Is it just me, or is this becoming more about sex only?

[lovefromgirl]

Originally Posted by luvsasmile

My opinion. Maybe it's a generation age gap.

Between which generations, please? And with what evidence/experience to back it up?

Sign me the walking exception to a lot of rules, I guess.

[zylya]

I think the problem is that people try and put it all into a one dimensional line of non-monogamy like:

Swinging -> Open -> Poly
(sexual non-monogamy ---> loving non-monogamy)

whereas really, because of the huge differences in people, it's not a line but some sort of complex 3d shape, and each relationship will include different bits of each.

To me, if I'm in a committed relationship and I have a FB on the side, and neither of the two partners knows each other (although they do know OF each other) then that's still poly. However, some will say that since they don't know each other it's not poly. Others will say that since I only have one committed relationship, it's not poly. Someone else might ask if I would be open to a second committed relationship, and if that would make it poly.

The problem is that, often, one word is not enough to describe the complicated dynamics of poly arrangements, and even if it was, some people aren't fans of the labelling aspect anyway. I find that it's more helpful to worry about the actual problem rather than what box you want to put it in.

I think there's some people who just want one major relationship, and everything else fairly casual. To me, that's still poly, but obviously people will mainly post here with their PROBLEMS rather than the things that are going right. If I want one relationship + casual sex on the side, and I've got a great relationship, then I'm not going to ask about it.

[CielDuMatin]

I really do appreciate the grey areas that folks are identifying. I agree that folks need a place to discuss all aspects of relationships, and that includes sexual.

But is anybody suggesting that a post like "We have been monogamous all our lives. My boyfriend and I really want to have a threesome with another female. We have both agreed that neither of us will develop anything beyond the sexual stuff with her. how do we go about finding a suitable person?"

Now, I know this is an extreme case, and as some have said, for some having a sexual relationship usually means that feelings develop beyond that. But would most of us agree that this isn't poly? or am I off base?

If it's NOT poly, then where is the line?

[km34]

Originally Posted by zylya

To me, if I'm in a committed relationship and I have a FB on the side, and neither of the two partners knows each other (although they do know OF each other) then that's still poly. However, some will say that since they don't know each other it's not poly. Others will say that since I only have one committed relationship, it's not poly. Someone else might ask if I would be open to a second committed relationship, and if that would make it poly.

For me the poly vs. open vs. swinger thing is fairly simple in concept but more complex in reality. The situation you describe here, I would consider open. You're only having a loving relationship with one person, but you're open to sex with others. You may also identify as poly (or one of the other 2 may), but this particular situation isn't really poly unless there are feelings other than lust and friendship in the second relationship.

However, some people don't really feel a difference between friendly love and romantic love, so if you are one of those people - it makes it more difficult to know where the line is. I personally experience something VERY different when I have romantic interest than when I am interested as purely friends.

Originally Posted by CielDuMatin

But is anybody suggesting that a post like "We have been monogamous all our lives. My boyfriend and I really want to have a threesome with another female. We have both agreed that neither of us will develop anything beyond the sexual stuff with her. how do we go about finding a suitable person?"

Now, I know this is an extreme case, and as some have said, for some having a sexual relationship usually means that feelings develop beyond that. But would most of us agree that this isn't poly? or am I off base?

If it's NOT poly, then where is the line?

I've noticed a few very similar to this. When pressed, they'll respond that "if feelings develop, we'd have to figure something out" or something of that sort instead of saying "yeah! We WANT (one or both of us) to fall in love!"

To me, that sort of outlook isn't necessarily poly. It may be coming from people on their way to poly, but they aren't quite there yet if they view emotions as an undesirable byproduct of sex.

I think the line is intent. If you are looking for someone who could eventually become a partner (whether it is primary, secondary, casual, serious, or whatever) but does include a loving, caring, not always sexual aspect then it would be a poly endeavor. If you are just looking for someone to have sex with and then move on, it's open (when solo) or swinging (when couple-centric). Obviously these are my personal thoughts.

[AutumnalTone]

Originally Posted by CielDuMatin

But is anybody suggesting that a post like "We have been monogamous all our lives. My boyfriend and I really want to have a threesome with another female. We have both agreed that neither of us will develop anything beyond the sexual stuff with her. how do we go about finding a suitable person?"

Has that popped up and I missed it?

I can say I'd rule that one off topic and delete it.

Please flag posts like that.

[MrFarFromRight]

Great OP! Thanks for bringing up this subject! I'll write more on this thread, but I'm already late for an appointment.

[MrFarFromRight]

I saw the title of this thread in "New Posts" and thought "I've got to go there!" Unfortunately, I was running late and left that last message partly as a tactic to bookmark this thread.

Several thoughts occur:

a) The first is a bit of a side issue: CielDuMatin, your title [which - as I wrote - has a hook that pulled me in] is hesitant, almost apologetic ["Is it just me"] and after 2 replies by one person, Mya, you write

Originally Posted by CielDuMatin

Like I said, it's probably me, and I'm probably way off-base. Based on your response, and the lack of response from anyone else, it's more than likely just me...

Come on! Lack of response? You wrote this less than 3 hours after that opening post. Give us some time! Some of us aren't hooked up 24/7 to the Internet, much less to this board. (This jab at you comes with a big dose of affection.) By now you'll have seen that several of us are interested in discussing this topic.

b) I can't, for myself, consider getting into a "sex with no chance of emotion" relationship. As NYCindie has pointed out, this does not adamantly rule out one-night stands, but there's got to be some love going on, even if you're never going to see that person again. And - for me - I always hope that it might develop into something longer. I don't condemn swinging, but I know that it's not for me.

c) I don't know if the trend is increasing. Due to restricted access to internet, I've been absent from the board - aside from quick peeks - for some time. But I've noticed right from the beginning that some people's interest seems mainly in sex. In some cases perhaps exclusively. I'm glad to see that a moderator's response to your suggestion of a post "We have been monogamous all our lives. My boyfriend and I really want to have a threesome with another female. We have both agreed that neither of us will develop anything beyond the sexual stuff with her. how do we go about finding a suitable person?" is

Originally Posted by AutumnalTone

Has that popped up and I missed it?

I can say I'd rule that one off topic and delete it.

Please flag posts like that.

I've seen posts with titles like "Kansas Couple Looking For Another Female For A Threesome". (Don't search this title, I wrote "titles like".) To me that reads more like something out of a contact mag, but perhaps I'm prejudging, because [see point f)].

d) Although the support I look for, the support I'm interested in offering, in short: my main interest in this board, are the emotional aspects (and the practical aspects of emotional issues) of polyamory, there are also sexual aspects that people need to deal with.

e) There are some - as Mya was the first on this thread to point out - who mix a bit of swinging with a bit of poly (and for me the two ARE definitely different). Since they don't shut out the potential of emotional involvement - and I would go even further and say "even if they consciously shut out that potential in limited cases, but are basically poly" - they are part of this community and if they need to talk about issues to do with the loveless-sex aspects of their whole poly-friendly existence, I think that's fair enough. Perhaps they should label this clearly, so that the rest of us know right from the start of a thread.

f) Arising from c) and e), I open up new posts that look like they have interest for ME. I sometimes open up friends' profiles -> statistics to see which threads people whom I find interesting have been commenting on recently. I may open up a post like the Kansas Couple one, but purely as a voyeur [I don't live in Kansas and I'm not a female]. In short, there's plenty on offer on this board for all interests.

I'd hate for the board to be swamped with sex, and I can share CDM's worries. If there IS a trend towards sex at the cost of emotion, we should address that. And for that, I thank you again for opening the topic.

[Mya]

Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight

e) There are some - as Mya was the first on this thread to point out - who mix a bit of swinging with a bit of poly (and for me the two ARE definitely different). Since they don't shut out the potential of emotional involvement - and I would go even further and say "even if they consciously shut out that potential in limited cases, but are basically poly" - they are part of this community and if they need to talk about issues to do with the loveless-sex aspects of their whole poly-friendly existence, I think that's fair enough. Perhaps they should label this clearly, so that the rest of us know right from the start of a thread.

Wow - now you're really putting words in my mouth and making me something I'm not. First of all, I'm not a swinger. Swingers are couples who have non-emotional sexual encounters with other people. I don't do that as a couple nor do I reject the possibility of developing feelings. And when you say I mix "swinging" with "a bit of poly" that makes it sound like I'm only a bit poly, but not really. If I have two partners that I love and am committed to and share my life with, but I also have a person that I have sex with, that I have a crush on, but that I don't love or am not committed to - that makes me somehow less poly than others? So that means that poly-fi is the real thing, more poly than open poly? You know, when you say things like "if they need to talk about issues to do with the loveless-sex aspects of their whole poly-friendly existence, I think that's fair enough", you sound quite condescending.

Then to a general point of this thread. I have to admit that I clearly didn't understand the OP's original point. That might be because I don't read the relationship corner much and the dating & friendships section even less. So if there really is a tendency toward "I'm looking for sex and nothing else", then no, that doesn't belong to a poly discussion board. But because I hadn't seen that many those kinds of threads, I thought the OP was referring to the sex-related topics here on general poly discussions or the gray areas of relationships that many of us have pointed out.

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by Mya

Wow - now you're really putting words in my mouth and making me something I'm not. First of all, I'm not a swinger.

Mya, I believe Mr. FFR was only saying that you were the first to point out in the thread that some folks do both poly and swinging. He wasn't saying that that is what you do. At least, that's how I read it.

[Mya]

Originally Posted by nycindie

Mya, I believe Mr. FFR was only saying that you were the first to point out in the thread that some folks do both poly and swinging. He wasn't saying that that is what you do. At least, that's how I read it.

Maybe that's what he meant, but actually I didn't say that either, I never used the word swinging before my last post. Some other people did though. Maybe I shouldn't get so caught up on specific words, but I just feel like there are way too many people who use the term swinging to replace the term open relationship. To me they are different things and I don't like being put in a category that I didn't put myself in. Swinging is exactly what I am not doing since for many people it means restricting emotions to protect the original couple and that's not how I roll.