When will you consider fluid bonding?

[tachycardia]

Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe

? - I don't see why the agreement would be any less likely to hold up in a Vee than any other arrangement. And I don't see why the "arms" would be more likely than the "hinge" to want to have unprotected sex - I would think it would depend on the gender and mono/polyness of the people involved. (i.e. I think men are statistically more likely than women to object to condoms and mono people aren't looking for outside sex anyway).

I agree with your observations about gender (& monogamy), but I still conjecture that closure to unprotected sex outside a fixed group is easier to maintain if there are no dangling ends. Pure conjecture, mind you. If the dangling ends are female or perfectly happy being mono, maybe you're right.

Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe

An interesting aside - contraception at this point would be a matter of negotiation between NewGirlfriend and MrS and ME - which I just realized as I was typing this. As MrS's legal wife I feel I should have some input regarding procreation. If MrS gets NewGirlfriend pregnant - he is legally responsible for child support etc., this affects our joint finances, etc. I have no legal responsibility for Dude's offspring. (Which is not saying that I wouldn't have an emotional, ethical, etc. responsibility - depending on my relationship with NewGirlfriend) And we should all be aware of the fact that accidents do happen and contraceptives do fail and we should address what happens if that happens while having these conversations.

Oh, yes, we are definitely far more concerned about contraception than STIs. Actually, my wife wanted to require me to get a vasectomy before we pursued multiple relationships at all, even with condoms. I was able to convince her to let me try out multiple relationships a bit before I made any quick decisions. A visit to the urologist is definitely on the agenda. An accidental pregnancy with another partner seems like a Vishnu-style world-destroying shit-storm.

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe

An interesting aside - contraception at this point would be a matter of negotiation between NewGirlfriend and MrS and ME - which I just realized as I was typing this. As MrS's legal wife I feel I should have some input regarding procreation.

Well, obviously, you really would only have input about how it would affect your husband and you, how you and he would handle that responsibility, what precautions he takes, etc. But you would have no say about what choices his girlfriend makes about her body, or if she gets preggers. That would be totally up to her. As I see it, anyway.

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by tachycardia

Actually, my wife wanted to require me to get a vasectomy before we pursued multiple relationships at all, even with condoms. I was able to convince her to let me try out multiple relationships a bit before I made any quick decisions.

I asked my ex if he would do that when we got engaged, and he agreed. Best decision ever. It was such an easy procedure, and worry-free.

[ViableAlternative]

Other.

At this point in my life, I will only fluid bond if the intended outcome is pregnancy, and I'm not exactly ready to have children in my life right now.

[JaneQSmythe]

Originally Posted by nycindie

Well, obviously, you really would only have input about how it would affect your husband and you, how you and he would handle that responsibility, what precautions he takes, etc. But you would have no say about what choices his girlfriend makes about her body, or if she gets preggers. That would be totally up to her. As I see it, anyway.

She, of course, has absolute control over her body and her decisions. However, it takes sperm to get pregnant. If hubs and I are not comfortable with whatever pregnancy precautions she is willing to tolerate then HIS sperm can be taken out of the equation. i.e. no sex if no mutually acceptable conclusion is reached. She can't unilaterally "decide" to get pregnant by my husband if he doesn't agree to the possibility. She has control over her body, and he has control over his - and HE takes my boundaries into consideration. If the "mutually acceptable conclusion" is that he gets a vasectomy, that is HIS decision as to whether he is willing to comply in order to have sex with her. If she decides to get pregnant she can use someone else's sperm to do so (which leaves hubs, and therefore me, off the hook for child support).

This actually came into play with Dude and I. MrS and I came to the conclusion that Dude and I could have unprotected sex IF Dude was willing to forego paternity rights should a pregnancy occur. He was, it did (and unfortunately ended in miscarriage - more about that here: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...967#post130967).

[DarayTala]

From what I've seen, I'm pretty strict with anything sexual, actually, very strict. If I'm going to do something that exchanges fluids I need to:
1. Trust the person to be honest
2. They must be tested.
3. They must not be involved with anyone else who has not been tested.
4. I must trust anyone else they are involved with who has been tested to not get involved with others who haven't been.

I know this is very restrictive, and I make sure anyone I get involved with is okay with this beforehand. We make sure any new partners are on board as well, I don't want to impose this on anyone unless they willingly accept it coming into a relationship with one or more of us. And while I know protection is an option, and a good one at that, it simply is not fullproof enough for me to be willing to be with someone who has sex with untested partners but uses condoms. I also REALLY detest condoms. I'm on birth control for a reason, and would rather not have sex at all, then to do so with a condom. If ever my partner wanted to play at a play party or event I might be willing to negotiate a one time thing where condoms were used, and that partner refrained from contact with any of us until enough time had passed and they were tested again though. Even then, its iffy, cause you can still catch something if a condom breaks during an infrequent playtime with someone. Honestly, my rules may be tough, but I'm just not willing to take the risk with my health and that of those I'm with, and if others cannot respect it, they don't need to get involved with us or can find ways to do so that do not involve fluid exchanging activities. This is what we are all comfortable with, so we stick to it.

[tachycardia]

Originally Posted by DarayTala

From what I've seen, I'm pretty strict with anything sexual, actually, very strict. If I'm going to do something that exchanges fluids I need to:
1. Trust the person to be honest
2. They must be tested.
3. They must not be involved with anyone else who has not been tested.
4. I must trust anyone else they are involved with who has been tested to not get involved with others who haven't been.

I know this is very restrictive, and I make sure anyone I get involved with is okay with this beforehand. We make sure any new partners are on board as well, I don't want to impose this on anyone unless they willingly accept it coming into a relationship with one or more of us. And while I know protection is an option, and a good one at that, it simply is not fullproof enough for me to be willing to be with someone who has sex with untested partners but uses condoms. I also REALLY detest condoms. I'm on birth control for a reason, and would rather not have sex at all, then to do so with a condom. If ever my partner wanted to play at a play party or event I might be willing to negotiate a one time thing where condoms were used, and that partner refrained from contact with any of us until enough time had passed and they were tested again though. Even then, its iffy, cause you can still catch something if a condom breaks during an infrequent playtime with someone. Honestly, my rules may be tough, but I'm just not willing to take the risk with my health and that of those I'm with, and if others cannot respect it, they don't need to get involved with us or can find ways to do so that do not involve fluid exchanging activities. This is what we are all comfortable with, so we stick to it.

That's great. I value your sharing your approach to this issue. I'm starting to regret offering "other" as one of the responses in the poll, though. What do you think would be a rough estimate of how long it takes for your criteria, especially 1 & 4, to be satisfied?

[DarayTala]

It depends on the person. My fiance and I became fluid bonded within a couple months, but then he also had never had any sexual contact at all before, so testing wasn't an issue. I didn't do anything involving fluid exchange with my partner Lady until about eight months, although I did trust her earlier on, I just wanted to wait until I was completely comfortable. I would say normally, assuming there was a friendship before the relationship and some trust already, I would say it normally takes anywhere from one to four months for me to get to that point with people. Although I also do insist that I see test results no matter what my level of trust with the person. It makes me feel safer, and it also makes my other partners feel more at ease, because they may not trust or be as close to the new person yet.

[redpepper]

There are a lot of threads on "fluid bonding" in case anyone is interested in a tag search.

Mono and I are fluid bonded, PN and I are not and I am not with Derby. For me it depends on the partner and the sex we have... also how important it is to them and me. To me and Mono is was very important as we like to have no-barriers-what-so-ever-sex. We like our freedom in bed and I don't think I would ever want to jeopardize how amazing that is with him. So I am careful with others... even with my husband.

It will be interesting when PN has his vasectomy soon. I don't know where we will be at after that. Its been 13 years of condoms. I would just carry on as it always has been... need some discussion around expectations I think.

[tachycardia]

So, for those who said "0-3 months" or "Other," how certain are you of the size of the group of people to whom you are concurrently exposed? How many people are in that group? If the group became larger, how would you be notified? Does anyone in the group have unprotected anal sex? Or are you just relying on a piece of paper that said your partner was negative several months ago?