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  #11  
Old 05-11-2012, 02:58 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is online now
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I love this forum because someone always brings up something that we have recently been discussing or has become suddenly relevant in our lives!

*****

I am a tremendous flirt. I flirt with everyone, all of the time. If I am interacting with you I am flirting with you. (And yet I am an INTJ...go figure! Apparently flirting fits into my comfort-zone of how to interact with people). For me flirting has very little to do with sexual attraction and more to do with opening up lines of communication. I flirt without regard to age, gender, sexual orientation or relationships status - with the notable exceptions of "single males" (with whom my flirting is WAY constrained if I get the feeling that they may take it "seriously" - a trait I apparently share with others) [For the record I DO wear my wedding band pretty much all of the time - I didn't realize that men actually note this - Dude says that he does religiously, MrS says that he never does - we think that this is because Dude is looking for potential partners and MrS is pretty much oblivious until a girl drags him off into the bushes for sex.]

My husband recently pointed out to me that the wives of our male friends may be view my flirtations with their husbands differently now that they see me as "actively poly" (because I have a husband and boyfriend who live with me ...whereas before? IDK - I was their slutty, flirty, married friend who happened to sleep with willing women-friends and flirt with everyone with a pulse?)

From my standpoint? Their husbands are still off-limits as potential partners (unless they, independently, choose to "open" their marriages), I still flirt with everyone I meet and am still open to "happy-fun-times" with girls that share my desires. Being with Dude did not change my fundamental personality and predilections any more than being with MrS did/does.

JaneQ

PS. Interesting side note, men don't seem to have nearly the problem with me flirting with their wives/girlfriends/significant others - with exactly ONE exception about 18 years ago (she was openly bi and their relationship was very new).
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Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe

Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 05-11-2012 at 03:21 AM.
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  #12  
Old 05-11-2012, 03:24 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckerPete View Post
In the last few years, I came to the conclusion that it took me so long to figure out I was bisexual because my female friends in high school and I used to flirt outrageously. It wasn't until some time later that I realized I was the only one who would've followed through on those flirts.
FTW! I was quite disappointed when the realization hit me that I when I was flirting "for real" with some girls, that they were flirting "for fun" (despite the fact that I am generally a "for fun" flirter - I think think there is a learning curve here that I was late to...)
__________________
Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe

Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 05-11-2012 at 03:27 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2012, 05:45 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatHappened View Post
I'm here as a result of a long-time friend recently letting me know, after I was divorced, that he has an open marriage and would like to date me. He worries frequently that I'll be shocked or turned off by the very different life he's led, but I have a great deal of respect for him in realizing that he has felt this way a long time, but never given any indication, never flirted with me in all these years we worked together, not even during the many months he knew the divorce was in progress. He even waited until a few months after it was final.
And... ???

Are you going to date him?
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2012, 02:36 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
And... ???

Are you going to date him?
I've been seeing him for just over four months. It's been interesting...to say the least...to see the way things are unfolding, changes he's making and realizations he's having as a result of seeing me, and things I'm learning, perhaps some cynicisms I'm overcoming (hopefully) about the world and men and people, as a result of seeing him. I think his friends and mine are all in shock, as we come from two completely different worlds and mindsets.
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  #15  
Old 05-11-2012, 03:17 PM
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DarayTala DarayTala is offline
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I've been involved with married people before, though never monogamous ones. If someone is in a monogamous relationship, they are completely off my radar. In fact, I get a little upset if someone who is in a monogamous relationship with someone else tries to pursue me (and I mean in a serious manner, not just flirting). I make it very clear, both online and in person, that I will not condone or support cheating in any way. If someone knows that and tries to cheat on their partner with me, I do get a bit offended that they would think I would want to be part of that. If someone is monogamous and begins to have feelings for me, or anyone else, and wants to pursue that outside of their relationship or marriage, I would encourage them to talk to their partner. I would also let them know that in doing so they have to accept that their partner may simply say no, that they are not okay with it. I've had people who when that happened have tried to cheat with me using the excuse that they tried to do it ethically first, and that is just not alright. I let people know now that if theyre partner says no, they need to accept that, or if being poly is more important then the relationship, they need to leave. Cheating is just plain wrong in my book though, and I will stay as far away from it as I possibly can.
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  #16  
Old 05-11-2012, 05:40 PM
ThatGirlInGray ThatGirlInGray is offline
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Originally Posted by DarayTala View Post
Cheating is just plain wrong in my book though, and I will stay as far away from it as I possibly can.
I think this is a good general rule, and certainly a good mindset to start from, but I no longer see cheating as such a black-and-white thing as I did, say, 10 years ago. I still think there are usually better options than cheating, but not everyone who cheats is automatically a bad person. There are so many shades of gray.

For instance, a good friend cheated on her husband. Yes, you can say it was wrong, and she certainly doesn't feel good about it, but ultimately it opened both her and her husband's eyes to how troubled their relationship really was. They spent a couple years working on things, going to counseling, etc. and then decided to get divorced. If she hadn't cheated, I wonder how much more time would have been spent (wasted!) with them both being miserable but unable to see what was happening in their marriage.

And then you have the married man (and good friend) I played with online at one point. At the time, he justified it as "no worse than porn" (which his wife isn't okay with either). Some people would say I shouldn't have agreed to be his "release" since his wife would NOT have been happy if she found out, but I didn't feel like that was my call to make. Playing with me online ultimately led him to realize how much he still loved his wife, recommit to his relationship with her and end that aspect of our relationship. I was fine with that. I certainly wasn't trying to steal him from her. Would it have been better if he could/would have talked to her directly? Probably, but again, not my call to make. Ultimately a trusted friend, who he knows will never use that time of uncertainty against him, helped him through a little bit of a midlife crisis. As far as the mistakes we make in life go, I think his (and possibly mine- it's not like I'd volunteer for the same situation again!) was pretty minor, and don't vilify either of us for it.

So while cheating isn't something to aspire to, I think it's less about the act of cheating itself and more about how you handle it afterward. If you're continually lying to a partner and hurting them, yes, that's bad. But slipping up and DEALING WITH IT proves you're human enough to make mistakes and mature enough to accept the consequences of your actions.
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  #17  
Old 05-11-2012, 06:26 PM
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DarayTala DarayTala is offline
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I definitely agree that cheating doesn't always result in a bad situation, and yes, people are human, they make mistakes. That said, the act of cheating which is in essence dishonesty, I can't say is right. I think that if someone does slip up (and I know I have in a past relationship), you should deal with it as constructively as possible and hope something good can come of it. A good result doesn't mean lying to your partner was okay, but it does show that you can handle things as a mature responsible adult and resolve things.

Personally though, I wouldn't want to be a part of that, even if it does result in a happy ending. I'm sure for everyone who helped somebody cheat and it ended well, there are a whole lot more who played a part in ruining a relationship. Plus, if I'm going to care for someone and get involved with them in any way (sexually, romantically, etc), I want to know they are an honest person. If I got close to them by them cheating on another partner, I don't think I would be able to trust that they would not do the same to me, and thats a risk to my emotional health and sexual safety that I just don't want to take.
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  #18  
Old 05-11-2012, 07:29 PM
chirolypoly chirolypoly is offline
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In answer to the original question: I'd keep my distance from someone in a committed, mono relationship.

I came out of lurking to comment on the flirting conversation, though. I'm floored. I've never really considered the "I'm wearing a ring, therefore I'm only joking." angle. I've always worried that women would think "He's wearing a ring, therefore he's a (wannabe) cheating #&^%#$." I always try really hard not to do it. Unfortunately, I am very flirtatious by nature.
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  #19  
Old 05-12-2012, 02:09 PM
WhatHappened WhatHappened is offline
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Originally Posted by DarayTala View Post

Personally though, I wouldn't want to be a part of that, even if it does result in a happy ending. I'm sure for everyone who helped somebody cheat and it ended well, there are a whole lot more who played a part in ruining a relationship. Plus, if I'm going to care for someone and get involved with them in any way (sexually, romantically, etc), I want to know they are an honest person. If I got close to them by them cheating on another partner, I don't think I would be able to trust that they would not do the same to me, and thats a risk to my emotional health and sexual safety that I just don't want to take.
Agreed.

I've done a lot of reading on this forum, including large parts of the thread on polyamory's image problem, and this attitude and the attitude of my friend (ie, being completely above board, respecting my marriage and monogamy, etc) are the things that give me respect.

As someone who has been through infidelity, through all the lies and mind games, as someone who still reads almost daily at the infidelity forum and sees firsthand the anguish and pain of betrayed spouses living in confusion, agitation, mistrust, betrayed spouses ending up in deep depressions and turning to EMDR therapy (which is used for post traumatic distress, just to give an idea of how awful the mind games of infidelity are)...because they don't know what's going on with their marriage, because they're trying to trust someone they believed was trustworthy; the feeling of betrayal, loss, disrespect, loss of self-worth, the realization that you are the disrespected, discounted, totally unvalued third wheel in your own marriage is devastating.

When children are involved, which more often than not there are, they go through the fights, the depressions, a parent mysteriously absent, and suffer right along with the betrayed spouse.

Many of these marriage do NOT end up better, but end up with the lives of the betrayed spouse and the children in shambles, financial devastation, having to upend their entire way of life, often enough having to relocate and leave friends and schools and activities, children having to adjust in quick order to a large number of changes and losses.

That some people come through the fire and wrest good from that horrible time and emotional trauma does not make it okay to put them through it in the first place.

And it is pointed out on the infidelity board over and over, exactly what you said: if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you. Over and over, members eventually report that their cheating spouse and the new person are all of a sudden having a falling out over lack of trust and...surprise...one of them cheating.
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  #20  
Old 06-14-2012, 02:28 AM
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Legion Legion is offline
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Default I wasn't always poly...

For me, poly was an evolution, a logical choice and one brought about by personal growth. I have no regrets in how I came to be poly, but I also would not have objected to having a conversation with a poly person back when I was mono, someone trying to show me the logic behind the philosophy. I believe that each person will grow in whatever direction they need to at the time they need to, so it is hard to tell someone something they don't already know, but still, I can't help but wonder.

I have definitely affected at least one person by introducing them to a poly way of life before they would have come to it on their own. I have also introduced people to poly with whom it did not work, but even in those instances we went our separate ways with new understandings.

As for married people or people in otherwise mono relationships, I say if the attraction is there, perhaps they aren't as mono as they think they are. I don't want to be a part of a deception, so if a monogamously engaged potential partner wants to pursue something with me, it needs to be above board. I have even been in a potentially romantic relationship where I was "putting on the brakes" for the sake of her partner who was having a hard time dealing with the idea of sharing his partner's affection with me. I had a "date" with him that lasted longer than my date with his partner!
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