, really). I think I'd have to be more "involved" somehow in the sex work (or porn) industry myself before I'd be quick to volunteer any "hard" conclusions about it. I use a lot of "estimate-," "some-," "most-," and "seldom-" -like statements in those realms, and not many "I-know-," "everybody-knows-," "never-," and "always-" -type statements. One has to make room for a great variety of unique individual situations, I think. I sure don't consider myself to be an expert in these fields.

Anyway, I've been known to attract a little contraversy of my own at times, so we have that in common. D'oh well! Price of being overly philosophical, I guess? I couldn't tell ya.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by kdt26417

Why, thank you, sir. I've had my moments where I got emotionally involved in a discussion, but I usually try to be objective, as much as possible. (I do better in a forum-like internet setting because I have more time to think, versus say a chat room or live conversation. I don't always think so well on my feet.)

Same :-)

Originally Posted by kdt26417

Yeah, I've heard many arguments back and forth about the merits/nature of sex work. Perhaps it's no coincidence that discussions about pornography tend to take on the same controversial tone (i.e., how consensual is it, really).

Yeah, in one conversation I was in, the subject started with pornography but ended with sex work :-p.

Originally Posted by kdt26417

I think I'd have to be more "involved" somehow in the sex work (or porn) industry myself before I'd be quick to volunteer any "hard" conclusions about it. I use a lot of "estimate-," "some-," "most-," and "seldom-" -like statements in those realms, and not many "I-know-," "everybody-knows-," "never-," and "always-" -type statements. One has to make room for a great variety of unique individual situations, I think. I sure don't consider myself to be an expert in these fields.

Agreed. This is why I'm happy I was able to find people who had studied the issue more or who were even sex workers in the past. And ofcourse people like newrelations, who is -married- to woman who engages in sex work is just icing on the cake :-)

Originally Posted by kdt26417

Anyway, I've been known to attract a little controversy of my own at times, so we have that in common. D'oh well! Price of being overly philosophical, I guess? I couldn't tell ya.

Could be, heh :-). I try to be as polite as possible, but when you step into hot topics, it may still not be enough to avoid getting burned -.-

[kdt26417]

Yeah, the kitchen can get pretty hot ...

Re:

"And of course people like newrelations, who is *married* to woman who engages in sex work is just icing on the cake ..."

That was quite an amazing story, wasn't it.

Regards,
KDT.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by kdt26417

That was quite an amazing story, wasn't it.

Aye. I understand why most people who want emotional connections shun sex work. I would probably not even be exploring all of this if I hadn't met this woman who did sex work and identified as polyamorous, but ever since then I started thinking that polyamory, swinging and sex work are just variants on the same non monogamous theme. I think it could definitely be said that sex work seems to fit in more with a monogamous culture, where people want to have relationships not permitted by monogamy and sex workers are good at keeping secrets; the sex worker (let's call her "A") said that most clients were cheating on someone. I definitely think this isn't good, and I personally would never want to be part of this, but then allegedly monogamous people (or closeted polies/swingers if you want to see it that way) do a lot of things in order to "fit in" to the mainstream culture that I wouldn't do.

[kdt26417]

People are gradually learning to hear about, tolerate, and consider alternate sexuality and relationship forms, but it's still largely a world with a narrow definition of "good relationship" (monogamy being just one part of that definition), so sometimes people have inclinations/desires that don't "fit in," and wind up contorting themselves or their lives to "make it fit." Cheating would be one example; the secrecy is an alternative way to make the "superflous" relationship fit inside the mold. Essentially sweeping it under the rug to "make the house look clean."

Who knows how it would (hopefully someday will) look if society had a much more tolerant/open view/definition of (potentially) good/healthy relationships. I wouldn't even want to speculate; it's too complicated of a question. There would probably be a lot less secrecy, though. Not only less cheating, but less situations where people had to be "in the closet" about their lifestyle. It's too bad we don't live in that kind of world, but it's good that things seem to be slowly moving in that direction.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by kdt26417

People are gradually learning to hear about, tolerate, and consider alternate sexuality and relationship forms, but it's still largely a world with a narrow definition of "good relationship" (monogamy being just one part of that definition), so sometimes people have inclinations/desires that don't "fit in," and wind up contorting themselves or their lives to "make it fit." Cheating would be one example; the secrecy is an alternative way to make the "superflous" relationship fit inside the mold. Essentially sweeping it under the rug to "make the house look clean."

Who knows how it would (hopefully someday will) look if society had a much more tolerant/open view/definition of (potentially) good/healthy relationships. I wouldn't even want to speculate; it's too complicated of a question. There would probably be a lot less secrecy, though. Not only less cheating, but less situations where people had to be "in the closet" about their lifestyle. It's too bad we don't live in that kind of world, but it's good that things seem to be slowly moving in that direction.

Well said :-)